The Lawsuits Have Started In Virgina

[RIKKI TIKKI]

I was trying to remember what the disc cost was for those early cdg's, but can only vaguely remember what I paid for the early DK's, BMB's, then Music Maestro, Priddus, Sound Choice, Sunfly, American Gold, Dangerous, Hellavadisc, Star Disc, Chartbuster, Etc., Etc., Etc. ( Not to mention the 5 or 6 Manus that I get my Spanish cdg's from.)

I estimated it at $2/song, quite a few years back, and with my meager 13,000 song library ( with about 3500 duplicates ) that would set me back at least $20,000 over the last 17 years, which doesn't seem that bad, until you try to justify starting up in the business today, and wanting to have a huge library to start, and that illegal hardrive with 20,000 songs on it over there on E-Bay for $300.00, and I can see where the nubies would go, before weighing the legalities, or knowing what legal remedies that Sound Choice is now persuing, in order to recap some of their lost revenue.

I can sleep at night knowing that I'm legal, but will jump on anyone's band wagon, that will make it harder for the Pirate's to make a living, by undercutting the legit KJ's. I'll start by showing the club owners/mgmt, what Sound Choice is doing, as it goes after the venue also, if they are knowingly hiring a KJ with an illegal set of discs, or hardrive, and then as a last resort, I would turn in the illegal KJ to the Sound Choice Legal team, and still be able to sleep easily about it. I'll let my hosting skills compete for business against another legit KJ, but I'll also play nasty when it comes to some pirate trying to take the money out of my wallet...

[RandyMcCharles]

Interesting point on new startups. I don't know of any around here. All of the KJs have been around for years or work for "Karaoke World" who owns and maintains a large amount of gear including CDG racks (bought at wholesale as they also own the city's only karaoke retail store). The newest independant KJ I know bought her system from a retiring KJ at a good price. The other independants have been around for decades. If I were to 'start out' from scratch it would take decades just to recoup the initial outlay for a good track selection. I think if producers like Sound Choice 'really' wanted to promote legitimate business they would provide their catalog as 'lease to buy' in order to reduce the initial outlay for a startup.

[Lonman]

Originally Posted by RIKKI TIKKI

I was trying to remember what the disc cost was for those early cdg's, but can only vaguely remember what I paid for the early DK's, BMB's, then Music Maestro, Priddus, Sound Choice, Sunfly, American Gold, Dangerous, Hellavadisc, Star Disc, Chartbuster, Etc., Etc., Etc. ( Not to mention the 5 or 6 Manus that I get my Spanish cdg's from.)

I estimated it at $2/song, quite a few years back, and with my meager 13,000 song library ( with about 3500 duplicates ) that would set me back at least $20,000 over the last 17 years, which doesn't seem that bad, until you try to justify starting up in the business today, and wanting to have a huge library to start, and that illegal hardrive with 20,000 songs on it over there on E-Bay for $300.00, and I can see where the nubies would go, before weighing the legalities, or knowing what legal remedies that Sound Choice is now persuing, in order to recap some of their lost revenue.

I can sleep at night knowing that I'm legal, but will jump on anyone's band wagon, that will make it harder for the Pirate's to make a living, by undercutting the legit KJ's. I'll start by showing the club owners/mgmt, what Sound Choice is doing, as it goes after the venue also, if they are knowingly hiring a KJ with an illegal set of discs, or hardrive, and then as a last resort, I would turn in the illegal KJ to the Sound Choice Legal team, and still be able to sleep easily about it. I'll let my hosting skills compete for business against another legit KJ, but I'll also play nasty when it comes to some pirate trying to take the money out of my wallet...

When I started buying music, cdg's weren't prevelant up here yet, still laserdiscs - those ran 120-150 PER disc for 28 songs.
DK, SC, MM were the first ones in this are and those discs ran approx $45-50 per disc for 15-18 songs - depending on brand. Even the 'cheaper' brands of today ran around $30 each disc. This was back in 93-95.

[Musicman51]

No you get copies of the discs they still produce, and need to delete anything that is discontinued - and look for a used copy like any other 'legal' kj would.

used disc? ummmm...yeah

[Musicman51]

You see folks....this is the exact thing i was talking about. If this happened to me and my club. I would run to my lawyers office. And this can happen to you. I just posted about a persons reputation. The lawyers of sound choice made a statement? Where are the sleps during this? This is the perception i was talking about. You will see much much more of this. This is a case of where the "investigators" never...never even stepped foot into this establishment. Whose the crooks here? I am actually starting to be ashamed of even associating myself with the karaoke industry because of the bad shoddy practices of a select few. The more i read about this mess the more it's starting to....

http://m.wbir.com/detail.jsp?key=113776&rc=ne&full=1

[RandyMcCharles]

No you get copies of the discs they still produce

So you do get the discs. For .75 a song. I would have loved to have paid .75 per song for the discs I bought. So what SC is telling me is that if I had stolen their music first then they would then sell it to me at a huge discount, but if I wanted to come by it honestly I have to pay retail like everyone else.
This reminds me of when I (a Canadian) gratuated from a US university and applied for a work visa and was told I could not get one unless I worked illegally in the US for 2 years first (and not paid taxes).
This sounds like another example of where the honest guy gets the shaft while the pirate gets the soft touch.

[Lonman]

Originally Posted by RandyMcCharles

So you do get the discs. For .75 a song. I would have loved to have paid .75 per song for the discs I bought. So what SC is telling me is that if I had stolen their music first then they would then sell it to me at a huge discount, but if I wanted to come by it honestly I have to pay retail like everyone else.

But again the kicker is, they must delete & not use anything there is no original disc for. Plus the fact that many discs are not produced anymore, - so they must drop their copy of 8125 & 8148 & anything with Pearl Jam & anything with Soundgarden, etc.... so a pirates 100K library is going to drop to a more level playing field with many other kj's with approx 10K (or less) songs and probably less desireable as many kj's that have been at it a while still have these discs and the more desireable songs people want. So this host had better have been good to begin with rather than relying on his huge illegal library, because they no longer have that to fall back on as a lure.

[RandyMcCharles]

Discontinued discs is a problem outside of piracy. You have a good point that a pirate who missed the opportunity to buy a disc before it was discontinued cannot go legit and keep the bootlegged tracks. But even legit buyers cannot get a disc once it is no longer available. I mentioned in another thread that all Canadian manufacturers are now out of business (not due to piracy but due to rising license fees). I would love to buy the Karaokemakers Trooper CDG but cannot even find a used disc for love or money. Very little Canadian music that did not top US charts was ever produced as karaoke and currently exactly zero is.

[Lonman]

Originally Posted by Musicman51

used disc? ummmm...yeah

The discs that are offered in the settlement are new.
Anything else that is discontinued, they need to delete & if they want that disc must search high & low like any other kj - chances are finding a 'used' disc that has been discontinued. I buy used discs all the time off of customers that no longer want them for their own library. Nothing wrong with that.

[RIKKI TIKKI]

Originally Posted by Lonman

When I started buying music, cdg's weren't prevelant up here yet, still laserdiscs - those ran 120-150 PER disc for 28 songs.
DK, SC, MM were the first ones in this are and those discs ran approx $45-50 per disc for 15-18 songs - depending on brand. Even the 'cheaper' brands of today ran around $30 each disc. This was back in 93-95.

I came into the industry a couple of years after the laserdiscs, but the first karaoke shows I saw ( too shy to try in those days ) used them, and I can remember all the background video, and remembered commenting to my girlfriend that the video made it distracting from the lyrics for the singer, but entertained the rest of the audience (especially those that weren't singing).

I ran a bowling center in a small town on the Arizona/Mexico border, that needed some entertainment in a small underused lounge, and remembered Karaoke that I had seen a couple of years earlier, and checked into several formats for Karaoke entertainment for this small venue... I do remember the cost of a Karaoke jukebox that included 25 laserdiscs, directly from Japan, that could be leased or bought. If you bought the turn key version the retail price was a cool $20,000 smackers... my owner didn't go for it...lol. So I hired a KJ from a nearby town, and paid him $200 / night... more than I should have paid( but still made a meager profit in the beginning ), but he was good ( and the profit margin increased quite a bit ), and tought me alot about the business, indirectly, as I am a quick study, and loved to sing... he left for a town farther away, after a couple of months, and I decided that maybe I could KJ, along with the other 3 or 4 hats I wore at this bowling alley (sic), and convinced the owner to lend me $2000 and I would purchase the Karaoke equipment, and do the shows for free for two years, in order to pay off the loan... I'm still Hosting after 15 years, and still have the original gear in storage, including the JVC cdg player that I originally bought, and also a Hitachi player that I bought as a backup, since JVC discontinued their cdg player, and I needed a backup, for my home studio, and show, in case the JVC died...

I have some original receipts for the DK, and Sound choice discs I purchased ( on sale ) for $32.95 in 1996. My original cdg start up set in 1995 was included in the purchase of a turnkey setup, that included a new player(JVC), new mixing amp, and 4 used Pioneer speakers and stands, and 3 corded mics, and cables for every piece of gear. Plus 25 various cdg's of my choosing, and I think they retailed at $39.95 for the ones that I selected... All for the cool price of $1,850.00 delivered from Chicago...

I didn't quite know what I was getting into, once all the new manufacturers started producing the same songs, so I experimented with different manus, and after a lot of trial and error, and duplication, I eventually stuck with Sound Choice as my manu of preference, and didn't deviate, until Pop Hits Monthly started producing new songs faster than Sound Choice, and I bought quite a lot of new songs that my clients were requesting, even though I would have rather waited for the Sound Choice cdg, the timeliness of their releasing new music, was putting me in a bind with my regulars, that started wondering why they could sing those new songs, on their visits to Karaoke shows in the bigger towns, but I was always waiting to purchase the Sound Choice version... it was because I could count on the quality, and not duplicate too many songs in the process.

Ah! The good ol' days...

[RandyMcCharles]

Not sure if the PM worked or not, but sent you a link where you can get that Trooper disc.

Thanks Lonman. I got the link and am following up. I called every place I could find that listed it a couple of years ago and they were out, but i don't think I saw this place.

[RandyMcCharles]

Trooper disc

Truly amazing. Of the Karaokemaker line that is the 1 CDG they have in stock. I have order it and it is on its way. The CGD has been unavailable for several years, being the 1st title karaokemaker dropped due to rising license fees. I bought all their other discs before they closed shop so this make the collection not only complete, but is one of the best disc karaokemaker put out. Lonman, I owe you a drink.

[Lonman]

Originally Posted by RandyMcCharles

Truly amazing. Of the Karaokemaker line that is the 1 CDG they have in stock. I have order it and it is on its way. The CGD has been unavailable for several years, being the 1st title karaokemaker dropped due to rising license fees. I bought all their other discs before they closed shop so this make the collection not only complete, but is one of the best disc karaokemaker put out. Lonman, I owe you a drink.

See even discontinued & hard to find discs CAN be found.
If you ever come across a Sound Choice 8148 (used is fine), let me know - I want a back up for mine as it has a small crack in the center.

[RandyMcCharles]

turnkey setup

It seems to me that this would be a good approach to reducing piracy. If the manufacturer leased an updatable closed system a KJ could have a broad selection without a huge startup cost. PVRs currently do that to reduce video piracy. My PVR has a Terabyte drive so I can record lots of licensed broadcasts, but the system is closed so I can't move the video files to other drives. I think CAVS may be moving in this direction but haven't really been paying much attention as I am firmly entrenched in CDG imported to Hoster.

[Musicman51]

From what i understand, from a very good source. Down around the greater chicago area. Clubs are no longer hiring KJ's with "computer hard driven presentation systems." It started actually with the DJ's, now includes kj's as well. They tell them to go home get their disc and come back and see'um. Guess who this hurts besides us kj's? Now i can't verify this, but it does come from what i consider a very very reliable person. Trickle down effect? we'll see.....
P.S. I want to thank everyone who reads this forum, and the dj forum,non members alike. And those that have found my email address somehow and sent me emails. But what do you expect me to do about this mess? Further i have no interest at the present time in being a spokes person for anyone.

[Lonman]

Originally Posted by Musicman51

From what i understand, from a very good source. Down around the greater chicago area. Clubs are no longer hiring KJ's with "computer hard driven presentation systems."

Sad thing is computers in general are not illegal, a kj using discs but running a program like Hoster for the show - using it as a disc player only, not a hard drive player, still gives the kj all the computer bells & whistles as far as scrolling marquee, rotation, music, instabuttons, etc,.....but keeps it to the clubs expectations if they require the kj to use discs only.