Legal or illegal

[muzicman144]

The KIAA has the president of Stellar Records, who did produce CDG's, on record as stating that Stellar Records is of the opinion no downloading of CDG song files to a computer is legal or has been deemed legal by any US Law. I guess that is just what it is, an opinion.
It would be a good thing if the law makers or breakers could come up with a thorough legal hearing and decide what is or is not legal in this downloading process. It seems to be worked out pretty well on non CDG downloading as there are many websites to download from. Only in the CDG side is where there is apparently a licensing problem.
muzicman144

[BooBoo]

I get the distinct feeling that the KIAA opinion is based on what they feel is best for "them". When they get into the download market, I am guessing their opinion will change.

Besides, if all the players are in the download market, who will want to fight it? Laws are only challenged when there are two sides. If all the players are in the download market, and it seems to be heading in that direction, then the "law" isn't an issue. Even if one roague decides to challenge, there are several players that can be used to refute the challenge.

Downloads seem to be here to stay and the KIAA is going to be the lone duck. They best change their stance soon if they want any support at all.

[Lonman]

Originally Posted by BooBoo

Besides, if all the players are in the download market, who will want to fight it?

But all the players (assuming you mean the manus) have stated that when they go download, the downloads will not be legal to use for commercial purposes - ie karaoke in a bar.

[BooBoo]

Originally Posted by Lonman

But all the players (assuming you mean the manus) have stated that when they go download, the downloads will not be legal to use for commercial purposes - ie karaoke in a bar.

They all state that now on their CDs too, don't they? I think that's to cover them in case of "resale" (ie, included on 500,000 song drives).

[Lonman]

Originally Posted by BooBoo

They all state that now on their CDs too, don't they? I think that's to cover them in case of "resale" (ie, included on 500,000 song drives).

No they state on the cdg's that unauthorized public performance prohibited - if the club is paying ASCAP/BMI etc, then it is no longer unauthorized. Not sure about ascpa but bmi has karaoke option in their contract/application.

[RandyMcCharles]

I emailed Karaoke-Version asking about burning their downloads to CDG and singing from them in a karaoke bar. The short answer is that if the bar or KJ has an entertainment license it is legal. (The long answer is much longer as they provide music for more than just karaoke singers. Musicians are a large share of their market. There is also the question of the stance of individual jurisdictions since music licensing in general is in upheaval.) I did not ask about using their product as a karaoke host (since I am not a karaoke host) but I assume the answer is the same since the host or bar is paying enterainment fees. As a karaoke singer, singing from personally purchased karaoke msuic, I think I also have 'fair use' rules in my favor.

[ddouglass]

I believe you are right. I believe that Canada, the UK and Australia all require KJ to be licensed, where in the US it is the venues that have to have the licenses.

[muzicman144]

Originally Posted by RandyMcCharles

I emailed Karaoke-Version asking about burning their downloads to CDG and singing from them in a karaoke bar. The short answer is that if the bar or KJ has an entertainment license it is legal. (The long answer is much longer as they provide music for more than just karaoke singers.

Seems to me there are two issues here. Most clubs have paid their dues to ASCAP-BMI, etc., but the karaoke issue seems to be treated a little differently. Seems someone is seeing extra dollars to someone's pocket where karaoke is concerned. I don't see the bars and clubs playing live music getting the attention karaoke places are getting as far as legality of the music is concerned, only if its recorded, but most pro bands now use some tracks in their shows. This is never addressed.
I use karaoke tracks to do a one man show, which puts me under the eye of the karaoke police, but, what if i used my band to record tracks, made a cdg out of it, how would that be different from a live band playing the same song in the same venue. NOW i realize i have recorded the track, but am not selling the track, but using it to make money, in reality doing the same as a band. Or if i used my synthesizer to do all the backup and played it live as a band does.
As one can see, this is something that will take more than the KIAA, SoundChoice lawsuits, etc. is doing to clear up.
most of you just address the karaoke legality and i understand that, but, we are all in the same boat when it docks in court.
muzicman144

[mindonstrike]

Originally Posted by muzicman144

... but, what if i used my band to record tracks, made a cdg out of it, how would that be different from a live band playing the same song in the same venue...
muzicman144

The one big difference that causes most of the karaoke problems is that karaoke displays copyrighted lyrics to the public. Bands usually do not display the lyrics. Lyrics and music are 2 totally separate issues.

In the U.S, ANYONE can record a song and sell it as long as they pay the licensing fee to the person(s) that hold the rights to it, whether the rights holders like it or not. Thats why companies that make backing tracks can make anything you are willing to pay for.

Including written lyrics is a whole nuther story. If the rights holder to the lyrics won't give permission to record the lyrics (in written form) or display them in public, you are stuck. To make matters worse, if they give permission and then later change their mind, the cdg manufacturer has to stop making cdg's with those songs on them.

[muzicman144]

[quote=mindonstrike;96915]The one big difference that causes most of the karaoke problems is that karaoke displays copyrighted lyrics to the public. Bands usually do not display the lyrics. Lyrics and music are 2 totally separate issues.

This is exactly what i'm attempting to stress here. Now i don't offer lyrics to the public, even using a Chartbuster track, or using a homemade track made with my band and KHPro. I am a one man show, no one sees my lyrics or my teleprompter. Unless you get on stage with me, you don't know what i'm using. But that apparently doesn't excuse me like it does a live band, even when they use some tracks to back up their sound, and most road bands do that now.
muzicman144