I can't stand it

[BigMike]

Considering, since before Christmas, I have been uploading CDs with every spare free time I had, to load 500+ CDs into a program I bought, Researched, and learned how to use, (yes in that order.) Having someone pay $2k and get the computer, the library, and no training. It does bother me. What bothers me even more is, I have not been a KJ for a while now. I told him I was getting this program and entering my music into the computer and since I told him I was doing it and now, he bought the computer and library and has been using it. Like he wanted to be better then me even though I have not been in the bussiness or a rival to him in a long time.

I did talk to him about being illegal and he told me that the 30,000 songs were part his (his collection) part others (their collection) and if they get raided they would just get all of the CDs together and give to the guy who is being investigated. The only way to end this is to have them all be investigated at the same time. It is legal to combine several people's libraries to make one big library and they all can use that library as long as they do not have gigs at the same time.... we all know they do and that's where it is illegal.

[George]

Originally Posted by BigMike

It is legal to combine several people's libraries to make one big library and they all can use that library as long as they do not have gigs at the same time....

Just where did you get that from....him?

George

[DJYale]

*cough*e-bay*cough*

Think I may have seen this one. Saw a system on e-bay for sale that included the aformentioned player (pretty sure I know exactly which one).

The ad was for the system, a player, a library of KJ songs and a library of DJ selections. Said he had been using it for shows, and you *cough*had to delete the songs if you didn't own the disks*cough*. (They put that in because it's an e-bay rule that if you don't you can't sell it through e-bay.)

Funny part was, saw like 6 of the systems all from the same seller with the same description. Musta been a hell of a show to need 6 systems and all ...

[BigMike]

It is legal to copy your library of music as a back up and use the back up and save the original. So if you have four people do that and share their library and none of them use it at the same time how would that differ from the same four people sharing the CDs? If they do not have copies of their music but four people share their CDs there would be no way for them to play at the same time only one of them have the CDs. Now we are talking about using the backup that is on everyone's computer. if any of them have a gig at the same time then they are illegal... that's all I am saying.


Back to the point they are all having gigs at the same time and that's illegal as hell.

[George]

Originally Posted by BigMike

It is legal to copy your library of music as a back up and use the back up and save the original. So if you have four people do that and share their library and none of them use it at the same time how would that differ from the same four people sharing the CDs?

Sharing is illegal. File swapping is illegal.

I think you may be confusing that with not being able to use an original and a back up at two different shows, which is also illegal.

If you using a "shared" cd, then you can not produce the original cd that you OWN.

YOU must own the original of the back up cd you are using. YOU must own it, not the guy across the street, and if you can't produce it, everything you own related to KJ/DJ'ing including your home computers can be confiscated.

George

[BigMike]

I know what you are saying but the law isn't writen that tightly. If you and I were to make a deal that you would work Saturday thru Tuesday and I would work Wedneday thru Friday and we shared our library we could make a case if we had to.

The case would be. If I was using original CDs and had no copies of it and you had Original CDs with no copies. How would it be illegal if you gave me your CDs and I used them and then when it was your turn I would give you your's back and mine and you used them.

If it was a matter of how many backup copies there were then it would be illegal for me to make a backup of my hard drive with my library on it because I had the original and two back ups. the same could be said with you having my music on your hard drive with your music and me having my music and your's on my hard drive. As long as we had that agreement AND we did not overlap gigs. I bet to be safe and legal though we would have to have our music seperated in different folders to prove who's is who's. You know they are not doing THAT!! lol

[George]

Originally Posted by BigMike

I know what you are saying but....

There isn't any BUT about it. It is either illegal or it isn't and no amount of rationalization will change that.

The case you made in the rest of your post is file swapping, and that's illegal.

I'm sorry, but you cannot use my discs on Friday night and me use yours on Saturday, and be legal. If you really believe that and are willing to gamble on being able to "make a case if we had to".....good luck.

Take care(literally),

George

[BigMike]

Your saying that me using your CDs, not copys of your CDs is illegal? Would using your equipment be illegal too? What about DJing for you then I am using your music and your equipment and making money off it too. If I DJ for you and add my music to your selection is that illegal? then the next week I need you to fill in for me at one of my gigs. Would it be illegal for you to add your music to the selection while you were there?

Don't get me wrong, what bothers me about what these guys are doing is one guy is selling bootleg copies of music to everyone in Central Oregon. Making it cheaper for those guys to run a show then in turn charging less to do a show. This all spiraling down to the fact that honest KJs are losing money staying honest. Not to mention the program this guy is adding to the computer is also a boot leg, so is the OS the computer is operating on.

Most likely this guy is building the exact model computer and putting a ghost image of the original. The music is illegal, the Microsoft XP license is illegal, the host software is illegal, and any other software loaded on it like Word and Excel. This guys is building the computer for dirt cheap because the most expensive part of building a computer is the software and OS and selling it for $2000.00. More then it would caost to buy a brand spanking new PC with all the trimings. I buy a CD-G for $9.99 to $32.00 lets say the $9.99 CD has 10 songs that's a buck a song that's $30.000 worth of music these DJs are buying for $2k THAT'S Illegal.

[admin]

Originally Posted by BigMike

I know what you are saying but the law isn't writen that tightly. If you and I were to make a deal that you would work Saturday thru Tuesday and I would work Wedneday thru Friday and we shared our library we could make a case if we had to.

The case would be. If I was using original CDs and had no copies of it and you had Original CDs with no copies. How would it be illegal if you gave me your CDs and I used them and then when it was your turn I would give you your's back and mine and you used them.

If it was a matter of how many backup copies there were then it would be illegal for me to make a backup of my hard drive with my library on it because I had the original and two back ups. the same could be said with you having my music on your hard drive with your music and me having my music and your's on my hard drive. As long as we had that agreement AND we did not overlap gigs. I bet to be safe and legal though we would have to have our music seperated in different folders to prove who's is who's. You know they are not doing THAT!! lol

To my understanding from discussing this with one of the top digital rights Lawyers in the world whom I pay, and discussions with the copyright office lawyers directly, the OWNER of the disc can make a DISC backup copy, or FORMAT SHIFT to a hard drive copy.

It is ONLY the OWNER of the purchased discs granted the rights under copyright law. As George said, you don't own the songs. You paid a license to use one copy of the song, and only one copy with one backup. To transfer those copies to any other person IS ILLEGAL!

There is no question about that. Backup... means just that; backup to prevent loss. Swapping under any condition is ILLEGAL!

[Wallymeister]

My two cents,

I don't think BigMike is talking about file sharing.(per se) I think he's suggesting joint business venture. There is no copyright law that prevents DJ's or KJ's from joining two businesses (or assets) to one. OK let's say I own 100 disc's (originals) and you own 100 disc's and I want to KJ on Friday night and you want to KJ on Tuesday night so we enter into a joint venture as one KJ company if you will. We split the take. Where is the illegal in that? I totally agree with the pirating thing, it's not good for anyone except the one's doing it. (or at least untill they get caught) The same money is spent for 200 original discs and the same discs are being used for one gig at a time. Not rocket science. In a court of law that would be reasonable if you could prove as such. In a court of law you are suppose to innocent untill proven guilty, aren't you?

You and me go into a Music store and you put in $10 and I put in $10 and we buy a $20 disc. We both have rights to that disc. (the original) Only one backup can be made still. Where is that scenario illegal as long as the original goes back and forth between the two of us? Copyright law does not state that I can't sell this original CD on Ebay or give it away for that matter. It just says that I can't sell it or give it away and keep a backup for myself.

Entering into a joint business venture can be tricky in itself but that would only apply if you were ask to prove your ownersship of all discs and then your business partner wanted to deny a partnership. So yes that would create a problem but otherwise..............I don't think so.

Ok, maybe 4 cents
Wally