Key change problem with 4.11 - Solution Upgrade to Windows Media Player 11

[lpwalsh]

Happy New Year!!! I posted just before Christmas about the key change problem that several people including myself had experienced after the 4.11 upgrade. One of my resolutions was to not let this dampen my start in 2010. I had gone back to 4.09d to get me through the holidays. Well, I'm back!!

Today I found it! It may not be a cure-all but it did fix mine. My laptop was bare bones, so I compared everything on it with what was on my slower desktop backup, which worked. Windows Media Player was version 9 on the laptop and version 11 on the desktop. So I updated. Didn't expect it to make a difference, but it did. Everything appears to be smooth so far. XXXXX

Now for the big question. Does anybody have a clue why?????

[ddouglass]

Easy, Hoster uses Windows Media Player to play the audio. The Audio in 4.11 is more complex now with the addition of the Remove Silence and the Fade In/Fade Out. This is obviously more than WMP 9 can handle.
Good find!!
I am going to move this to the tail-end of your other thread on this so it is all together.

[lpwalsh]

Thanks Dale. I put in about 30 to 40 songs with a key change on everything. Put it on auto and let it run. Didn't hang up like before either. Again, thanks for your help.

[dspins]

This key changing problem has been a rather big embarassment since the last upgrade. Whenever I try to change keys on a song for a customer, I get pops and clicks, and the music sounds horrid. I am using WMP 10, not 9 and still have this problem. The only reason I have not wanted to upgrade is that WMP 11 has alot of different changes and looks that make it more difficult to sort through DJ music between Karaoke sets.

Can anyone confirm any other way other than converting to 11 to fix this problem? I just find it so frustrating that every time Hoster is running fine, attempts to make changes to it keep breaking it. Suggestions as always are welcome. Thanks in advance.

[ddouglass]

All I can say is users have asked for all these changes and additions. MTU is one of the very few software companies that listen to their users and try to give them what they want. And it isn't just one person requesting, but when a group of users add their posts that they want it too.
Why use WMP for your DJ music between karaoke sets when Hoster can also handle this and the next upgrade will make handling these even better. MTU is trying to help us do both DJ and KJ duties with the least amount of hassles.
Look at this way if you have to buy a new computer it will most likely be Windows 7 or Vista and both of those come with WMP 11 installed. I am not crazy about WMP 11 myself, but on my show computer it is installed but never opened. This keeps its footprint (processor time down to a minimum. If you open it then it sets up its network service and starts trying to catalog all the music on your computer.....yech!!
As far as fixing the problem I don't think there is anyway, because Hoster is asking WMP 9 to do something it doesn't know how to do. WMP 10 & 11 handle this just fine, but I am not sure you can find WMP 10 anymore.

[lrn4569]

I have upgraded my Windows Media Player to 11 and it still pops! I really like Hoster but this is very frustrating. This did not happen with older versions of Hoster so I hope they are working on a revision to 4.11 that could solve the problem

Loren

[ddouglass]

Originally Posted by lrn4569

I have upgraded my Windows Media Player to 11 and it still pops! I really like Hoster but this is very frustrating. This did not happen with older versions of Hoster so I hope they are working on a revision to 4.11 that could solve the problem

Loren

Did it have XP, Vista or Windows 7 on it?
If it was XP it should have had WMP 10 or 11 on it. If it was Vista it already had WMP 11 on it. If it was Windows 7 it had WMP 12 on it. You should not have needed to upgrade to WMP 11 and doing so would not change anything.
Have you tried any of the other suggestions in this thread like check for additional "Custom" updates from Microsoft or checking http://www.blackviper.com/ to see if there are any services you can turn off? If you will note that the original poster of this thread had done both of these items before upgrading WMP, so it may be a combination of all to get a solution.

MTU is not currently working on any key change solution that I know of. The majority of users are not having a problem with this at all. This seems to be effecting a very small minority.

[lrn4569]

Hi Doug, this is a hoster laptop computer i purchased from mtu in november of last year. I have changed nothing on this laptop. It should have shippped ready to go and worked without having to got o some blackviper website to turn stuff off. Perhaps it is a defective hoster laptop? Note that changing the key only cracks and pops on some songs, not all do. I havE an older hoster laptop i purchased a couple years ago that still has 3.31?) on it, and it has NO problem whatsoever in changing the key. There is something in the newer version that does not work right.

I do like mtu, and the hoster software. I believe that they can fix the issue at some point but if they have decided not to look into it any further because only some of us are having the problem then i am very dissaponted.

[ddouglass]

Originally Posted by lrn4569

Hi Doug, this is a hoster laptop computer i purchased from mtu in november of last year. I have changed nothing on this laptop. It should have shippped ready to go and worked without having to got o some blackviper website to turn stuff off. Perhaps it is a defective hoster laptop? Note that changing the key only cracks and pops on some songs, not all do. I havE an older hoster laptop i purchased a couple years ago that still has 3.31?) on it, and it has NO problem whatsoever in changing the key. There is something in the newer version that does not work right.

Yes at the time you bought it in November it was up to date as far as the operating system is concerned. Hoster 4.11 was loaded for you as well. However Microsoft has since November put out at least 30 updates to programs and security fixes. Microsoft continues to put out weekly updates which is good but it is up to you to keep up with them.
MTU does not customize the Windows setup for you as it isn't necessary for everybody. This was why we suggested going to Black Viper to try turning off some of the unnecessary services that Microsoft sets up.
You do understand that there have been several major additions to Hoster since 3.321. New Singers database, Background Audio, Remove Silence, Importing Audio, and Visualization capability are just a few. All of these user requested functions take up more resources, processor time and hard drive space. Comparing 3.321 to 4.11 is like comparing Apples and Oranges.

Originally Posted by lrn4569

I do like mtu, and the hoster software. I believe that they can fix the issue at some point but if they have decided not to look into it any further because only some of us are having the problem then i am very dissaponted.

Again the problem is not in the program but is in the computer set-up. The program is working for 99% of us and we are talking about thousands of users. I even have a relatively old desktop (my primary home computer) that I use for testing that is so bogged down with programs on it that it takes it 10 minutes to shutdown. Hoster works fine on it for every function of Hoster 4.11.
I suggest you put in a Support Ticket from the MTU web page and let MTU Support take a look at it.

[lrn4569]

I do have a trouble ticket and would like it if i could schedule a time with a tech to help me resolve this. I have gone to microsofts website to check for updates as well

[dspins]

Originally Posted by ddouglass

Again the problem is not in the program but is in the computer set-up. The program is working for 99% of us and we are talking about thousands of users.

Your input is alway appreciated, but I respectfully disagree with your statement. Just because you have not heard complaints from more users, does not mean they are having the same problem. I never knew it was an issue until new customers started coming to my shows who were karaoke junkies and liked to customize each song they sing and asked for key changes to many songs. I am embarassed that I needed to have them bring in a CD and play it in my stand-by player to make it sound normal. Sadly those customers have not returned since because of these blunders.

It is improbable that settings are the main issue because I went through and changed all thsoe recommended settings a long time ago that hoster asked us to check. Hoster has run pretty good for 5 years on my current show computers. They all have xp-pro and 4 gigs of ram and sb audigy cards. There are no bottleneck issues and where in my setups. (I ran some tests, the processor on the machines stays around 4-8% usage when using the key changer and the song running.)

As for your statement, I am very happy that MTU was able to make Hoster run perfect for you and your close friends systems, but I think it is fool hardy for you to attempt to speak for everyone everywhere with 99% certainty. I am always willing to look to solve a problem, but this does beg a question....

Why should I pay more money to Hoster to keep causing me problems and hurt my shows with changes that are not fully tested? This is very simple. If Hoster works fine for years, then does not after you make changes to it, then the problems stems from the changes made to it, not our systems. If all we are going to see in the future is more of this "it must be the customers fault" (when things we are paying for do not work after upgrades are made), maybe it is time for us the customers to stop sending in our money until these changes are fixed properly. I am not sure what else we are supposed to do or say when we follow all the directions given to us and by no fault of our own the software fails to deliver all the functions we pay for.

I mean no disrespect to you or anyone else, but making a statement that nothing will be fixed just because this is not a problem for you personally, and it "must be the customers fault" is the type of response that can upset a customer in a hurry.

[ddouglass]

Originally Posted by dspins

Your input is alway appreciated, but I respectfully disagree with your statement. Just because you have not heard complaints from more users, does not mean they are having the same problem. I never knew it was an issue until new customers started coming to my shows who were karaoke junkies and liked to customize each song they sing and asked for key changes to many songs. I am embarassed that I needed to have them bring in a CD and play it in my stand-by player to make it sound normal. Sadly those customers have not returned since because of these blunders.

And I stand by my statement. I never said there are not more who may have a problem than who post here, but even if you double or even triple the number it is still a minority compared to the many thousands who use it.

Originally Posted by dspins

It is improbable that settings are the main issue because I went through and changed all thsoe recommended settings a long time ago that hoster asked us to check. Hoster has run pretty good for 5 years on my current show computers. They all have xp-pro and 4 gigs of ram and sb audigy cards. There are no bottleneck issues and where in my setups. (I ran some tests, the processor on the machines stays around 4-8% usage when using the key changer and the song running.)

Most cases do get fixed by changing O/S set-up or the computer being under powered in memory (both main and video), processor speed, or hard drive space. Processor time percentage is a part of it but the other items I lested are also a factor. Have you tried any of the fixes suggested above?
Have you degragmented the C: drive on those computers or cleaned up the registry? These items too can cause problems and slowdowns on your computers.

Originally Posted by dspins

As for your statement, I am very happy that MTU was able to make Hoster run perfect for you and your close friends systems, but I think it is fool hardy for you to attempt to speak for everyone everywhere with 99% certainty.

That is very funny as I do not have any 'close friends" who use any MTU product. The people I speak of are users who post here on the forums just like you and the group of beta testers none of which are close friends either. I read and respond as necessary to anyone who posts in these forums. If it isn't something that can be fixed with known corrections then I refer them to MTU's Support. The code for Key Change has been looked at many times and no one at MTU or in the Beta Testers has been able to duplicate this problem.

Originally Posted by dspins

I mean no disrespect to you or anyone else, but making a statement that nothing will be fixed just because this is not a problem for you personally, and it "must be the customers fault" is the type of response that can upset a customer in a hurry.

I did not state that nothing would be fixed because I didn't have a problem with it. I stated the problem is not within the program. I then gave as an example my older system with no intent that that would be the reason.

I never once said it was the "customer's fault" but said that it was a computer problem.

You seem to fail to understand that there are many differences between all of the millions of computers out in the world. These differences can be configuration, O/S settings, programs installed, background services installed, good maintenance (or lack of) and many other factors.

Last but not least do keep in mind that I am NOT an employee of MTU. I have been asked by MTU to moderate these forums because I do care and want to help other users to solve their problems. I have been a computer/electronics tech for over 40 years so I do have a little experience with this.

If you do not like my answers then you are always free to submit a Support Ticket and let MTU SUpport work with you on it.

To the others who have posted in this thread I apologized if any of you are offended or feel my answers have not been helpful.

[ddouglass]

Originally Posted by lrn4569

I do have a trouble ticket and would like it if i could schedule a time with a tech to help me resolve this. I have gone to microsofts website to check for updates as well

I have no doubt that he will call you to see when he can work on this with you. Most likely he will want to connect to the computer to look and see if he can find the cause.

[Joe Nieves]

Originally Posted by lrn4569

I have upgraded my Windows Media Player to 11 and it still pops! I really like Hoster but this is very frustrating. This did not happen with older versions of Hoster so I hope they are working on a revision to 4.11 that could solve the problem

Loren

Originally Posted by dspins

This key changing problem has been a rather big embarassment since the last upgrade. Whenever I try to change keys on a song for a customer, I get pops and clicks, and the music sounds horrid. I am using WMP 10, not 9 and still have this problem. The only reason I have not wanted to upgrade is that WMP 11 has alot of different changes and looks that make it more difficult to sort through DJ music between Karaoke sets.

Can anyone confirm any other way other than converting to 11 to fix this problem? I just find it so frustrating that every time Hoster is running fine, attempts to make changes to it keep breaking it. Suggestions as always are welcome. Thanks in advance.

Hi Loren & dspins
You're probably having some background latency problem, here's a list of programs and steps that may help you solve these issues, you will need to start "Gamebooster" first before you start Hoster program.

Here's some other recommendations:

1. Do a registry clean up.here's one that's very good. http://www.winaso.com/ or Free program "Care" http://www.iobit.com/advancedwindowscareper.html

2. Do A windows defreg on the hard drive. Use this free program http://www.iobit.com/gamebooster.html?Str=download

3. Do A windows clean up of the hard drive.

4. Go to Start "Run", then type in "Temp" click ok, then delete all the temp files in that dir.you can, some you will be unable to delete.

5. If you use the computer every day you may want to remove some old restore points that will speed up things for you; go to start, my computer, right click over drive c:\ and choose properties, click disk clean Up, at dialog box choose "More Options" tab, go to System Restore at the bottom click "Clean Up", click yes to remove old restore points.

6. Turn off background services this tool will do it for you and it's free http://www.iobit.com/gamebooster.html?Str=download

7. This Is Very Important "Latency" get this tool and "Use It". http://www.thesycon.de/eng/home.shtml

8. Right click anywhere on the screen and choose properties, click "Settings" tab click square "1" lower "Screen resolution" to Hoster Recommended amount, I use 1152 by 864 pixels, then click "Apply" then ok.

9. Things you should turn off in "Device Manager", click on the device right click and choose disable. (Do This Procedure Before You Start Hoster)

1. Fingerprint Coprocessor
2. Bluetooth
3. USB Video Device
4. Modem
5. Any Bluetooth Audio
6. Internal Sound card your not using
7. Broadcom Netlink
8. Wireless Wifi Link
9. Under Batteries/ ACPI-Compliant Control Method Battery
10. All above to Lower Latency levels down as mush as possible.


When you complete your show, turn them back "ON" again.

I believe the steps outlined above will give you better results.

Let me know how it worked out.


Good Luck
Joe...

[dspins]

Originally Posted by Joe Nieves

Hi Loren & dspins
You're probably having some background latency problem, here's a list of programs and steps that may help you solve these issues, you will need to start "Gamebooster" first before you start Hoster program.

When you complete your show, turn them back "ON" again.

I believe the steps outlined above will give you better results.
Let me know how it worked out.


Good Luck
Joe...

Thanks for the ideas. I will give those a shot.

[admin]

The worst condition for programmers is to be faced with solving a problem they cannot re-create to prove they "got it".

That's where we stand on the key change sounds; we can't re-create it at MTU, and none of our honored Beta Testers can either.

We went back to 4.06 code (which users told us does not exhibit the key change errors) and compared it to our 4.20 code. We did find some extra changes made by a consultant. We studied the changes and did not find they were needed or added new functions. So, we removed them.

Dspin, if you want to try our 4.20 Beta 9 version we are releasing for test tonight, I'll be glad to get the download link to you privately for you to see if we "got it" this time. If this doesn't fix it, then it is not our KEY CHANGE code... however as Ddouglass has been drilling into everyone in this thread, it is then either Hoster's combined set of new features, and/or your computer setup... which changes weekly (thank you Microsoft ).

If it is the combined Hoster feature set, return to using V4.06.

We expect to offer 4.21 (AFTER we upgrade Micro studio), that should allow disabling "memory hungry" individual features.

As Dale also pointed out, there are millions of WinTel computers and no program in our price range will run on all of them.

[dspins]

Originally Posted by admin

Dspin, if you want to try our 4.20 Beta 9 version we are releasing for test tonight, I'll be glad to get the download link to you privately for you to see if we "got it" this time. If this doesn't fix it, then it is not our KEY CHANGE code...

Is there a way you can send me a PM to this link? I noticed you have released 4.20 now, but before I committ more money to buying another update, I want to know this is going to fix the problem. I forgot to check back sooner (we had a death in the family) and my last update expired a couple months ago.

[dspins]

Sorry for the double post. This section will not allow me to edit the last post.

Anyway, even though there have been many posts assuring us that windows media player 10 & 11 both work fine with Hoster, I tried updating to 11 and the popping and clicking stopped. I don't like 11 because it will not allow you to set things up the same as 10 and has alot of ppointless album artwork that can't seem to be turned off or moved so that titles of songs can be in the first row. At any rate this seems to be a driver issue and you must use media player 11.

Can anyone confirm this "for sure"? There have been posts already that say both 10 & 11 work fine, but my results seem to be at odds with that claim.

Thank You.

[ddouglass]

4.20 has already been released so of course the beta version Admin referred to in February is long gone.
As far as WMP 10 and 11 both working I don't think so anymore. it was true with 4.11, but seems that 4.20 won't work but with WMP 11 now probably because of other updates Microsoft has done along with and after that was released.
I don't like all the added garbage that Microsoft has added to WMP 11 either, but most of it I have turned off in the options. I found that on my show machines WMP had a much smaller presence if I installed it but never opened it the first time. That way it does not have the ability to turn-on and setup the network capabilities, but still works with Hoster just fine.

[dspins]

Ok, this is going to sound weird but my solution to the problem worked.

First I upgraded from media player 10 to 11. Then after all the new drivers for it were loaded, I rolled it back to 10 again. I once again have 10 loaded, and the pops and clicks have all stopped when changing keys on Hoster. I am not sure what chages were made, but it is working much better now.

However, I now have a bigger issue to consider. There is a new release of MTU out. It would seem that everytime we upgrade, new problems start for those of us who like to stay with XP Pro. I am not sure how wise it would be to upgrade the software anymore. I like that it is running without embarassing problems for the first time in a long while.