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[djbikeerrob]

PAY for an audit? how can they want you to pay for something they are unjustly accusing you of? If it is unjust that is? doesn't seem right. innocence should not have to be paid for by the accused.

[RIKKI TIKKI]

Originally Posted by djbikeerrob

PAY for an audit? how can they want you to pay for something they are unjustly accusing you of? If it is unjust that is? doesn't seem right. innocence should not have to be paid for by the accused.

Go to the Legal Forum on Karaoke Scene Magazine... You Can Gain Some Insight... And Read For Hours... Your Mileage May Vary!

[Rockrz]

Originally Posted by djbikeerrob

PAY for an audit? how can they want you to pay for something they are unjustly accusing you of? If it is unjust that is? doesn't seem right. innocence should not have to be paid for by the accused.

I think I'd tell them to go get a court order... because that opens the door for a counter suit when they find I've purchased all my own stuff, have the originals with receipts.

Then, you could sue for false prosecution because they would be using the court system to falsely accuse someone... which means you would be able to win a lawsuit for substantial damages.

Surely they get some evidence of wrong doing before trying to audit someone, right? Even the IRS doesn't just audit without there being some evidence of something not being right.

That'd be a good question... has anyone been accused by a manufacturer of wrong doing, taken to court and lost, and then got counter sued for damages?

[Lonman]

Originally Posted by Rockrz

I think I'd tell them to go get a court order... because that opens the door for a counter suit when they find I've purchased all my own stuff, have the originals with receipts.

Then, you could sue for false prosecution because they would be using the court system to falsely accuse someone... which means you would be able to win a lawsuit for substantial damages.

Surely they get some evidence of wrong doing before trying to audit someone, right? Even the IRS doesn't just audit without there being some evidence of something not being right.

That'd be a good question... has anyone been accused by a manufacturer of wrong doing, taken to court and lost, and then got counter sued for damages?

Yeah, many have thought that way as well that have ended up paying quite a bit and some getting their stuff confiscated BY a court ordered judgement against them.
Yes they do investigations, but unless you are using original discs, they cannot tell if your hard drive has actual stuff you shifted or bought off ebay - no way to tell and since SC was never sold on computer format (the GEM series is, but it's different colors than the regular discs), the only way they can distinguish is with an audit. Submitted by the kj or through the courts.
Haven't heard of any kj fighting it and winning to date.

[Rockrz]

So, if I buy a from a dealer on eBay... that doesn't count as being a legitimate purchase?

And, MTU says it's legal to put your VD+Gs on your hard drive... are they incorrect?

[Lonman]

Originally Posted by Rockrz

So, if I buy a from a dealer on eBay... that doesn't count as being a legitimate purchase?

As long as it's an original disc and not a counterfeit - it's a legitimate purchase. You can even buy a used original from someone and it will be just as legit. This isn't about buying discs, it's about how you ultimately use them. Play them straight from disc, no audit, no lawsuits. Shift them to computer, you run the risk of both. Cheaper if you go to them first, more expensive if you get named in a suit.

And, MTU says it's legal to put your CD+Gs on your hard drive... are they incorrect?

I'm not arguing with MTU's findings, just going by 1 manufacturer that IS actively suing and are winning in most of their suits for unauthorized copies of their product shifted from original disc to computer. Many of the other manus don't seem to mind at this time.

[Rockrz]

just going by 1 manufacturer that IS actively suing and is winning in most of their suits for unauthorized copies of their product shifted from original disc to computer

Well, if there is actual cases where the courts are ruling that you cannot convert your CD+Gs over to a hard drive... then that means you cannot legally do that.

I wonder if any music publishers are suing DJs for putting regular music on a hard drive and playing it in a public venue... cause if you can't do this with CD+Gs, then certainly you cannot do it with regular music.

[Rockrz]

Yeah, many have thought that way as well that have ended up paying quite a bit and some getting their stuff confiscated BY a court ordered judgement against them.
Yes they do investigations, but unless you are using original discs, they cannot tell if your hard drive has actual stuff you shifted or bought off ebay - no way to tell and since SC was never sold on computer format (the GEM series is, but it's different colors than the regular discs), the only way they can distinguish is with an audit. Submitted by the kj or through the courts.

Why pay for an audit if they are gonna say it's illegal to convert to a hard drive... sounds like the thing to do at that point is just quit... or start using the original discs

What do you do? Take all your originals and purchase receipts to each show in case the karaoke police show up?

[Lonman]

Originally Posted by Rockrz

Well, if there is actual cases where the courts are ruling that you cannot convert your CD+Gs over to a hard drive... then that means you cannot legally do that.

No there are actual cases that rule that shifting them WITHOUT their permission (again Sound Choice only at this time) is not legal. Going through the audit for Sound Choice will authorize the media shift.

I wonder if any music publishers are suing DJs for putting regular music on a hard drive and playing it in a public venue... cause if you can't do this with CD+Gs, then certainly you cannot do it with regular music.

Publishers won't go after dj's, they will go after the club they play in for the PRO fees - but if an illegal dj (no paid for music) is working there, then they will hit up the dj too.
Regular music do not have the same licensing. CDG is an audio/visual where as music is just audio. Sync rights do not apply, so different rules for non-cdg music. Stupid yes!

[Lonman]

Originally Posted by djbikeerrob

PAY for an audit? how can they want you to pay for something they are unjustly accusing you of? If it is unjust that is? doesn't seem right. innocence should not have to be paid for by the accused.

The only accusation is making an unauthorized copy to your hard drive which each discs state no unauthorized copies. If you use SC the choice is pay for authorization through an audit or wait until they sue you for making an unauthorized media shift & pay a lot more for the audit and court fees. Or no audit using original discs or no audit using no SC material.