getting new Mixer: Mackie???

[Monolithent]

Could you tell me exactly which model amps you are using? There may be another way to get you connected. Might even be simpler.

Basically, merge your outputs from your mixer into a single XLR connection (you can find adapters for this at most music stores) and run them into one (only) of the two XLR inputs on your amp. The other XLR input is often setup to serve as a line level output when operated in this manner (there is usally some kind of switch on the back of the amp to set this up). Connect an XLR cable from this connection to the input of your other amp and there you go. Both connected and far simpler set up. This is how I run my monitor speakers. The downside here is that now you will have to operate in mono instead of stereo. If you are leary of this then I can tell you from experience that after running mono for over a decade. No one has ever noticed. Plus you can also bridge your amps and run them at 4 Ohms with these types of setups. More power and actually easier on your amps as long as its controlled.

The USB port on the ProFX12/8 is used for streaming the main mix to a recording DAW software and sending a stereo stream from a computer program (such as hoster or a DJ program). I believe its level is controlled by the USB input knob near the EQ sliders. I don't think it is possible to reroute it to a slider of any type except the main output. If you are insterested in one that allows you to connect to each line you might look into a Yamaha N8 or N12. The cost is higher but it allows you the ability to run several items back and forth to your computer simultaneously via single firewire cable and is assignable to input sliders. Stay clear of the M-audio NRV-10. Its crap for live purposes. From what I've seen the USB connections on mixers are all single stereo in and out (even on some of the higher end mixers like the Allen & Heath ZED series which are far better built) which gives the firewire units a strong advantage in that they have multiple stereo ins and outs.

Good luck with the Mackie. I have looked at it and it seems pretty solid and should serve you well for quite some time. The main reason I didn't go with it is that I am moving into a lot more live sound applications and there weren't enough connections plus I prefer firewire. USB has too many issues for my taste. I am waiting for USB 3.0 to see if it has resolved them.

[Monolithent]

And something I just noticed about this particular mixer is that there are 2 sets of main outs, one pair on top of the console and one pair on the back. You could run your sub amp from one pair and the full range amp from the other pair. A lot more connections but it is an option and you could still run stereo if you like. It would keep you from having to use the unbalanced tape outs and be able to run a balanced cable so your signal would be much cleaner to your amps.

[bryant]

Originally Posted by Monolithent

And something I just noticed about this particular mixer is that there are 2 sets of main outs, one pair on top of the console and one pair on the back. You could run your sub amp from one pair and the full range amp from the other pair. A lot more connections but it is an option and you could still run stereo if you like. It would keep you from having to use the unbalanced tape outs and be able to run a balanced cable so your signal would be much cleaner to your amps.

Not really concerned about stereo but agree with you on cleaner signal. didn't notice the main outputs on top when i was looking at the mackie site, are you sure they weren't send/return effects or womething else, as I seem to remember.

[bryant]

Originally Posted by Monolithent

It would keep you from having to use the unbalanced tape outs and be able to run a balanced cable so your signal would be much cleaner to your amps.

The main outputs on top are not an XLR however, I'm not familiar with a balanced 1/4" as opposed to an unbalanced 1/4". How do I determine the precise difference Mono?

[Lonman]

You would have a lot better sound & a much easier time with an external crossover feeding both the subs & mains - only because you are not crossing over the tops at the same frequency the subs are so they are trying to reproduce the sub frequencies still as well running into some possible phase cancellation & loss of frequencies in some of the low end. A crossover point of 75-100 is more ideal for subs as well.
That being said, the XLR & 1/4" balanced main outputs can be used simultaneously giving you main volume control for both amps you wish to push. It will be better than using a tape out for a connection.
The computer hooks to the mixer via a USB cable only, no need for the 1/8" mini jack or anything else. The PROFX actually acts as a I/O sound interface so could be used on a computer with no sound card at all - the mixer IS the sound card!

1/4" balanced is a tip/ring/sleeve - looks like a standard headphone plug. An unbalanced is a tip/ring - looks like a 1/4" plug you'd plug into say a guitar.
I attached pics of a bal & unbal plug - notice the extra ring on the balanced plug. For the Mackie output, use the balanced on the mixer & if your amp has XLR inputs, go balanced 1/4" - to XLR (determine whether you need male or female on the amp).
You could try to run both programs at the same time, but like said they may try to cancel each other out - even if only one is sending a signal.

[bryant]

Originally Posted by Lonman

You would have a lot better sound & a much easier time with an external crossover feeding both the subs & mains - only because you are not crossing over the tops at the same frequency the subs are so they are trying to reproduce the sub frequencies still as well running into some possible phase cancellation & loss of frequencies in some of the low end. A crossover point of 75-100 is more ideal for subs as well.
That being said, the XLR & 1/4" balanced main outputs can be used simultaneously giving you main volume control for both amps you wish to push. It will be better than using a tape out for a connection.
The computer hooks to the mixer via a USB cable only, no need for the 1/8" mini jack or anything else. The PROFX actually acts as a I/O sound interface so could be used on a computer with no sound card at all - the mixer IS the sound card!

1/4" balanced is a tip/ring/sleeve - looks like a standard headphone plug. An unbalanced is a tip/ring - looks like a 1/4" plug you'd plug into say a guitar.
I attached pics of a bal & unbal plug - notice the extra ring on the balanced plug. For the Mackie output, use the balanced on the mixer & if your amp has XLR inputs, go balanced 1/4" - to XLR (determine whether you need male or female on the amp).
You could try to run both programs at the same time, but like said they may try to cancel each other out - even if only one is sending a signal.

Great info Lon, I knew you'd jump in here sooner or later.

When you say 1/4" to XLR. Just curious why that would make a diff. as compared to bal. 1/4" on both ends, as it's only the end that is adapted and not the continuous length of wire. Think I read that somewhere?

[Lonman]

Originally Posted by bryant

Great info Lon, I knew you'd jump in here sooner or later.

When you say 1/4" to XLR. Just curious why that would make a diff. as compared to bal. 1/4" on both ends, as it's only the end that is adapted and not the continuous length of wire. Think I read that somewhere?

Only because of a better connection with the XLR - you could use a balanaced 1/4" on the amp input - provided it has them. You haven't listed the models of the amps yet as well & some amps don't have balanced 1/4" inputs & you don't really want to mix a balanced with an unbalanced if at all possible.

[Monolithent]

Originally Posted by bryant

Great info Lon, I knew you'd jump in here sooner or later.

When you say 1/4" to XLR. Just curious why that would make a diff. as compared to bal. 1/4" on both ends, as it's only the end that is adapted and not the continuous length of wire. Think I read that somewhere?

It really wouldn't, not enough to really make a difference. It is still the same signal. You can get cables that have an XLR on one end and a TRS on the other so you don't have to adapt. The more often you adapt the more signal you lose.

[billyo]

i'm not knocking Behringer out, but soundwise i prefer mackie's over anything, and price wise it's reasonable, and talking about amps, i also prefer crowns, i have 2 crown amps the CE1000 which i have my ( 2 ) 3 way JBl Soundf Factor hooked up , and CE2000 where my (2 ) subs are connected via Subsonic Harmonizer with a built in Subs connections, this way i dont have to use any crossovers or any eq's all these are connected to my mackies CFX 12 with channel assignable feature..which i assigned all the vocals to channels 1/2 and the sounds assigned to channels 3/4,which i can control thru my main fader, and my 2 stage monitors assigned to aux/send 1&2 by themselves and with their own volume control..

[Monolithent]

Easiest way to tell the difference on a 1/4 inch connector is to look at the connector.

Unbalanced cables have only one separator ring and balanced have two.

Unbalanced are capable of signal travel but are limited in their distance. Balanced are a superior choice as they are not much if any more expensive per linear foot and the second signal connection helps to cancel out interference from outside sources (such as power cables)

Unbalanced cables are often caled TS (tip+sleeve) cables
Balanced cables are known as TRS (tip+ring+sleeve) cables

The plusses (+) in the above statement would correspond to separator rings referred to in the second line of this post.

Make sense?

[Monolithent]

Thanks Lonman.

I had to disappear for a little bit.

I find that the crossover frequency depends on the Sub. Different ones like different settings for different situations. I agree with you that 75 to 100 is a good start.

I didn't address a crossover because there wasn't one mentioned in the setup. And with the setup being what it is a simple adjustable lowpass filter would suffice as well. Don't know about the cost of such an animal, though.

[billyo]

Bryant, go to www.mackie.com and they have a karaoke hook up guide for the pro12..it's easy enough to follow...this would avoid all the comfusion...

[bryant]

Originally Posted by billyo

Bryant, go to www.mackie.com and they have a karaoke hook up guide for the pro12..it's easy enough to follow...this would avoid all the comfusion...

Yup, I been there all day but still wanted input from you guys. And thanx for that (input) as well.

[bryant]

Originally Posted by Monolithent

Could you tell me exactly which model amps you are using? There may be another way to get you connected. Might even be simpler.

Basically, merge your outputs from your mixer into a single XLR connection (you can find adapters for this at most music stores) and run them into one (only) of the two XLR inputs on your amp. The other XLR input is often setup to serve as a line level output when operated in this manner (there is usally some kind of switch on the back of the amp to set this up). Connect an XLR cable from this connection to the input of your other amp and there you go. Both connected and far simpler set up. This is how I run my monitor speakers. The downside here is that now you will have to operate in mono instead of stereo. If you are leary of this then I can tell you from experience that after running mono for over a decade. No one has ever noticed. Plus you can also bridge your amps and run them at 4 Ohms with these types of setups. More power and actually easier on your amps as long as its controlled.

Hmm, pretty coolI'll send you the models no.s of amps as soon as I get to the post (club) where they are. But how will this effect the outputs of the bass amp (has built in crossover at 125 Hz(sends 125 and below to bass bins) and the outputs of the high-end amps which sends full range to speakers.

[Monolithent]

Originally Posted by bryant

But how will this effect the outputs of the bass amp (has built in crossover at 125 Hz(sends 125 and below to bass bins) and the outputs of the high-end amps which sends full range to speakers.

It shouldn't affect it at all but without knowing what they are I really don't know for sure. There may be something proprietary with that particular model. As a general rule the second input port on most amps can be switched to an output (basically what goes in comes right back out the other input connection) so you can route to multiple amps and connected speakers the exact same signal.

Also the USB is only good for one stereo signal to your computer and one stereo signal from your computer. If you run multiple audio programs at once, like I do, you will have to run a cable out of the 1/8 inch out port on the laptop to the mixer.

[bryant]

Originally Posted by Monolithent

Also the USB is only good for one stereo signal to your computer and one stereo signal from your computer. If you run multiple audio programs at once, like I do, you will have to run a cable out of the 1/8 inch out port on the laptop to the mixer.

Oh,oh, if I am running virtual DJ along with Hoster, why can't virtual Dj also send it's audio out through the usb too. As only one program would be sending a signal at any given time.

[Monolithent]

Originally Posted by bryant

Oh,oh, if I am running virtual DJ along with Hoster, why can't virtual Dj also send it's audio out through the usb too. As only one program would be sending a signal at any given time.

If you're running them at different times that will work fine. but if both are running and trying to output at the same time they will try to defeat each other.

Just a recommendation here. If there is nothing mechanically or electrically wrong with your current mixer you might want to look into a firewire/PCMCIA/USB audio recording interface (basically an ornate external sound card)
Many of these have multiple ins and outs that you could run to seperate channels of your mixer and be able to mix the way God intended.

You already have pretty much everything else you need to make it work and these are more reliable than the 1/8 jacks built into laptops.

[gotrich]

I have mackie DFX12 and I love it. I tried other boards but they dont sound the same, gains are not as nice. I love my mackie sound and so do my customers!

[billyo]

Originally Posted by gotrich

I have mackie DFX12 and I love it. I tried other boards but they dont sound the same, gains are not as nice. I love my mackie sound and so do my customers!

yup i love my mackies too

[Monolithent]

The ports on top seem to be a match to the main outs on the back from what I can tell from the schematics.

And your wife will be unhappy to know that the knob for USB input is the only way to control the input level of the USB section. That particular input is routed to the main bus and then the output sliders. Most mixer manufacturers don't take karaoke seriously and don't intend for us to be using their gear for our purposes. The USB inputs on most mixers are either for studio mixing setups or when a band decides to take a set break and want music to play for the crowd.