MP3+G & bin files

[pmc181]

I have read several posts about being able to spit a regular cdg karaoke file into two files, one a wave and the other a graphics file, and then convert the wave to mp3 and then remerge the file back together. So my question is this.

If I can do that, why can't I split the file, and then use compression/normilzation on it and then merge it back together without going thru the hassle of manually typing the lyrics back in using KHPRO ?

This way I could set the volume level for a set of mixed karaoke files the way I want so they all sound the same.

Thanks,

Paul

[jahern]

Paul

Even though your entry is named "MP3+G & and bin files", I think that you are not advocating the use of MP3+G. (You will probably get responses that this format is illegal.)

It sounds to me like you would like to make your cdg songs on disc more uniform sounding.

It sounds like the way you normally do this is to extract wave files from your CDG discs, normalize them through some wave editor and then "add" the words back using KPRO.

I think that you are saying that if the files can be split, and we know they can because of what we hear about MP3+G, then why can't microstudio, in a similar way, split the files, and normalize them for us and put the words right back the way they were originally?

Is that what you are saying?
(To anybody: For a synopsis of my logic, please private message me before jumping down my throat; I already have a cough!)

I have asked for similar capability in vogone. I want to be absolutely sure that the reduced file is at the same volume level as the original (I like to paste sections of the original back in) Right now the volume level of the Reduced file is done by ear.

I have spoken with MTU, long ago about the capability of adding sound while retaining the same look as the original (eg. a pitch for a cdg song that begins accapella) I believe that I was told that this would violate a copyright. I would not be surprised if what you are proposing would also be illegal. I will be interested in the responses you get.

[admin]

First, MP3+G is a format designed for illegal copyright violation. If you are a professional using these files, you can loose all your equipment in a Court of Law (not some KaraokeKop coming to your show and demanding your gear - throw the illegal bum out!). You MUST own the discs for the songs you are playing or have other legal proof of ownership of every song. That is the law.

Now, we do not support the MP3+G format for this reason, and do not care to encourage discussions of it or any MP3+G tools in our forums because of its illegal nature. We try to guide Karaoke users toward the best answers for them.

MP3+G does split the lyrics from the music, and to my knowledge, once split they remain split. MTU's KMA file format used by Hoster is the only one we are aware of that keeps the music and lyrics/graphics combined as one file.

We are adding a Normalization function into Keyrite. It takes a CDG file, splits the lyrics/graphics from the music, key changes the music, then combines them back into a .cdg file. This file is identical to what is on your Karaoke CDG discs. Thus, we have the core platform code to process the file. We also have Normalization code in Hoster that can be ported into Keyrite. It will happen.

FYI: Microstudio and Vogone do NOT have the processing code to split a CDG file into lyrics/graphics and music. Microstudio can import a CDG disc track as a .wav file sans lyrics/graphics, but you only get the music. Keyrite is the logical choice to add this into. It already has the core platform to process CDG files and keep the lyrics in sync.

JAHERN, Vogone - by its nature of removing part of the song - is going to drop the amplitude. There is absolutely NO WAY that you can be absolutely sure you are restoring the processed file back to the original amplitude level. We could do RMS amplitude processing on the before and after files, and then adjust the after file to the same RMS level, but amplitude levels have been changed. It will not (from a perfectionist's viewpoint) be the same amplitude. Your idea was good, but technically flawed, which is why we have not moved on it. I thank you for realizing that we did listen to your idea, now you know why it was not accepted. Also, Vogone does not process CDG files, only WAV files.

I thank you for your post as we are right now upgrading Keyrite and to add this will be a small cost to us.

[pmc181]

Jahern,
You are correct. I am not advocating using the mp3+g software to do anything illegal or compete with MTU. I am a long time supportor of MTU. But I had asked the question before why a cdg file can not be split and edit the wave file and re-merge it right back. Remember, I just want to compress and normalize the wave file and put it back, not changing the lenght of it at all. So, I'm thinking that the timing between the wave and the lyrics should stay exactly the same, no need to re-type them back in.

Specifically, what I'm saying is, if mp3+g can split apart and re-merge the cdg files, why can't Microstudio do the same ? I would gladly pay an upgrade to Microstudio to be able to do this as it would save a lot of time. I don't have or use Holster.

Paul

[jahern]

Admin

I truly admire the work that MTU does and the programs it gives us. I can understand that certain things cannot be built into a program. But why did you go and get personal??


QUOTE:

Your idea was good, but technically flawed

What I will do in the future is get a program like-------and maximize the volume of both the original file and the vocal reduced file. The volume level, being maximized, should be acceptably the same. I know very well that vogone removes sound. You know it too and give us a volume adjuster. I don't trust my ear. I am aiming for the same volume, not the same as the original volume, just the same volume. If both files are maximized, I am happy with that. I can assume that if I paste parts of the original back into the vr file, then the volume of sound will not be as noticeable.


Free joke that I made up (even if anybody has heard it before; doubt it, too geeky)

CAN YOU SAY THAT A DISC THAT HAS A LOT OF BIN FILES ON IT IS BIN LADEN?

Yuck Yuck

[George]

OH-SOME-ARE

[jahern]

That was sharp
Good One!!

[terioke]

I have downloaded the trial version of micro studio due to my dissapointment in the DartPro. I was going through the motions and when I went to add tracks from my hard drive it wouldn't recognize my bin files. I have a lot of them ready to burn. When I burn them using Dart the music will come out but not the graphics. This happens on my 'work' machine, but it plays graphics and music fine on another unit. I've tried different media..Maxell 80min & Imation 74 min. I haven't tried TDK just yet.
You have media you say will work on any machine..is this guaranteed? I'd hate to buy 100 of these only to find the same problem. Can I buy a 5 pack just to test it?
I also have a copy of CDRWin which I tried as well with the same mixed results, so it probably is a media issue. Are there any settings I can check?
When I first installed your demo your software didn't recognize either of my cd roms...there was nothing in the detect drives window. When I tried it again it recognized both of them and did validate my HP 9300 cdwriter+ as a cdg burner. I have used this burner to make gdg's before and I bought it because it is designed to burn gdg's..it does not support burn proof, however.
I apologize for the length of this post, but I'm at my wits end and I'm hoping you can help me.
Thanks
Terioke

[George]

Terioke,

Microstudio will not recognize .BIN files, only .WAV and CDG.

George

[danny_g]

try going into my computerand use rename- and change the .bin extention to .cdg. then it will work

[terioke]

Thanks, guys I appreciate your input.
What about the other issues I mentioned?
It's really nice to have an active forum.
Terioke

[jahern]

I've had good success with both memorex and maxell.

I used to own a hp burner and it worked well with these brands. (All my cdg burners have)

Re: no burnproof:
Make sure you are doing nothing else while you do your cdg work. Turn off all unnecessary programs. Working with W98 I depress cntrl. alt delete simultaneously and I am taken to a close program box. I close every program but explorer and systray. Then I open Microstudio and do my work. My work was successful with the hp as I followed this practice

[terioke]

I've done that every time. I do have a JVC 3 tray work unit. This is the one the graphics won't come up on. Graphics do come up on my Dennonett, an older unit I keep in the music room for reviewing.
I'll have to get some Mitsui disks & see if that works.
Thanks!
Teri

[jahern]

In the past, my recordings sometimes didn't show graphics at the place I like to go to. I instinctively get nervous every time I try a new recording. But it has not happened since I just routinely started recording my "other people's equipment" recordings at 6x speed. Some people recommend going down to 1x. 6x has not failed me.

This is my experience with graphics. I have not seen in any of these threads that changing to Mitsui has changed a recording from working on a machine to not working on a machine. I'm interested in seeing if it does the trick for you.

[terioke]

Hmmmm I'll try that.
Just for giggles I copied a Music Maestro disk using Memorex 80 min...it was perfect and played on the JVC (my problem child) I recorded on 2x.
I started thinking...what is the difference between the ones that work & the ones that don't? A starting image. I'm going to try putting one in and see if that works.
I'm crosseyed!
Ta