Dipping my toe

[BooBoo]

Thanks for the advice gotrich, Danny and Party On. I am taking it all in. I know it was a lot of questions all at once! ha! I've sent you a PM Gotrich.. I would like to see the booklet. That will go along way in helping me come to a mutual understanding with the owners. I realize it's more difficult than doing it for free. now you are working for both the owner and the singers. Keeping everyone happy can not be easy. I've been to some of the shows in town and quite frankly, I have not been impressed. They all have disks and fumble through them. Sometimes the disks work, sometimes they don't. I went to a show last Friday night and the guy got my song wrong EVERY TIME! We corrected it twice then finally I just sang whatever came up.
He has also had trouble with the monitor mix in the past.
These are areas I know I can excel in. I find songs very quickly, and my system is designed so you don't need a monitor mix. The crowd hears what the singer hears.. Much more simple, it always sounds great and people love to sing with it. I am hoping that by being able to provide the best sound and getting more singers up during a show, I can provide a better product for the owner.

What times do you folks run your shows to?
How do you handle assisting singers. I've kinda thought that was a no no unless they ask for it.. I don't assist now unless I am asked and that seems to work best for me..
Anyway, thanks again and I look forward to more feedback..

[danny_g]

Originally Posted by BooBoo

Thanks for the advice gotrich, Danny and Party On. I am taking it all in. I know it was a lot of questions all at once! ha! I've sent you a PM Gotrich.. I would like to see the booklet. That will go along way in helping me come to a mutual understanding with the owners. I realize it's more difficult than doing it for free. now you are working for both the owner and the singers. Keeping everyone happy can not be easy. I've been to some of the shows in town and quite frankly, I have not been impressed. They all have disks and fumble through them. Sometimes the disks work, sometimes they don't. I went to a show last Friday night and the guy got my song wrong EVERY TIME! We corrected it twice then finally I just sang whatever came up.
He has also had trouble with the monitor mix in the past.
These are areas I know I can excel in. I find songs very quickly, and my system is designed so you don't need a monitor mix. The crowd hears what the singer hears.. Much more simple, it always sounds great and people love to sing with it. I am hoping that by being able to provide the best sound and getting more singers up during a show, I can provide a better product for the owner.

What times do you folks run your shows to?
How do you handle assisting singers. I've kinda thought that was a no no unless they ask for it.. I don't assist now unless I am asked and that seems to work best for me..
Anyway, thanks again and I look forward to more feedback..

In answer to your first question as to what time I run my shows till, it depends a several things- 1:When you start, 2: when the place closes, 3:How much I get paid. Ok let's go with my question Number 3 as it decides when I start as my prices have a locked amount with an overtime amount listed in my contracts. I will do a 4 hour show for $100 with a $25 dollar setup tear down fee. If they want five hours that's $25 more as I do my hourly rate at $25 an hour which I feel is reasonable for a bar gig. I charge more for private parties. Now say it is a thursday night, where I am the law states that the bar has to close by 1 am. I always shut down a half hour before the shoe to get time to tear down and pack up my wires, mikes and laptop while closing up my rack. It also gives the bar time to get their customers out of the bar by 1 am. So 4 hours before 12:30 is 8:30 but personally I actualy start the karaoke end of it at 9 as singers in our area come out half an hour after my scheduled start so I play filler music at the start of my show. As to assisting singers You have the right idea. I will only help them if asked, nine time out of ten they don't. The tenth time usually a female wanting to sing a duet (normally it is either Picture, Paradise by the dashboard lights, I got you babe or Summer nights).

[G-Force]

Danny G, you really need to raise your rates. 125 for a four hour show is ridiculously low. A good rule of thumb is start negotiating at 225 for a four hour show. If you have to settle at about 150 to get the gig I can understand that but anything less is just insane. I am sure you are worth much more than that. Think of how much you have invested in equipment and music. I easily have over 20,000 dollars in cdg's alone, not including the equipment or dj music. Don't sell yourself short. You are walking in with 30,000 dollars worth of equipment and working for 125? Be careful you will get the reputation as "that guy who does karaoke for $125", and you will have a hard time getting more. Bar owners do talk to each other. I know this from experience. That and rates like that make it difficult for all KJ's to get what they really deserve. I remember a time when a 4 hour weekly bar gig paid $350. I only wish that was the case now, but the scumballs running burns have ruined it for all of us legitamate operators.

[danny_g]

That would work if there weren't nine or ten who work for even less.
The market is saturated with low ballers that don't care what they make how long they are in business and bar owners who don't give a hoot whether they are any good aor not.
A buddy of mine who has also gone digital lost a bar to some guy who went in for free.

[Part On!]

there are some around here that are basically willing to play out for pocket cash (around $75.00-$100.00) and food and drinks.

[G-Force]

I have been battling those 75-100 dollar a night folks here too. These people really piss me off. I remember a few months ago I walked into a show near my house and saw the KJ sleeping behind the booth! Needless to say I walked out of that club with 2 nights a week at 150 but two weeks later the owner tried to talk me down to 100 because thats what sleeping ugly was charging him a night. After a heated discussion, I walked out. It was a shame, because I could have made him a ton of money. But I will Not work for less than 150. I offer a hell of a lot more than these clowns that are charging 75-100 a night. One thing I have started doing is "making friends" with these 75-100 a night people and educating them on what they can really make. I have finally gotten through to two of them around here and they are now charging appropriate fees and thanked me for it. A lot of them do it out of ignorance of what they can actually get as opposed to maliciously undercutting the competition. What we need to do is educate these lowballers on what to properly charge, and it will make it easier for all of us to get what we deserve.

[danny_g]

Originally Posted by G-Force

I have been battling those 75-100 dollar a night folks here too. These people really piss me off. I remember a few months ago I walked into a show near my house and saw the KJ sleeping behind the booth! Needless to say I walked out of that club with 2 nights a week at 150 but two weeks later the owner tried to talk me down to 100 because thats what sleeping ugly was charging him a night. After a heated discussion, I walked out. It was a shame, because I could have made him a ton of money. But I will Not work for less than 150. I offer a hell of a lot more than these clowns that are charging 75-100 a night. One thing I have started doing is "making friends" with these 75-100 a night people and educating them on what they can really make. I have finally gotten through to two of them around here and they are now charging appropriate fees and thanked me for it. A lot of them do it out of ignorance of what they can actually get as opposed to maliciously undercutting the competition. What we need to do is educate these lowballers on what to properly charge, and it will make it easier for all of us to get what we deserve.

These same lowballers in my area either go to every bar that already has karaoke and try to sell their goods. Once in a while they get a bar owner who just cares about the cost of having karaoke, but most of the time they just laugh in their face but use their approach as a menas to try and jew down the present KJ. I've started using the "yeah but if I do that we go back to the risk of skipping songs, not having ceratin songs and for that matter a dull show as I can't play the same games I play with just a disc system. No more Kamakazi Karaoke (yeah I could do it but then I can slant the results, which is the biggest complaint in the area of the disc based people.

[jonnyrock]

Years ago, I play a bar for tuesday and thursday nights for five years for $125 a night (9:30pm - 1:30pm). The bar was doing between $2000 to $5000 a night. The bar was pack with Singers, Dancers and Drinkers.

So I ask for a for $50 night raise (only after five years) and the owner drop me like that. The owner went through a ton of difference DJ/KJ and even bought his owe gear. I spoke with one of the bartenders about three month ago, and they drop the Tuesday night show, they only have 4 singers a night mostly and no dances and the bar is lucky to do $500 on a Thursday. Bar owners don't usually care about how many songs in your books, how often you update them, how nice your books look and how current you are on DJ music.

The way we do bars another more is $175 for Sundays to Thursday, $200 for Fridays and $250 for Saturdays (hopefully were to busy to be in a bar on a Saturady night). We may start off on a trial period of 6 weeks for $150 a night, then after the trial period their agreement to pay our rate or we move on.

jonny

[mindonstrike]

Originally Posted by G-Force

Danny G, you really need to raise your rates. 125 for a four hour show is ridiculously low. A good rule of thumb is start negotiating at 225 for a four hour show. If you have to settle at about 150 to get the gig I can understand that but anything less is just insane. I am sure you are worth much more than that. Think of how much you have invested in equipment and music. I easily have over 20,000 dollars in cdg's alone, not including the equipment or dj music. Don't sell yourself short. You are walking in with 30,000 dollars worth of equipment and working for 125? Be careful you will get the reputation as "that guy who does karaoke for $125", and you will have a hard time getting more. Bar owners do talk to each other. I know this from experience. That and rates like that make it difficult for all KJ's to get what they really deserve. I remember a time when a 4 hour weekly bar gig paid $350. I only wish that was the case now, but the scumballs running burns have ruined it for all of us legitamate operators.

How much someone makes in a market other than your own is a bit irrelevant. Supply and demand seems to be working in G-Force's favor but that's not the case in many markets including my own. Nobody's been able to command 225 around here in several years. As more and more singers see "easy money" in karaoke, start doing their own shows, the supply just gets bigger faster than the demand gets bigger. My area was just hitting the saturation point when I started 5 years ago and is now totally awash in karaoke companies. Unless you are lucky enough to pick up an indian casino the market around here is paying 100 - $150.

Sam

[G-Force]

Being totally awash in karaoke companies isn't the problem. The problem is that people are settling for these low rates. If everybody held out for more they would get more. We all need to band together and work to bring the rates back up.
Not too long ago I had a 2 night a week gig I took from one of those 100 dollar a night people. Since it was 2 nights a week I gave the guy a break at 150 a night for 4 hours. Not two weeks later he wanted to lower my fee to 100 a night and I walked. Boy was he surprised! He called me back a couple weeks later. Too bad for him because I had already filled both those nights at 200 a pop. If I go about 40 minutes west of here I can get as much as 275 for a 5 hour show on a weekend. And this in the Chicago Suburbs. And if you think it isn't saturated out here, think again. We even have a local magazine dedicated to karaoke! See http://www.karaokenitelife.org If you offer a premium service, they will pay for it. Just make sure you have a way to differentiate yourself from the others and you will get it.