program locking up

[slsides]

Hi, this is my first post in the MTU forums.

one of my clients is a kj who uses hoster for his karaoke shows. his hardware was getting a bit old and dodgy, so he hired me to build him a new system. his requirements were:

• keep the system footprint as small as possible
• no internal optical drives
• ati radeon 7000 display adapter
• hoster runs from external USB hard drive where kma files are also stored
• windows xp

so i used a microATX form factor case and motherboard with via chipset, AMD sempron LE1100 cpu, 512mb of samsung ddr2 ram, a sapphire ati radeon 7000 video card and a small internal hdd with windows xp pro. the system's only use is to run karaoke shows, and these specs seem more than adequate, as well as making it very affordable.

he still had his second installation of hoster, which i used to install it on an external 500gb hdd connected to the completed pc. hoster version 2.2.1.9 is what he has, and he said he actually likes the older version better than the newer ones.

i thought we got all the kinks worked out, but last night he reported to me that hoster was locking up during his show. from what i can tell, if he does anything in hoster while a song is playing (specifically, searching for a song to make ready for the next singer), hoster will lock up at the end of the currently playing track. i know that when this happens, he has to restart hoster, and some of the times a complete reboot has been required. the only thing i know of that is different between the setup he was using last night and what he and i used to test with were the mouse and keyboard. my spares are ps/2, just old ones i keep to use when working on other peoples' computers. the ones i got him to go with the computer are usb models.

i need to help my client get this problem resolved, so any help will be most appreciated.

thanks,

shaun

[gduns - with the Lord]

i used to install it on an external 500gb hdd

Hoster must be installed to the C: Drive. also the version of hoster you are installing is very old. He should consider an upgrade.

[ddouglass]

Couple of things to add to what GDuns said.
One is 512 MB memory is adequate but barely. I would consider kicking that up to 1 GB.
Two if you haven't I would look at the Custom updates from Microsoft and do any that pertain to hardware. Also if he is going to upgrade (highly recommended) then you will need to load .Net Framework 1.0 and 2.0 to be able to install.
Most likely your glitches are being cause by the program running from the external USB drive. Response from a USB port as opposed to an internal IDE or SATA port is greatly reduced.

[admin]

Originally Posted by ddouglass

One is 512 MB memory is adequate but barely. I would consider kicking that up to 1 GB.
Two if you haven't I would look at the Custom updates from Microsoft and do any that pertain to hardware. Also if he is going to upgrade (highly recommended) then you will need to load .Net Framework 1.0 and 2.0 to be able to install.
Most likely your glitches are being cause by the program running from the external USB drive. Response from a USB port as opposed to an internal IDE or SATA port is greatly reduced.

Basically I agree with Dale, but here are our recommendations.

1. With all the features we now have, 1GB RAM is requiured.

2. Hoster must be on the C: drive. What he wants is not possible. PERIOD!

3. MTU recommends doing ALL Custom Windows Updates. Dale may be right, but if anything is not working right, do ALL upgrades.

Hoster 2.219 is no longer supported. It will not work with currently available CD/DVD drives at all. Very old drives are no longer recommended, so you have a Catch-22 to worry with. Use Hoster 3.321, which will release today.

[slsides]

Originally Posted by admin

Basically I agree with Dale, but here are our recommendations.

1. With all the features we now have, 1GB RAM is requiured.

2. Hoster must be on the C: drive. What he wants is not possible. PERIOD!

3. MTU recommends doing ALL Custom Windows Updates. Dale may be right, but if anything is not working right, do ALL upgrades.

Hoster 2.219 is no longer supported. It will not work with currently available CD/DVD drives at all. Very old drives are no longer recommended, so you have a Catch-22 to worry with. Use Hoster 3.321, which will release today.

Thanks for the response. I'm great with computers, but have no experience with Hoster, so the help is very much appreciated.

My client has opted, at least for the time being, to stick with the version of Hoster that he's been using. It works for him. Any computers I do for other clients who happen to be karaoke DJs will get whatever is the newest version, and I'll strongly recommend that those customers opt for WinXP over Vista.

My main solution to the problems was to uninstall Hoster and re-install it on drive C:. Strictly from a throughput standpoint, I'm honestly not sure why this should make a difference. Once loaded, the executable should reside in RAM and swap/virtual memory, and is much smaller in size than any of the KMA files that will routinely be ferried back and forth across the USB bus, but if it will solve the locking up, I'm game. After the change, we tested the machine in every way we could think to, and all appears to be well. I'll be hoping for the best.

The quantity of RAM, 512mb, is the amount that the client has been using to run his shows for over 4 years, so for the version of Hoster he's using, I feel confident that it's sufficient. I'll definitely adhere to the advised 1gb (or more likely ensure success with 2gb) for builds that include more modern versions of Hoster.

I should find out Thursday night or Friday morning how everything is going.

thanks,

Shaun

[admin]

Originally Posted by slsides

I should find out Thursday night or Friday morning how everything is going.

Shaun, how did things go for your client?

Just wondering, what Hoster version is he/she running?

We expect to release 3.321 today with all sorts of fixes for Vista. If this fails, I think we'll abandon Vista support.

An HP employee told one our Beta Testers that HP considers Vista to be 2 years away from being usable by the Public. He said they are allowing buyers to change to XP and replace Vista. That says it all from MTU's point of view.

[slsides]

Originally Posted by admin

Shaun, how did things go for your client?

Just wondering, what Hoster version is he/she running?

We expect to release 3.321 today with all sorts of fixes for Vista. If this fails, I think we'll abandon Vista support.

An HP employee told one our Beta Testers that HP considers Vista to be 2 years away from being usable by the Public. He said they are allowing buyers to change to XP and replace Vista. That says it all from MTU's point of view.

this is becoming quite a perplexing problem, but from what i can tell Hoster is not causing the issues.

jftr, it's hoster 2.2.1.9 on windows xp pro. amd sempron le1100 cpu, 512mb samsung 800mhz ddr2, 275 watt psu, radeon 7000 display adapter.

as recommended, i uninstalled hoster from the external hdd and re-installed it on drive C:, with the mdb and kma files still on the external.

after that was done, ronnie and i tested the setup for a good while here at my apartment. we did manage to lock hoster up one time, but before and after that incident everything worked just fine. ronnie says that it has always been the case that hoster could lock up if you're moving the mouse or entering information into the search dialog or something like that at the exact instant that the song timer counts down to zero.

everything seemed to be rock solid, but then thursday night at his show he said hoster locked up on just about every song, such that in many cases he had to reboot in order to even get a semblence of functionality again.

so i'm left trying to think of what is causing the difference between here and at the bar where he was doing the karaoke show.

• the singer's window was just small and not relocated to a secondary display
• the electrical outlet he was using
• the surge protector he was using
• i had him try both ps/2 and usb keyboard and mouse

. . . that's all i can think of.

i suggested we put another 512mb ram in and see if it helps, and that he try a different surge protector. i don't know the results of those measures yet, though.

shaun

edit: the "locking up" is that when the song timer gets to zero, instead of the song being removed from the playlist and the next song moving up to the top (ronnie uses manual mode), the program freezes with the song timer at zero and nothing else happens, then the program not responding notice shows up in the title bar.

[Beavis]

its cheaper to buy a new desktop thats up to speed !

[admin]

Originally Posted by slsides

jftr, it's hoster 2.2.1.9 on windows xp pro. amd sempron le1100 cpu, 512mb samsung 800mhz ddr2, 275 watt psu, radeon 7000 display adapter.

shaun

edit: the "locking up" is that when the song timer gets to zero, instead of the song being removed from the playlist and the next song moving up to the top (ronnie uses manual mode), the program freezes with the song timer at zero and nothing else happens, then the program not responding notice shows up in the title bar.

Good grief! 2.219 was released on 10/20/2004. There are so many bugs fixed alone since then that I have no doubt he is crashing. I expect if you studied all the upgrades from 2.219 to 3.321, you'd find we fixed exactly that problem.

If he upgrades to 3.321 now ($39.99) he gets a $49.99 credit towards Hoster 4.000 when it releases. He has nothing to loose, except time wasted staying with 2.219.

Tell him to upgrade!!!

[slsides]

Originally Posted by Beavis

its cheaper to buy a new desktop thats up to speed !

um, gee beavis . . . it's a brand new rig. :P i know, cus i built it myself.

[slsides]

Originally Posted by admin

Good grief! 2.219 was released on 10/20/2004. There are so many bugs fixed alone since then that I have no doubt he is crashing. I expect if you studied all the upgrades from 2.219 to 3.321, you'd find we fixed exactly that problem.

If he upgrades to 3.321 now ($39.99) he gets a $49.99 credit towards Hoster 4.000 when it releases. He has nothing to loose, except time wasted staying with 2.219.

Tell him to upgrade!!!

i may have to recommend that course of action. it still confuses me as to why his old rig still runs with no real problems. and why the new one runs fine here at my apartment but not when at the bar. **** annoying :(

[Beavis]

Originally Posted by slsides

um, gee beavis . . . it's a brand new rig. :P i know, cus i built it myself.

i didnt realize it was a custom built computer. memory is cheaper

[OneEskalera]

Avoid doing anything on holster before the "playing Karaoke file" near to its end time. I also experienced such small inconvience on holster 3.310 once in a while. And my solution to that problem is just avoid searching while the song being played is near its end or make sure you're fast enough to finished the information you need to enter before times reaches zero and changed to the next queu. If holster freezes up just hit "control alt del" to bring up window task manager (XP) then close holster and you'll be able to restart holster again on the last state it was normally closed with the updated entree. Other inconvenience I encountered on 3.310 was the song being played just stop on 0.01 sec and would not change to zero, this I have to hit the "stop button" and go to my next song. Just minor inconvenience and would not stop my show at all.

[ddouglass]

If OneEskalera is right about having to manually stop each song, then the answer would definately be to upgrade as that bug was fixed in a later version. It didn't effect everyone if I remember right. I don't think more memory is the answer.
Shaun, I know it may be a bit unorthodox ( I am/was an IT tech until I retired last October) but may be the only way to see exactly what is going on.

[OneEskalera]

I tried duplicating the problem I encountered in Holster 3.310 ( Holster freezing up when I'm on searching or entering information while the song about to finished/ and about to queued to next song on the playlist) on Holster 3.315, it does not happen on Holster 3.315 for both XP and Vista. So I assume upgrading to the latest holster version is my next step. I still used holster 3.310 on our main karaoke computer (Desktop, home built by yours truly) and did not have any major problem or issues. My home (practice units) karaoke computer were laptops, one with XP home just recently upgraded to 3.315 and new Hp laptop with Vista Home Premium with holster 3.315. So far they both working fine with Vista having UAC disabled. But I'm thinking to switch Hp(vista) to XP if I coud get a free XP from HP because I'm comfortable with XP properties than Vista. I prefer my karaoke computer to be a desktop with microatx form factor because I could built it and troubleshoot it myself if there's some problem and issues unlike laptop. For about twelve years now, I'm building my home computers and by reading some thread in this forum and some related links, gives some helpful ideas when to upgrade and what upgrade I needed. I'm still waiting for Holster 4.0 for my next software but I'm tempted to try holster 3.321 just to find the new features in it. Like i said, I'm satisfied with 3.310 and more than satisfied with 3.315 even I just had for 3 weeks now and most probably be twice more than satisfied with the latest version.

[ddouglass]

Originally Posted by OneEskalera

I tried duplicating the problem I encountered in Holster 3.310 ( Holster freezing up when I'm on searching or entering information while the song about to finished/ and about to queued to next song on the playlist) on Holster 3.315, it does not happen on Holster 3.315 for both XP and Vista. So I assume upgrading to the latest holster version is my next step. I still used holster 3.310 on our main karaoke computer (Desktop, home built by yours truly) and did not have any major problem or issues. My home (practice units) karaoke computer were laptops, one with XP home just recently upgraded to 3.315 and new Hp laptop with Vista Home Premium with holster 3.315. So far they both working fine with Vista having UAC disabled. But I'm thinking to switch Hp(vista) to XP if I coud get a free XP from HP because I'm comfortable with XP properties than Vista. I prefer my karaoke computer to be a desktop with microatx form factor because I could built it and troubleshoot it myself if there's some problem and issues unlike laptop. For about twelve years now, I'm building my home computers and by reading some thread in this forum and some related links, gives some helpful ideas when to upgrade and what upgrade I needed. I'm still waiting for Holster 4.0 for my next software but I'm tempted to try holster 3.321 just to find the new features in it. Like i said, I'm satisfied with 3.310 and more than satisfied with 3.315 even I just had for 3 weeks now and most probably be twice more than satisfied with the latest version.

Call HP Support and you can request to upgrade that HP laptop with Vista to XP. They will send you a disc to do that.

[slsides]

well, thought i'd post an update to let folks know what's happening with my situation.

based on the advice i received here, i put the new version of hoster (3.3.2.1) on the computer, and i added ram to comply with the recommendation of 1gb.

my client set the new computer up on thursday night for the big test. the equipment was solid as a rock. you can't imagine how relieved i was.

the only comment i got from the client was that the play and stop buttons are reversed from the positions they occupied in the version of hoster he's been accustomed to. because he used that version for so long, he's used to clicking play and then starting to adjust the sound levels without even looking at the computer screen. so he found himself clicking the stop button a lot of times and then realizing a couple of seconds later that no music was starting. so other than wondering why the buttons locations were switched, i'm feeling pretty good right now.