rate of pay around the country.

[SteveWalker]

Thanks for reminding me that this is thread about how much a KJ gets paid so we did get off track defining what a KJ, DJ and MC is.

So back to the topic of this thread please!
In Clearwater I know that KJ's made $250 for a four hour show in 1988 and today KJ's average $125 for a four 4 hour show. The average KJ could make much more money if they were more professional.

[bryant]

But then again, those who are not, accept the fact, lower the rate, get gigs, and then the avreage rate is lowered,
sort of supply and demand, especially if the bar owner is not concerned about a certain level of professionalism, just the amount of dollars that go over the counter.

In a "regulated" profession (notice I changed my choice of wording here), this would be against the law. But by nature, the kj/dj "profession", is not regulated in any manner, thereby exposing the "profession" to legal quacks.

[alanross]

Originally Posted by bryant

Alan, again, thank you for your advice on professionalism, it was read twice, if not three times.

I'm happy to share whatever I can with anybody who cares, if it helps increase the validity of Karaoke as a valuable commodity for bar owners.

As always, the devil is in the details - it's those little touches that will always set you apart from the rest of the crowd.

[bryant]

Okay, here in Central Maine, from what I've seen as in most of all Maine, DJ's, KJ's, VJ's that do bars seem to get somewhere between 100 and 200 dollars, even on weekend nights. This does not include the pay for those occasional "special" event things like birthday parties, weddings, functions, etc., just repeat weekly bar work.

I like to think that my minimun wage is 150 dollars, weekday or not. I started at 100 on a Sunday night a year ago at this place to get him started (new bar in town, where there is already too many) when I told him my goal was to work towards my minimum of 150.
Three months later we spoke and he wanted to be incremental about it and gave me 125. Then the summer came and I told him I couldnt work weekday nights anymore when the next school season begins, as I am a teacher, and he said I could pack up at 12:30, leave my stuff on stage and worry about it the next day. I live less than a mile away. All I have to do the next day is tear down and put stuff offstage as my equip. stays in the building. Then I asked if I was worth the 150 I originally spoke about. He said yes. So I figured that was a decent gig and could still get up in the morning and go to school to teach w/o killin' myself.

Now the question?
He recently offered me Monday and Tuesday too. He said that Monday would only be a DJ night for a few hours while a small crowd is there. How busy can a Monday night get in Maine, right. He also said, while you're here feel free to help your self to a few drinks or eats (also a restaurant).

How much do you think I should accept (total amount)for that guaranteed three night gig (max = 4 hrs a night and 2 on Monday), get home at 12:30 leave my stuff on stage all nights and simply move off stage to side on Wed. afternoon?

I'll tell you the last conversation we had after I hear from some of you. Please advise, however.

[kilith]

Originally Posted by bryant

Okay, here in Central Maine, from what I've seen as in most of all Maine, DJ's, KJ's, VJ's that do bars seem to get somewhere between 100 and 200 dollars, even on weekend nights. This does not include the pay for those occasional "special" event things like birthday parties, weddings, functions, etc., just repeat weekly bar work.

I like to think that my minimun wage is 150 dollars, weekday or not. I started at 100 on a Sunday night a year ago at this place to get him started (new bar in town, where there is already too many) when I told him my goal was to work towards my minimum of 150.
Three months later we spoke and he wanted to be incremental about it and gave me 125. Then the summer came and I told him I couldnt work weekday nights anymore when the next school season begins, as I am a teacher, and he said I could pack up at 12:30, leave my stuff on stage and worry about it the next day. I live less than a mile away. All I have to do the next day is tear down and put stuff offstage as my equip. stays in the building. Then I asked if I was worth the 150 I originally spoke about. He said yes. So I figured that was a decent gig and could still get up in the morning and go to school to teach w/o killin' myself.

Now the question?
He recently offered me Monday and Tuesday too. He said that Monday would only be a DJ night for a few hours while a small crowd is there. How busy can a Monday night get in Maine, right. He also said, while you're here feel free to help your self to a few drinks or eats (also a restaurant).

How much do you think I should accept (total amount)for that guaranteed three night gig (max = 4 hrs a night and 2 on Monday), get home at 12:30 leave my stuff on stage all nights and simply move off stage to side on Wed. afternoon?

I'll tell you the last conversation we had after I hear from some of you. Please advise, however.

I guess if you want to quote him on a price it would depend on how busy the bar is during the days you are working there. If you are brining in a very nice croud then really you should get a decent profit. If it is only 10 people in the bar then yeah 100 to 150 a night is a good price. However if it is 30+ people in the bar on them nights take 30 people * $2.00 a beer (it is like 3 to 4 here so I am giving a very decent low price on beer) and that is $60. If you then play 4 hours that is $240.00 but we all know people drink more then 1 beer an hour. So throw in 2 beers an hour and that is $480.00 and yes that is a very big profit for a small bar.

So if you get $150 a night and he wants to add 2 more nights I would maybe go with $375? That would be like 125 a night and you also have your foot in the door pretty well it seems and you are giving him a small deal for having you there more then 1 night a week. I used to do a 3 night a week Thursday, Friday, Saturday and charged $200, $250 and $250 but cut $100.00 off because of being there 3 nights so i was making $600 for a Thursday, Friday, Saturday night. If you want to stick to your 150 a night which is $450.00 and take off $75 I think he should take it. If you make it sound like they are getting a deal and $75.00 is a lot of money to a bar they are more likely to say oh I am saving money so why not. Even if it is $325 - $350.00 for all three nights I think you would still make out pretty decent and it is a for sure job.

I do mine by hour. I charge $70.00/hr and if they go 5 hours I drop off $50 and charge $300.00 if they do 2 nights I drop off another $100.00 and charge $500.00. I then also get free drinks on top of that. Even though I mainly drink Mountain Dew lol. A beer here or there but not often.

[alanross]

bryant,
kilith asked the right question... how much money is the bar making on the nights you're there? If you're bringing people into the place, you deserve to get your best rate.

If the owner asked you for the extra nights at a discount, then you should consider how much to discount. If he just asked for the two extra nights - why on earth would you be the one to suggest a discount? Guilt? Fear? Embarassment? Get over that real quick.

If you have to negotiate, always begin negotiations with more than you expect to get. You may be surprized how much more they're willing to pay.

Think of it this way, If you got a booking for another place in town on a Monday night, you would be making $150.00 for the other place. So don't start your negotiations at any less than $150.00/night.

If the owner balks at that price, Hmm and Haw for a minute, scribble some nonsence on a piece of paper and then tell him you could probably do the extra two nights for $140/night, but Sunday would have to remain at $150. I know the temptation is to reduce your rate in $25 increments, but who made that rule? That's just silly. Any reduction in price will seem like a deal to the owner. Whether he's saving $10.00 or $50.00 is only important if a number has already been presented. In other words, if you've already discussed a $50 discount and then you come back and tell him you can give him a $10 discount, he's not gonna be happy with that. But if you've not discussed any discount, not even a range within which you might be willing to work, then even a $10 discount is giving the owner something for nothing.

As far as the perks of playing at his place:
How much are you really eating or drinking before or during the shows? I find that most bar owners offer this, but few KJs take real advantage of it. It's likely that this little benefit doesn't really pay you anything.
The fact that you can leave your stuff there was part of the original deal when you made $150.00, so why charge less for the same benefit on two other nights?
You got to leave early when you were charging $150. Again, he had accepted that term, so begin negotiations at the same level.
Don't capitulate before the process even starts.

Most negotiations are lost before they begin, because one of the players has already decided what their low number will be and starts the bidding right there. If you hit 'em with a high number, it may shock them, but they aren't going to throw you out of the office before you have time to barter down. Even if you have to shout, "Okay, I'll do it for less! Name your price!" as the bouncers are dragging you out the door by either arm, you will have time to amend your opening bid. Don't be afraid to shoot high.

But don't shoot too high. This will make you look like a fool who doesn't know what he's doing and again you will lose the negotiation. Your opening bid should be a number that you can justify. Like starting your bid at $150/night and saying, "That's my regular rate. If I'm playing here on Mondays for less than $150 and I get a booking for Mondays elsewhere and they're willing to pay the $150, I'd be losing money every night I stayed here."

As a bar owner, I'd probably still offer my low amount, but I'd add that if you got another booking for a monday night at another place, I'd be willing to cover the difference - at that time.

The point is, ask for more than you'd expect and see how much you can walk out the door with. This is a business. Business is all about profit.

[Lonman]

Don't know about anyone else, but I like to give the club a discounted rate if they book multiple 'in a row' nights - especially if I can leave the equipment set-up for the nights. More nights, more percentage off. Starting price is $175 per night. Discount 5% per extra night. If the nights are broken up, the discount does not apply.

[bryant]

Alan, thanks, these are some other variables I didn't mention the first time.

I see. Here's my situation again. The owner called me in and said he had a proposal to make. So he was going to initiate the figures.

Also, there already is a guy on Tuesday nights (there main karaoke night) that is already bringing in a huge crowd, mostly college kids, on Tuesday. I know he was working for 100 dollars. But he isn't well liked in the area, personality lacking, etc.

Monday night is just a background music thing to keep a few ppl there at the bar for a few hours, maybe several hours. It'll never attract a large crowd, No one in Central maine attends bars on Monday, they never have, never will, so I am not expected to bring in a crowd either. And there is no where in the State where I could work on that night and make the 150 I do on Sundays, or work at all period. There also is no place in the area that has a Tuesday opening anywhere. Oh, I could drive 60 miles and perhaps find one. But not going to. Their Thurs. Fri. and Sat. DJ who packs the place on weekends only gets 100 a night, and he drives up from 60 miles and removes and reloads his equipment each night.

And the only reason I will accept these gigs is because I live a mile away(less than) and will not have to even touch my equip. between sunday and wednesday. On Monday and Tuesday I leave everything completely set up. Don't move anything.

His offer was 300 for the three. I told him that's only 75 a night for Mon and Tue. as I was making 150 on Sunday as it was. He stated that Sunday was not a really big night (and it isn't around here) and that it wasn't a 150 dollar night but he wasn't the kinda guy that was gonna ask me to take a cut after he had allowed the increase about 6 months ago from 125 to 150. And that being offered three nights a little reduction would be in order. My response was, I can do it for 350, that would sorta make 125, 125, and 100, spread out over those three days, hmmm. He responded with I think you're worth it I wanna keep you happy, let me start you off with 325 and after eight weeks, no discussion required, the bartenders will be told to pay you the 350. He will, as he has been honest about those type of increases in the past, and really respects my loyalty. This will be a little tough during the school year as I teach in the morning and wasn't really looking for another weekday gig, but summer's coming and if I can make it to then , it'll be a cinch.
Tuesdays WILL die down because ppl leave for the summer and college kids go home.
With all of this in mind, what would YOU DO or say in response to all this?

I can stay on Sundays only for 150.

I can in eight weeks be making 350 for three nights, leave at 12:30 no packing, no removal, no setting up on Mon or Tue, either, and walk home in less than 5 minutes. And let it breeze thru the summer. I prolly drink 5 or 10 bucks worth of soda or beer and another 10 for food there w/o paying as well.

Or tell him to stick it.

My weekends are full and my Wed. gig is 150 and really easy so will always hang on to those.

[kingjames]

the amounts i've charged has always been directly proportional to the circumstances, (1)is this gig a good and long lasting one.
(2)am i comped on food and drink
(3)does it pay the same year round
(4) and do i have to break down and haul or leave my equip.
1 yr was the shortest time frame i played at a bar. 8 yrs 3.5yrs, 1yr, and 1 at the current, and looks like it will be for many more. 2 night a week @200.00 a night. more if holidays like halloween new yrs ect. If a band can get 500.00 a night and only know 25-30 songs and I have 14,000Hmmm.

[jleekaraoke]

I Totally Agree With You, I Have Tons Of Gigs That I Have Had For Years...i've Raised My Rates Somewhat, But Not Too Much, Usually When The Bar Has A Good Night I Get An Extra Bonus So They Are Very Good To Me....... I'm Starting To Have Problems With Bmi...the Bars Can't Even Advertise Because Bmi,, Finds Out, Then Contacts The Bar For Money...it Sucks... 2 Months Ago I Went Totally Computerized With Over 70,000 Tunes And A Huge Dj Library........(less Is Best When It Comes To Setting Up) Anyways.. That Is The Problem I'm Having Now Is With Bmi... Everything Else Is Cool

[capnvic]

I have to be on the low side of 200 dollars, since most of the gigs I get are either Moose Lodges , the American Legion or some other service org. These places generally don't get the hassle of outside groups like BMI or ASCAP.

The shows are steady and I usually do one to two shows a weekend. The only exception is if it is a party or reception, then my rates are changed accordingly to the going rate for these functions.

[bryant]

Originally Posted by capnvic

I have to be on the low side of 200 dollars, since most of the gigs I get are either Moose Lodges , the American Legion or some other service org. These places generally don't get the hassle of outside groups like BMI or ASCAP.

The shows are steady and I usually do one to two shows a weekend. The only exception is if it is a party or reception, then my rates are changed accordingly to the going rate for these functions.

Ditto