This isn't fun anymore!

[Robster]

4.06 works for me on Vista (and many others now )seems they have figured it out.

[WaltR]

Well so far so good with 4.06. I'll be doing a show tomorrow night. I have to admit, I am a little nervous but hopefully the bugs have been worked out.

This probably has been discussed somewhere along the line but I'll ask anyway. Has MTU ever considered offering products for Apple? There must be some reason I am not aware of. Just wondering.

[ddouglass]

Walt it would require a whole different program to do it. This would mean developing all of the code from the ground up as Mac and the processors for Mac use a totally different set of commands from the Intel processors. You would be talking about a couple hundred thousand dollors to develop it. I don't think the market is there to support that kind of commitment.
Glad to see that 4.06 is working for you. If you have any problems or glitches be sure to post them in here so we can either figure it out or MTU can find the bug if it isn't something fixable by tweaking.

[Robster]

I believe that you can run XP or vista on a mac using bootcamp http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/BootCamp

In fact i believe leopard the new OS for mac has Bootcamp as standard http://www.apple.com/macosx/features/bootcamp.html

EVERY new mac now also use Intel processors too.
http://www.apple.com/intel/

I have never used bootcamp its just what i have read so you might be able to run hoster on a new mac

[admin]

WaltR, you are not alone in being frustrated and afraid. You all know MTU's history of dedication to perfection, and you know Hoster WAS the premier product for years... AND is now again with 4.06 AND the Vista CHANGES that make that beast behave. The votes are coming in from earlier upgraders and I couldn't be happier to hear the "it works" messages.

We first released Hoster 4.00 on July 17th. Today, that was 98 days ago. We have done 6 new releases since July 17th... one of the fastest evolutions we have ever done. To say we are dedicated... doesn't begin to describe the urgency we have been working at. We have slaughtered our other product developments to focus on Hoster and get things working reliably again.

I am confident that with the positive feedback we are now getting on 4.06, and the changes we have identified that are REQUIRED to make Vista behave, Hoster is again stable for Vista. For those of you upgrading on XP, you ABSOLUTELY MUST make all Windows Upgrades using the CUSTOM selection, not EXPRESS. CUSTOM reviews YOUR computer, and suggests everything that YOUR computer needs to be upgraded with. It is EXTREMELY RARE that any customer has complained that making ALL the Windows Updates damaged their computer. Furthermore, I can say that when that happens, THEIR COMPUTER already had some problems (bad memory, low power supply capacity that craps out when Videos play, etc.) that were later identified, but never posted in the Forums.

One of our Beta Testers has a very small specialty portable "shoebox" computer with a very underpowered power supply. He upgraded ONLY the CPU chip, and everything went down the tubes! He reinserted the old CPU chip and everything ran OK again. The underpowered PS couldn't drive the new chip. That is ONLY ONE example of what we have heard of in all our Vista woes... that wasn't related to Vista!

Originally Posted by Skybird74

I've been using Vista all year & I've had some problems, but nothing like you are talking about. First of all, if you're going to upgrade, you should not Un-install first, but just upgrade. You should also SAVE all your downloads in your Download folder so you always have whatever you need at any given time. I have gone back & forth from 4.0x & back to 3.321, then up to 4.03, to 4.05 and now to 4.06 and have not had any trouble with registrations. You can't blame everything on MTU.

MTU had problems with 4.0 too, which is why they worked so hard to get it right - I belive 4.06 is the answer to everyone's problems!

And, when all else fails, as long as you have an older copy of Hoster still on your computer that worked for you, as a last resort you can also use Window System Restore, while you're waiting on new registration codes.

You go girl!

Yes, we are still including Hoster 3.40 which IS the identical byte for byte code as 3.321a, with the exception it uses the new 4.0 RegCode to run it. So, if you get in trouble, you can still return to 3.40 and continue the show.

If that won't work right, your computer has some other problem that has nothing to do with MTU and Hoster.... but we catch all the blame for junk computer problems too!!!

Originally Posted by ddouglass

Unfortunately a lot of the changes to Hoster have also involved all of us having to get our computers more up-to-date because of the increased demands by all of those nice features everyone has wanted. There is a sigificantly increased memory demand, video memory demand and more current versions of Internet Explorer, .net Framework and Windows Media Player just to name a few. Version 4 has been a massive change for them and a lot of code has had to be totally rewritten to accomidate all these additions. When you do that it takes a lot of time and not everything is going to be right from the beginning.

Dale is SOOOOO right. We made 153 changes from 3.321a to 4.06. That is MASSIVE, and there are LOTS of new features, and "platform upgrades" to support yet to come new features, such as Tempo change. We tried to do too much all at once, and... Microsoft through us a Vista Monkey Wrench (broken to boot) on top of everything that we never expected. When a Technology SHIFT happens, there is nothing we can do but conform to it.

The same thing happened when Plextor dis continued making good CDR drives with the CDG hardware decoder chip (they were the last to discontinue... Sony, Yamaha, HP, Teac... all discontinued years earlier). Without our scrambling to finish our 3 year project to develop the worlds best Software CDG Decoder (and we HAVE IT!!!), MTU would have gone out of business.

For those of you who believe your $69.99 upgrade payment would keep MTU in business, you are sorely mistaken. ALL the Hoster upgrades cumulative for 3 months hasn't paid for even a single month of MTU fixed and development expenses.

FACT: We've been MOSTLY on Hoster since August, 2007; FULL TIME including an external programmer consultant since Feb 2008. If we didn't support NEW sales on Vista (forced on you and us), we'd be out of business long before July 17's 4.00 release!

Originally Posted by ddouglass

A separate release for XP and Vista would not solve anything as you would still be waiting for more of those new features to be added because they would still be spending a greta deal of time getting the Vista version working right. Hoster currently recognizes whether you are using XP or Vista and uses code required for that OS, so within on setup you have both capabilities.

So true! The delays in the 4.0 development since Aug 2007 have been many. I have 40 years of PROFESSIONAL product developments expertise. I have a billion dollar product in my history (I coined the WYSIWYG acronym everyone uses today... in 1973), in 1973 we were the first in the world to load software from a Floppy Disc into a microcomputer... and MTU was the first in the world to develop a Digital Audio Workstation... we are the Godfather of the whole DAW industry. Many of the simple audio features you enjoy every day were pioneered with MTU "BLEEDING EDGE" technology in the early '70s. Only by God's grace... I know what I'm doing.

However, sometimes you bite off more than you expect. Then too, along comes the "UNK UNKs" (Unknown Unknowns) that blindside you. The Microsoft .NET changes we HAD TO conform to... and WMP11 that DOESN'T PLAY VIDEOS right on Vista (why our "NEW" video player failed)... and oh yes... VISTA being forced on the Universe!!

Yeah, we caught some curve balls this go round. Will I do it again? In a skinny-minute cause that's what I do... it's my God given talent.

I also should say I have never been so humiliated by the problems my clients... YOU HONORED FOLKS... have been put through in Hoster 4.0. Some nights I just went home and cried from the hurt I felt.

Our Beta Testing team has worked tirelessly day and night. We slammed them with 49 Beta Release Versions of 4.00 alone, and most of the others (4.1-4.6) had 5 or more Beta Versions too. We truly have burned out some who have dropped out of testing with us. Too keep up the testing quality (and quantity) I had to find some new helpers who have brought a wonderful new spirit back to our team. Since Aug '07, one Tester's husband died, and 2 now are fighting cancer and chemo treatment. What an HONOR it is to hear they have even downloaded our Beta Release to install, much less spend their precious brain power (what's left after the chemo) on serving us... and you. But then you all are not aware of their sacrifice. I am........................................

So you see, some of us working on Hoster 4.0 have made significant life sacrifices to gain the ground you are now standing on. To me... it is sacred ground.

Many early Users also have aided incredibly. Sometimes a small fact is "thrown out" in the Forums that is the key to what to fix. If no one downloaded, ran, failed and never reported back to us, we wouldn't be here today.

Our "early buyers" have also made significant sacrifice. At one point, for a week I raised the $69.99 to $170 for 2 reasons; 1) the support demands of "later upgraders" are much higher than early adopters, and 2) the sacrifice the early adopters made that helped up solve problems should have been compensated in some way and raising the price (so they got a discount) seemed the only way I could HONOR THEM! The outcry from the "late adopters" was too great for me to take... so with a heavy heart, I lowered the price back down to $69.99.

It is very hard being a Product Developer, but my drive has always been to do the very best I can. I'm not giving up... we have years of spec yet to develop.

Originally Posted by Robster

They seem to be going in the right direction with 4.06 ! i too had 4.03 then problems with 4.04 so much so i didnt even download 4.05 as i saw peeps with problems but last night i downloaded 4.06 and fingers crossed ..it looking that i can do a show with it with vista.

4.06 works for me on Vista (and many others now )seems they have figured it out.

Robster, thank you for this post. As I have said above, it is many users and our Beta Testers also, in addition to MTU staff who have tirelessly worked to identify how to make Vista work right.

In every product development, there is a point where the reported problems reach down into the "noise" level. That can only occur when the CLANGING CYMBOLIC bugs are all gone. The BIGGY problems swamp out the little nitty ones. We have been fixing nitty ones for 3 releases now, so we KNEW we were on the right track. Once we included our "MUST DO" Vista changes page when you are installing 4.06... info provided at the moment of "need to know"... we knew the Sun was about to rise on Hoster 4. You are confirming it has.

Originally Posted by rickyrey

I think that Vista is like the ME version, that really was trash. They do this so they can sell more OS.

Well said my friend, well said. ME was truly worth erasing from History. However, the magnitude of DAMAGE Vista has done to the world, and the software development community will NEVER be forgotten..... Microsoft has lost it's Gilded Crown. We all will be reviewing the options to deliver working "solutions" to our customers.

Originally Posted by WaltR

Well so far so good with 4.06. I'll be doing a show tomorrow night. I have to admit, I am a little nervous but hopefully the bugs have been worked out.

This probably has been discussed somewhere along the line but I'll ask anyway. Has MTU ever considered offering products for Apple? There must be some reason I am not aware of. Just wondering.

WaltR, thanks for not giving up on us! I am truly elated to hear your POSITIVE results. I pray we will regain your respect and confidence again with 4.06.

We have been working very hard in the background on Hoster 4.10, and Microstudio 4.10 also. We have some really great features coming out, but we had to finish some critical "under the hood" upgrades before we can add the new bells and whistles on our Hoster "vehicle". We too are excited to be moving forward again.

Apple.... we were a major Apple AUDIO vendor in 1977... shipping 500 Apple DACs a month... until I listened to criticism from Steve Jobs et al. We modified our hardware design based on their "demands" to get their approval... only to find the Apple was a piece of garbage, never to be expanded!!! MTU nearly folded from the rework of thousands of cards that were failing in Apple computers... that had Apple's required change. We reworked them BACK to our original design that DID work, and ignored Apple's shortcomings.

I have a VERY BAD TASTE in my history with Steve Jobs and Apple. IF... they continue to not screw their customers with high priced junk, and adopt Windows and support it faithfully, then... maybe we'll consider.

However, to support a DIFFERENT computer and OS... is more than any small business can sustain. I'm more interested in providing you a solution, and staying around to continue supporting you, than supporting Apple. Also, they still only have 5-6% of the computer market... no matter what you may be led to believe.

Pray Microsoft's next OS will return to simplicity and reason. They will never stop the hackers and viruses hitting those who don't use a Virus checker and Firewall such as Zonealarm. They tried with Vista, after doing everything wrong. Wall Street has punished them for it, and so will the marketplace of their "customers".

Let's all pray that Hoster 4.06 IS the answer, and returns your confidence to boldly run your shows to please YOUR customers! That's what HOSTer is all about anyway!

Have a GREAT day!!!!!!!

[madjim- with the Lord]

Originally Posted by admin

So you see, some of us working on Hoster 4.0 have made significant life sacrifices to gain the ground you are now standing on. To me... it is sacred ground.

This could not have been said any better and I hope that every member of the forum will keep it in mind, we are walking on sacred ground! I pray that the MTU forum is a place where folks can come and get solutions to their problems without having to read a bunch of bickering, whining, crying and complaining. (I am not refering to this thread.)

I personally am offended when somebidy comes on this forum and starts slamming MTU or their employees or their beta testers, for any reason. A long time Hoster user (or any user) has no right right to desicrate this holy ground. The MTU forum should be a professional place to get get reliable answers, not a boxing ring. (It's sad to say that I have three forum members on my ignore list because they can't post without saying or implying something negative about MTU.)

If we all have respect for the ground we walk on here on the MTU forum, there will be no reason for any neagative activity, IMHO.

R E S P E C T.......... find out what it means to me.

Thanks for keeping MTU's standards high!

Jim

P.S. Admin, if you feel this post will offend, please delete it. Slamming MTU on this forum ia an acticity that needs to be stoped in my opinion, it's very disrespecful. I appreciate you and all of the folks at MTU, thanks again.

[Skybird74]

[quote=madjim;84513]
If we all have respect for the ground we walk on here on the MTU forum, there will be no reason for any negative activity, IMHO.

R E S P E C T.......... find out what it means to me.
Thanks for keeping MTU's standards high!
Jim


Well said.

[sleflar]

Hoster 4 series has created numerous problems for us in the market not to mention office labor. I have several offices in Northern CA. The vast majority of our computers (both Laptop & Desktop) are Vista. We supply entertainment both live & non live.

I sent out the instructions to all of our DJ/KJ's from your website on the procederures to install 4.06. Twenty Three of them do not have the understanding enough to perform the list for the install. I instructed them all to stick with 4.03, which is the only version that seems to have the least problems. I don't hire them for there computer knowledge.

We don't use XP because using Virtual DJ and Hoster together, the XP OS doesn't handle the music videos very well compared to Vista. (freezing etc)

Using Hoster is a great selling tool at clubs and has served us well in the past. With the 4 series I ask all my people to use 3.40 until the problems are sorted out.

What I'd like to see is the old version 3 series offered on the website at the old price for those of us that just don't trust the 4 series.

Thanks guys.

www.northbayentertainment.com
www.starsoundsproductions.com

[ddouglass]

Are you saying they can't folow the step by step instructions included with the installation on what to change in Vista to make Hoster 4 work correctly? MTU has made the instructions as easy to follow as they can be. How do they remember what they have to do to log in to the computer? It is just as simple. Sounds like you need to hire an IT tech to set up and maintain your computers.
And 4.06 has fixed a lot of items that were not working correctly in the previous versions.
I don't think they are going to offer version 3 for sale anymore, so if you want to go back to that either have them use the 3.4 (which is 3.321) or re-install your previous version 3 installs.

[Robster]

Hi sleflar my comment are an observation and please do not take them as personal criticism.

Hoster is a computer based program any one using any computer based program has to have at least a little bit of computer knowledge .

The car driving test in the UK didn't have any questions about how a car works and what fluids etc you put in the engine but has the test has been revised as knowing a little how something works has great benifits on how you use and operate that thing.

Originally Posted by sleflar

Twenty Three of them do not have the understanding enough to perform the list for the install

a little training will help them feel far more comfortable and may even help them out of a tricky situation

Originally Posted by sleflar

I don't hire them for there computer knowledge

But you do ask them to operate a computer and software

Originally Posted by sleflar

using Virtual DJ and Hoster together

If they can work both virtual DJ and hoster at the same time they are more than capable than doing the small tweeks that are needed for 4.06 IMHO.

I genuinely hope you sort this out i am just a fellow hoster user and have had problems too until i upgraded to 4.06 (after doing the vista set up requirements)

Rob

[sleflar]

Thank you for your comments.

Our entertainers are all over NV & CA. There is no other programs we use that requires you to change settings on your compter for it to operate properly. They didn't have to have the knowledge to change settings before 4xx to have a flawless show.

They have all spent months of labor hours converting there discs to KMA. I sold them all on the Hoster program because I felt it was the best in the market place and see no reason to hire an additional person just for one program.

Let's face reality, Vista is here to stay. I used to be an exec for ITT and understand R&D. It's tough and exspensive. We'll stick with 4.03 for now.

[bryant]

Originally Posted by Robster

If they can work both virtual DJ and hoster at the same time they are more than capable than doing the small tweeks that are needed for 4.06 IMHO.
Rob

When VDJ did their major upgrade two years ago, they listed hundreds of tweaks in order for their program to run smoothly. Other programs do this too in fact, esp. those using intensive video resources, require a number of helpful tweaks. Those that ignored the tweaks had it rough for quite some time. THE TWEAKING SIMPLY PUTS MOST MACHINES AT THE SAME LEVEL (or more nearly, I should say) ALLOWING THE forum members to help solve the glitches better.

You cannot explain to someone over the phone how to get their car started if they forgot to put in gas. If everybody starts out with gas, oil, and a few basics they are more equivalent, you might say, and problems can be identified easier, instead of being attributed to a large combination of things. JMO

[OneEskalera]

Let's all admit this, Hoster 4.xx series is a great product for those who needed those extra featuress included who needed to use it. But for those just doing great karaoke shows that does not need those extra features H3.4 or H3.321 were really great karaoke software with great reliability. My show computer still has H3.315 in it and up to this time works flawlessly. I had H4.06 in my back-up computer and still has minor glitches, Intermitently frezzing up on video file for unknown reason and after re-starting hoster and playing the same video files everything seems to be normal again (the minor problem is little annoying but I could still use it) but it does not do that on H3.315. I know it is different code or whatsoever but till I got H4.06 100% working properly I will not upgrade that show computer. H4.06 will remain back-up for now cause I don't need those extra feature in it. I had those for the last 2 years using different software with out any problem. Integrating it in hoster is great idea if there are no conflicts or problems involved.

H4.06 is great product and the direction where it want to go is good.
Ideally, a software should install and work with minimal adjustment on users computer, I hope H4.xx series in the future will do that.
MtU Hoster still the best Karaoke software...

[marklwood]

Originally Posted by sleflar

Thank you for your comments.

Our entertainers are all over NV & CA. There is no other programs we use that requires you to change settings on your compter for it to operate properly. They didn't have to have the knowledge to change settings before 4xx to have a flawless show.

They have all spent months of labor hours converting there discs to KMA. I sold them all on the Hoster program because I felt it was the best in the market place and see no reason to hire an additional person just for one program.

Let's face reality, Vista is here to stay. I used to be an exec for ITT and understand R&D. It's tough and exspensive. We'll stick with 4.03 for now.

I feel your pain, I used to have a DJ that every single time we did an outside gig, I had to go to the venue and show him how to hook up the video to whatever display system was at the location. He worked for me for 8 years and NEVER got it. I finally started charging him for every time I had to go and help him out. Lo and behold, he figured it out!!!

In the Hoster testimonials, I recently posted about teaching someone to run a show in a couple of minutes. The ease of Hoster is what made that possible.

I don't know of anyone who doesn't have a brother-in-law that is capable of making the minor changes to Vista to make this thing run well. It is only a one-time job and is a small price to pay for all the new features.

[karaokefun]

Hey guys,

This my first post here. I had to respond after reading this thread. In my humble opinion, you should never have to make changes to your computer settings (and definately not THAT many) to make a program work.

The anology of simply checking your car's gas and oil is WAY over simplistic. After seeing the "tweaks" required at this point to make it run right on Vista, I'd liken it more to a repairing a cracked block. Understand that it's easy if you already know it. Not everyone is computer savvy.

I'm one of those DJs who runs Hoster with a DJ program and can't do the adjustments (I also don't know how to quote someone here, as I've seen others here do)

To the guy who suggested hiring an IT guy to explain it: Are you serious?

I don't consider it "whining" or "crying" to object to having to take who knows how much time to learn, then do, all of the required changes (and all the while being nervous that I might be screwing up my laptop to perform other tasks outside of karaoke)

MTU should simply make a program that works correctly with Vista.

Thanx,
Ron

[marklwood]

Originally Posted by karaokefun

Hey guys,

This my first post here.

Welcome to the forums!! It is always nice to hear the opinions and often unheard problems people are having.

Originally Posted by karaokefun

In my humble opinion, you should never have to make changes to your computer settings (and definately not THAT many) to make a program work.

I'm one of those DJs who runs Hoster with a DJ program and can't do the adjustments (I also don't know how to quote someone here, as I've seen others here do)

Thanx,
Ron

All of the changes to Vista are merely to free up computer resources. I have been testing 4.06 on a Vista gaming laptop that is more powerful than most. I have been able to run it without all of the changes made. Most programs, high end games included, don't depend on the video and sound to be perfectly in sync. That is why most people notice the problems. I am sure that with a little help and feedback from people like yourself all the issues can get resolved.

[ddouglass]

The only thing I can say is what do you do when your computer starts acting up? The same thing you do when your car is not running right...you take it to a mechanic.
Would you rather that Hoster went in and made all these tweaks for you on installation? I can't say whether or not that would be possible with Vista's security, but it is a thought.
If you remember back when Vista came out both Hoster (3.315) and Vista had to be tweaked in oder to get the program to work at all on it. So don't tell me that Hoster 3 ran without any. Even for XP you have had to do the Custom Updates because Microsoft doesn't include everything in their Automatic Updates.
Every major program that you install on your computer requires some adjustments to get them to work exactly right. As Marklwood said there aren't many that require precise syncronization of sound and graphics like karaoke programs do.

[sleflar]

ddouglas,

We have over 23 laptops with Hoster. We have never had to make adjustments to our computers for any program except Hoster 4xx.

Even the gentleman that said when VDJ came out with there upgrade you needed to make adjustments to make the program work correctly. We didn't need to make any adjustments on any of our computers. I talked to many of our competitors in the area and they didn't have to make adjustments on VDJ.

[ddouglass]

All I can say is if you want the best performance then sometimes you have to do a little tuning up. Especially when Microsoft keeps reformulating the "gas". Hoster is more complex now than ever before with a lot of added features with more on the way and Vista has made the job a whole lot more difficult with the added resources required for it and security that has gotten to the ridiculous point.If you haven't had to make adjustments before then you have been very lucky.

[marklwood]

Comparing VDJ's requirements to Hoster's is like comparing minesweeper to the latest 3D game. My brother-in-law is a gamer. Every time he gets a new game or upgrades an existing one, I get the call. Most of the time I can just make adjustments for the added resources needed, but sometimes he has to make a choice. Either upgrade the hardware, make the necessary tweaks, or don't play the game.

Even if you never make any changes at all, Microsoft raises the bar with every security fix and "upgrade" to the operating system. Eventually it will catch up to you. Also, I would think that without some sort of computer control system in place, you don't REALLY know what happens with those systems while they are not under your personal control. This, alone, would seem to warrant at least someone with a little knowledge to periodically check these machines for viruses or other tampering.