copying & replacing hd

[George]

Originally Posted by billyo

..didnt mean to caused anything..just trying to find some help..

No problem...all is cool here. That's the one thing I have against the written word vs eyeball to eyeball... the written word takes on a character all it's own.

[ddouglass]

No problem here either. Sometimes George and I just have different methods.

[billyo]

Originally Posted by ddouglass

No problem here either. Sometimes George and I just have different methods.

nice to hear that, but anyway, since reading all this, now i am comfused, whats the diff. between cloning and creating an image i thought cloning is making and ecxact copy of my hd, and creating an image is making a duplicate copy?

[George]

You're right, cloning is making an exact working copy of your main hd.

Let's say you have cloned your c: to d:

C: takes a dump. You're in the middle of a show. You can switch to D: immediately, and continue on. Later you can clone d: to c: to do a restoration. You must use two drived with cloning...a USB drive for laptops, either type for desktops.

Same scenario with an image file:

Forget switching drives immediatly and carrying on. You must use a bootable disc to open the image file to restore the system.

Imaging create a file with your hard drive info compressed in that file. This image file is not fully operational, and if needed for restoration, must be activated with a bootable disc which you create prior to creating the image file. The image file can reside on either another drive, or the same drive..Personally I think it's playing Russian Roulette to have it reside on the same drive. If the drive fails mechanically, you're up a creek.

Once again it's a matter of choices. I prefer the complete security offered by cloning that imaging just cannot compete with.....IMHO

Only disadvantage I see to cloning is, in that it is an exact copy, it requires the same amount of room as the primary data. No problem if you use two identical size drives, or a larger drive for the backup.

Imaging obviously was the way to go a few years back, when drives were expensive, and USB wasn't around... but now???

From what I've read on the forums, either Acronis or Norton Ghost will do either process.

I hope I haven't skewed any facts in either direction.

[UPNext]

Originally Posted by billyo

nice to hear that, but anyway, since reading all this, now i am comfused, whats the diff. between cloning and creating an image i thought cloning is making and ecxact copy of my hd, and creating an image is making a duplicate copy?

Here is an interesting write up on the Acronis solution. I presently use Norton Ghost but this does sound much more flexible.

Introducing Acronis True Image 8.0: True Disaster Recovery
Recently voted best disk imaging solution by our Readers, some of the features provided by Acronis True Image v8.0 include:

• An Easy to Use Interface: Simply click "create image" and Acronis' built in Backup Wizard will guide you through 8 Simple Steps to begin backing up your entire system.
• Works within Windows: Unlike inferior MS DOS-based disk imagers, Acronis True Image never requires you to restart your computer in order to complete an imaging backup operation.
• Split Image Files: Image files can be stored on permanent media (such as another hard drive), or on removable medium (such as ZIP disks, CD/DVD-R, etc). If the image is too large to fit on the destination medium, True Image can split the image across multiple volumes.
• Store Images Remotely: Image files are typically quite large in size; in addition to storing the backup on a local computer, True Image also provides the option to save the image backups on a remote PC -- perfect for laptops and older PCs that are short on storage space or don't have a CD burner to store the backup!
• Explore Image and Restore Single Files: In addition to restoring an entire volume, users may choose to extract single [or multiple] files by exploring an image file.
• Full and Incremental Backups: True Image is one of the few disk imaging solutions to offer both Full Image backup as well as Incremental Imaging, which only backs up new or changed data from a previous backup set.
  
  Side note: If you choose to save all your image backups to CD or DVD media, incremental backups can save a substantial amount of time, medium, and money in the long run.
• Scheduler: Automate your backups using Acronis' built in scheduling mechanism -- also a great feature for making regular incremental backups!
• Test Backup Medium: Backing up your data is completely pointless if you can't restore it; Acronis True Image uses bit-level verification to ensure 100% data integrity and restorability of your images -- even after you burn them to CD or DVD.
• Built-in CD and DVD Burning: Image files can be archived directly to CD or DVD. Note that DVD burning requires additional packet writing software (which comes standard with many applications such as Nero Burning ROM, Easy CD Creator, etc).
  
  Side note: If you don't own Packet Writing software, you can save your image files to another location and then burn to DVD using any CD Mastering application.
• Bootable Rescue Media: In case Windows is inoperable or your hard drive is no longer startable, True Image offers bootable Rescue Media that allows you to revert a previous image backup in a stable environment.
• Great for Seamless Hard Drive Upgrades: Transfer Windows and all installed programs from an old (smaller) hard drive, to a new (larger) hard drive: a perfect solution if you're looking to upgrade your hard drive and don't want to reinstall Windows and all your applications on the new drive.

Acronis True Image 8.0: Using it on My Machine
Installation went relatively smooth, except for the fact that True Image gave me an error message when I tried to create a bootable CD Rescue Disc.
I later found out it was because my particular brand of DVD burner [Sony DW-D56A] uses a "non-standard driver," which conflicts with the CD creation process.
But not to worry --
After searching the official Acronis True Image web forums, I found a simple workaround which involved booting Windows XP into Safe Mode, launching True Image, and then choosing to create the rescue disc from the main menu.
With my Rescue Media now burned to a CD-Rewriteable, I decided to test the boot disc by rebooting my computer. Sure enough, the disc started and the Rescue Media screen appeared.
Satisfied that the bootable Rescue Media was working as it should, I rebooted my system once more and created my first image backup. There were 8 steps in creating my image:

1. Choose Hard Drive to Backup
2. Choose Save Location
3. Choose Full or Incremental Backup
4. Choose Automatic or Fixed Image File size
5. Choose Compression Level
6. Password Protect your Backup
7. Enter optional user Comments
8. Proceed with Backup

The interface was very straight-forward and easy to use. In all, True Image took roughly 25 minutes to image my 10 gigabyte C drive [Windows] partition, write it to DVD Recordable, and test the integrity of the backup.
Acronis True Image 8.0: Compatibility
Acronis True Image 8.0 recognizes all hard disks connected to the PC, along with a wide variety of removable media drives with P-ATA (IDE), S-ATA, SCSI, USB, IEEE1394 (Firewire) and PCMCIA interfaces including: CD-ROM / DVD-ROM and CD-R/W recorders and burners, magneto-optical drives, Zip and Jazz devices, and many others.
True Image 8.0 works with Windows XP, Windows Me, Windows 2000 Professional, Windows NT 4.0 Workstation Service Pack 6, Windows 98, and supports FAT16/32, NTFS, Linux Ext2, Ext3, ReiserFS, and Linux SWAP file systems.
Conclusion
If we lived in a perfect world: Windows would never crash, Spyware wouldn't be nearly impossible to remove, and there wouldn't be any need to worry if a recent download has caused irreversible damage to the integrity of our systems.
With a 5-star rating from the editor's at download.com, and an overwhelming percentage of Gazette Readers in favor of the program, Acronis True Image offers premium PC protection that absolutely no computer user should be without.
Acronis TrueImage: 8.0 Download

[ddouglass]

George this will not work for a laptop.

C: takes a dump. You're in the middle of a show. You can switch to D: immediately, and continue on. Later you can clone d: to c: to do a restoration. You must use two drived with cloning...a USB drive for laptops, either type for desktops.

You cannot boot from a USB drive plugged into a laptop nor can you hook up a laptop drive (one that fits with the correct connector) as an external.
That is what I was trying to say before. The only way I can see him doing this is to setup a second cloned laptop drive before the problem occurs and keep it with his equipment. That way he could stop and swap out the drives. This would require creating a clone on an external, then clone that to the second laptop drive every time you make any changes.

[George]

Originally Posted by ddouglass

[color=black]You cannot boot from a USB drive plugged into a laptop .That is what I was trying to say before.

Would have saved a lot of hassle if you had just said that before Couldn't figure out where on earth you were coming from.

I just learned something new, so all this wasn't a total waste.

Was considering a laptop for using Hoster for our private Karaoke club. That's out for sure. Thanks.

[ddouglass]

George I don't know that I would rule out a laptop, as long as you have your desktop for backup. A lot of these guys use two laptops which would work too.
The real question is how many times have you had a hard drive fail completely in the middle of a show? Sometimes we can get over paranoid about it.

[George]

I hear what you're saying, but I don't want to be that one out of the thousand, or whatever the number is.

Not worth the convenience a laptop affords, in my situation. I host for a private Karaoke Club that my wife and I belong to.

Take care,

[UPNext]

it seems from what I have read that if the BIOS of a system (desktop or notebook) supports booting from a USB device you could use Acronis to "clone" your c:\ drive to a USB drive and then in an emergency change the Boot sequence in the BIOS to boot from the USB device. Older systems did not have this capability but newer ones do.

[George]

Originally Posted by UPNext

it seems from what I have read that if the BIOS of a system (desktop or notebook) supports booting from a USB device you could use Acronis to "clone" your c:\ drive to a USB drive and then in an emergency change the Boot sequence in the BIOS to boot from the USB device. Older systems did not have this capability but newer ones do.

Thanks UPNext. Now that you mention it, I do remember reading about a way to boot from some brand flash drives, and it did mention something in the article about the bios. Didn't interest me at the time, so I didn't bookmark it.

I had a hard drive take a dump due to bad bearings, which went a long way to develop my attitude against imaging on the same drive.

Thanks again for the heads up...I'll look into it if and when I decide to go laptop. Might even find a full blown hard drive with that capability. Things change.

[hwheeler43]

Merry Christmas all. I have two laptops. What I do is image both of them to a USB external drive. If one of the laptops fails I can hook the other up and continue the show. Then simply drop a new drive in the one with the bad drive and boot it from the bootable cd and restore the image on the new drive. It is all in what you like. I also keep a complete backup of all my song files on the external. I just cannot imagine losing all 3 drives at the same time. To each his own. Happy Holidays.

[billyo]

i downloaded the trial version of acronis mirror image 11 ( 15 day full function trial ) and it wont let me clone destinaton drive
" has to be empty "..

[George]

Norton Ghost will overwrite.

Kinda surprised that Acronis wants an empty drive just to create a image file, even for cloning, for that matter.

Cloning does replace anything on the target drive, so one has to be careful, but imaging replaces nothing, simply creates a compressed image of the source drive.

[bryant]

Originally Posted by George

Norton Ghost will overwrite.

Kinda surprised that Acronis wants an empty drive just to create a image file, even for cloning, for that matter.

Cloning does replace anything on the target drive, so one has to be careful, but imaging replaces nothing, simply creates a compressed image of the source drive.

I use Acronis and the destination drive (mine is 250 Gb) has to be completely empty and/or erased prior to cloning. I only clone a 40 Gb HD on this 250 Gb, sheesh.

george, I'm still confused about image and clone differences. Why one and not the other? Why have a choice of both, what difference does it make?

[hwheeler43]

When you Clone a drive you are making a boot drive copy of your existing drive. It cannot have other files on it. When you create an image you are taking a snapsot of your entire hard drive to an image file that can be restored to a new hard drive by booting your computer from a cd that you create and then restoring the image to the new hard drive. This image can be used much like a restore cd except you have all your settings and software on it. I hope this explanation is not too confusing. Also, Acronis does not need an empty drive to do an image. Just for cloning a drive.

[billyo]

Originally Posted by hwheeler43

When you Clone a drive you are making a boot drive copy of your existing drive. It cannot have other files on it. When you create an image you are taking a snapsot of your entire hard drive to an image file that can be restored to a new hard drive by booting your computer from a cd that you create and then restoring the image to the new hard drive. This image can be used much like a restore cd except you have all your settings and software on it. I hope this explanation is not too confusing. Also, Acronis does not need an empty drive to do an image. Just for cloning a drive.

acronis has both clone and image, so what would be the best and easy way of doing it..

[George]

It all depends on what you want.The cloning results in a fully operational drive without having to use a boot disc to restore the data on it to a working state.

Obviously since it seems Acronis needs a wiped drive to clone to, Norton Ghost would be the way to go if one elects to use cloning, as it will overwrite the target drive.

If one elects imaging, I guess it wouldn't matter, but I'm hard pressed to see why anyone would use imaging if they are going to use two hard drives.

I believe we've beat this horse to death, and it's getting very redundant, making the same points over and over.

It's all explained here:

http://www.ctpc.org/nltr1007/ae1007.htm

[billyo]

Originally Posted by George

It all depends on what you want.The cloning results in a fully operational drive without having to use a boot disc to restore the data on it to a working state.

Obviously since it seems Acronis needs a wiped drive to clone to, Norton Ghost would be the way to go if one elects to use cloning, as it will overwrite the target drive.

If one elects imaging, I guess it wouldn't matter, but I'm hard pressed to see why anyone would use imaging if they are going to use two hard drives.

I believe we've beat this horse to death, and it's getting very redundant, making the same points over and over.

It's all explained here:

http://www.ctpc.org/nltr1007/ae1007.htm

thanks for your suggestion, thats true we kinda beat this thing to death, but i was just trying to figure out what would be the best and easy way of doing it, kinda like taking a poll, what im trying to do it to replaced my laptops internal drive,( i have all my itunes music on this drive approx. 5,500 ) since i'm kinda running out of space, (19 gb left ) with a bigger one. i only have 1 ext. drive where all my kma files are stored..but anyway thanks..for everybody's suggestion..

[George]

Originally Posted by ddouglass

George this will not work for a laptop.

You cannot boot from a USB drive plugged into a laptop nor can you hook up a laptop drive (one that fits with the correct connector) as an external.

How about this? Industry is changing daily.

http://www.pcstats.com/articleview.cfm?articleID=1676

Bear in mind I'm making no suggestions that these guys mess with the bios, but it appears a tech could do it easily, motherboard permitting.

Now I'm back to thinking of a laptop and Hoster for our private Karaoke club meetings. May be some light at the end of the tunnel after all.