Dipping my toe

[Glen Goergen]

that each and every emcee realize one very simple fact!

"if you bargain with life for a penny....Life will pay no more"

I just have to say that while I know absolutely nothing about this industry and it's inner workings it would seem to me that there are certain things that would be constant.

Amount of capital investment in equipment, cd's, software, mics, lights, monitors, mixers, players, amps, speakers etc

Travel and setup time

Show time

teardown and travel time

transportation expenses

trailer expenses

Fuel

Insurance for auto and trailer

Public liability site insurance

clothing/props

song books

Now! if you add all those things up and devide by $300 that should tell you how many shows you need to do in a year to just barely break even, provided of course that you don't increase the amout of songs you have or invest in more equipment.
Still want to work for $250 a night??

When I have all my stuff setup and ready to go, I know I will not do a paying gig for less that $450 a night and that is for a 4 hour show and I don't care if others are charging $150, what they do has no effect on me or my productivity. If I am denied my price I'll book shows at local nursing homes and do those for free before I would permit some barkeep to devalue what I have to offer!

From all the things I've read about payscales and value it seems clear to me that few if any folks have a clear understanding of what it takes to run a business, and/or how to promote their own value to a potential client.

Just my 2 cents worth

Warmest regards
Glen

[mindonstrike]

You can build a million dollar home in a hunded thousand dollar neighborhood but that doesn't mean you'll ever get any where near a million dollars for it.

It doesn't matter what your expenses are, you are only worth what the market is willing to pay. Start lining up those nursing homes

Sam

[Garry A. Leslie]

Hello All,
This forum is getting very philosphical!
Here in the UK £75-£100 a night ($100-$150) is pretty regular.
You really have to play in a large venue which is pulling plenty of cash drinkers to get more.
Yes there are too many KJ's who don't care, have lousy equipment, work cheap and yet have extensive books, making one wonder how legit they are.
Bar owners also don't care, you won't get a decent fee unless you haggle.
No one automatically offers you what you think you are worth.
Incidentally doing free gigs for seniors clubs and other charities can be quite fulfilliong in itself and a hell of a lot more appreciated.
Regards from across the pond.
Garry

[Glen Goergen]

Originally Posted by mindonstrike

You can build a million dollar home in a hunded thousand dollar neighborhood but that doesn't mean you'll ever get any where near a million dollars for it.

It doesn't matter what your expenses are, you are only worth what the market is willing to pay. Start lining up those nursing homes

Sam

My Dear Sam

Million dollar home in hundred thousand neighborhgood???? Of course you will, in most communities thats called Gentrification, it's done all the time, Ask Donald Trump

I disagree very strongly, It does matter what your expenses are! Thats what dictates what your minimum charges should be in order to have your baseline covered. Thats part of a good business plan, and without it you'll surely fail.

How can you even think that your value in your chosen industry (no matter what industry may be) if you're self-employed is dictated by "what the market is willing to pay"?

Your value is self determined!

When I was teaching Stained Glass work, my competitors were giving classes to teach the craft for $25 - $50. When I opened my shop everyone told me that was all I should charge, 2 weeks later I placed a $50.00 ad in a local advertiser. A simple two line ad "Stained Glass Instruction limited enrollment 7 openings left. $250.00
My First class had 22 students, and the back end sales after class completetion averaged $400 - $600 per student with continued on going sales of equipment and supplies. Meanwhile the $25 - $50 folks where slowly folding their tents and leaving the fields. I continued to "bring in the sheaves" until my life, shop and home where destroyed by a major fire. But the point is ....IF YOU'RE SELF EMPLOYED THE MARKET NEVER DECIDES WHAT YOU ARE WORTH UNLESS YOU DECIDE TO PERMIT IT

Oh Yeah! Those nursing/retirement homes???? Just imagine how many parties, weddings, graduations etc I might obtain because the relatives think to themselves " Let give this guy a play Mom/Dad had such a good time and he was kind enough to entertain at the home for free, and even if I never get a single booking from that veneue, what the hech it'll make me feel real good.

So you see Dear Sam " if you bargin with life for a penny ....truly life will pay no more" And therefore you, not the market plsace have determined your own value

Warmest Regards
Glen

[Garry A. Leslie]

Hello Glen,
I know you were addressing your remarks to Sam, but as I also mentioned
charitable functions, I'm drawn in.
I only suggest doing the odd engagement, certainly not with the hope of getting a paying gig from it, and definitely not as a full time non-paying job.
You should, without doubt, ask what you think you're worth, but I think the general concensus is that if you really want to run a karaoke you have to take the going rate. Try by all means to raise the ante but unless you are prepared to turn your back on it as a matter of principle you will have to accept.
As already pointed out there are plenty of lowballers waiting and most bar owners know absolutely nothing about the real costs and care even less, so unless you increase their take you're whistling down the wind.
Regards from across the pond.
Garry

[Glen Goergen]

Originally Posted by Garry A. Leslie

Hello Glen,
I know you were addressing your remarks to Sam, but as I also mentioned
charitable functions, I'm drawn in.
I only suggest doing the odd engagement, certainly not with the hope of getting a paying gig from it, and definitely not as a full time non-paying job.
You should, without doubt, ask what you think you're worth, but I think the general concensus is that if you really want to run a karaoke you have to take the going rate. Try by all means to raise the ante but unless you are prepared to turn your back on it as a matter of principle you will have to accept.
As already pointed out there are plenty of lowballers waiting and most bar owners know absolutely nothing about the real costs and care even less, so unless you increase their take you're whistling down the wind.
Regards from across the pond.
Garry

Hi Gary
That whistling down the wind...is that something you guys across the pond do??? Is that why you lost the war roflmao

Seriously Garry all kidding aside and no disrespect intended. The only thing you HAVE to do is die and pay taxes...and I know some folks that don't pay their taxes, but thats another show. Why base your activities on what someone/everyone else is doing??? That just doesn't make any sense at all. In real Estate they always scream LOCATION, LOCATION, LOCATION!

Maybe what needs to happen in our industry is to start screaming EDUCATION, EDUCATION, EDCUATION!

And it starts with the operators/emcees not the veneue owners!
Raise your value! Unless you bring a horse to the veneue you are not a JOCKEY of any kind.

What you really are is a Producer, Director and Emcee! Present yourself that way professionally and back it up with your package and your clientele will respond accordingly.

General concensus??? Are you serious??? If your mates generally thought it was a good idea to jump in that river you have over there ....you know the bigs one LOL Would you do it too???
Geeeez folks, come on lets have a little positive attitude about ourselves and stop worrying about the lo-ballers. Do something about it! 1st educate yourselves! 2nd edcuate your prospective clients! Set your standards and stick to them. Plan your business and work your plan!
We're not talking about rocket science here, it's just plain common sense !

In my tri state area there are a lot of lo-ballers but the interesting thing I found is they are all trash and not worth their lo-ball price, as a matter of fact if you paid some of them their actual worth they would owe you money. Nothing worse than an ill dressed unkempt emcee, because that shws their whole package right there. And most of those that I have seen play in veneues that reflect their attitudes, so why would you want those veneue anyway? Garbage in = Garbage out .
I also found a guy that commands 500 - 600 a night for a 5 Hr show and this guy is booked up until Sept. 2006. He's been in business for about 8 years and has a plan and follows it. And like any professional he presents his contract, goes over it with his client and if they don't agree to his terms he bids them good day and NEVER LOOKS BACK! This gentlem is a real professional and has 8 systems in operation every week.

He didn't get there by worrying about the lo-ballers, or by accepting what the "Market" dictated. He got there by due dilligence, hard work and educating himself first and his clientel second, buy dressing for success, he shows up with his contract well dressed and well groomed he looks expensive, and has no problem walking out withy out a signature and deposit.

Ok Much as it's going to kill me I'll say no more on this thread!

However should you wish to avoid and or get out of that $150 rut...Watch for my new book "Perfect Pitch, Perfect Speed" A dummies guide to becoming a producer/director/emcee, without going bankrupt! copyright Moneysworth publishing 2005

" A rut is merely a grave with the ends kicked out of it"

Warm Regards
Glen

[bjswaim]

The low pay from the bars is why I no longer do bars, unless they pay my rate, which is $125 per hour with a 4 hour minimum, which comes to $500 per gig. I will occasionally get a one-time job at a bar for a special party. But, my business focuses on private parties, which I have no problem booking at my rate. I can do as little as 2 private parties per week for an income of $1000 instead of 5 bars per week for a grand total income of $750. The math just doesn't add up for me to do bars, as you can see. My time, talent, investment is worth much more to me. I will not give it away.

[Glen Goergen]

Originally Posted by bjswaim

The low pay from the bars is why I no longer do bars, unless they pay my rate, which is $125 per hour with a 4 hour minimum, which comes to $500 per gig. I will occasionally get a one-time job at a bar for a special party. But, my business focuses on private parties, which I have no problem booking at my rate. I can do as little as 2 private parties per week for an income of $1000 instead of 5 bars per week for a grand total income of $750. The math just doesn't add up for me to do bars, as you can see. My time, talent, investment is worth much more to me. I will not give it away.

I rest my case
Warm regards
Glen

[bobcox- with the Lord]

ive been dealing with those half price KJs for 8 yrs now. and have stuck to my price. i still get bars calling me to replace them at my price.
I saw a kj get paid $22.50 for 41/2 hours one night and he was in bussiness for 2 yrs before i started. (I now own his equipment) bought him out 4 yrs ago. bar owners think karaoke is karaoke, but sometimes they wise up and then you will get your price. STICK TO IT. we have KJs in this area that will work for drinks but most get $125 for 4 hrs. i would not load my van for that. if your good you will win. sound and selection has kept us on top for 8 yrs now and it doesnt hurt to have a beautiful woman at your side who is friendly and curtious to the cust. Bob