Copying Multisession Discs

[Mustangt93]

My question is this. I don't like to talk about other software while I am in the MTU site, but another program does allow you to duplicate straight from one burner to the other without going thru the hard drive on a multisession disk. I have just recently purchase Microstudio so I am new to this but it looks to me like Microstudio does NOT give you that feature if it is a multisession disk. It looks as though you have to copy each track in from the multisession disk and then make a custom disk from that. Am I wrong? Is there a way to be able to copy straight from one burner drive (I have two Plextors) to the other on a multisession disk without having to go thru the hard drive and make a custom disk? Thanks...

[jim in ohio]

I too use the other program for some backups, If Microstudio, and clone were packaged together in my opinion, that would be the perfect package.

Rumor has it that the next version of Microstudio will offer disc at once ability with two burners, but have not heard anything about multi-session. That would be a good item for you to post on the new features request thread.

Using Microstudio you will need to use the custom assembly, just skipping the last track, the data track to backup multi session.

Jim

[Mustangt93]

Thanks for the info. I kind of thought I was going to have to do it that way. But with clone you don't have to skip the last track. You can copy the entire disk without cutting out the last track on these multisessions and it seems to work fine. So, if Microstudio were made with that feature just like clone (I'm talking only on the multisession, not the Mediacloq) then it should work the same way. A multisession disk is not necessarily a means of copy protection...although it does keep goldenhawk from being able to do it...LOL. I'm kind of curious about one thing,though...what happens to HOSTER if the CDG companies go back to protecting their disks? It will be impossible to host a karaoke show with your computer if you can't import the CDG songs because of copy protection. It's the one thing making me kind of leary of purchasing Hoster. As far as the ease HOSTER would give to a karaoke show, I'm all for it.

[jim in ohio]

We have 6 road units, I too am taking the wait and see approach on what the big three (Sound Choice, Chartbusters, and Music Maestro) do with Media Cloq, and how Hoster will be able to deal with it.
You know it's only a matter of time before they get brave enough to try it again, I'm sure they have worked the bugs out that caused all the problems with the combo players.

I'll never purchase a protected disc!!!!

Jim

[Mustangt93]

That's the problem...hoster probably won't be able to deal with it. That's why I'm very afraid to purchase it. Of course it would still save time and space to put the 12,000 songs I have in hoster and if they all start using protection for their disks, just have to keep a serparate case for those.

But, then there is still that problem with the disks messing up. If they mess up and you can't back them up, you have to buy that whole entire disks all over again. And I have some Sound Choice disks that are messed up that are only like a few months old!

I take VERY good care of my disks...it's just that sliding them in and out of those cases rubs that paint off of them. And there's no way I can keep them all in a jewel case like SC suggested. Oh yeah...carry around 1200 disks in jewel cases? The soft cases take up an entire 6 foot table as it is! I can imagine trying to carry around 20 or 30 jewel case holders!

To tell you the truth, if Sound Choice start protecting their disks again, I'll get out of this business. There is already way too much expense for the amount of money I'm bringing in. I only have one system and I try to keep up with all the new stuff. If I have to keep buying new discs and replacing old ones every few months it will be impossible to make any money. Nope... if they protect, I'm gone. Simple as that. But I will recoup the money I've lost on these damaged CD's mind you. I'm already working on that.

[kedmison]

Mustangt93,

I too was a little leary about making the jump. But I finally bit the bullet and have ordered Hoster and the laptop. There's too many people out working on ways around the anticopy protection. And my bottom line, is that if I own the original I should be able to back it up. As far as the paint peeling off the sound choice: I have about 4 Sound Choice discs in my system of 218 discs, about 4,300 songs, that I couldn't copy. Because I too fear the quality of the SC discs, I covered each of the four with a disc label. This helps protect the finish.

Kelly

[kedmison]

Mustangt93,...P.S.

I have talked too many other KJ who use the single try machine and have to individally handle the discs. The constant wear against their individual pockects does wear on them. I went with a Sony 400 disc player. Less wear and tear on the disc. And of course now I'll be going to no wear and tear.

Kelly

[Ernie]

The upgrade that's suppose to be here Wednesday the 20th, will have the Disc At Once with two writers.
When I called Sound Choice to complain about Media Clog, awhile back, I was told to return any damaged SC disc for a free replacement. BUT!!, you have to pay almost $6 for shipping and handeling!! I just sent two disc's in an insulated envelope to my brother. The insulated envelope was 30 cents, and the shipping at the Post Office was 89 cents. I really liked Sound Choice, but Chartbusters is looking better all the time!

Take care,
Ernie

[Mustangt93]

Well, look forward to the new version. That last time I contacted SC they told me that on any disk older that 1 year it would cost full cost plus shipping...in anything a year or less, it would be $5 plus shipping. But that's still too much money for a disk that's not even a year old. They should replace them for nothing. It's ridiculous.

[admin]

Do any other manufacturer's discs you have get damaged inserting and withdrawing from the sloft sleeves like Sound Choice discs?

Microstudio - We have added direct disc to disc copy, but... we are not using the RAWDAO method that Clone uses. That is an entirely different method that would cost us a LOT to code and debug. Plus, a CDR drive that can work with RAWDAO for duplicating MAY NOT allow copying individual songs to make a custom assembly (or rebuild a damaged disc), or play the songs on your computer. There are always tradeoffs in technology, and this is one of them.

Hoster and MediaCloq - We are concerned about this. We will start negotiating shortly with the major manufacturers to allow MTU to market their songs already compressed as MTU KMA files. We should be able to get around 200 songs per CDROM. Any manufacturer who refuses to work with MTU will suffer. We expect Hoster to be running a large number of Karaoke shows very soon. Thus, we will create a new market for songs to run on Hoster. If a manufactuer refuses to license us and provide a non-mediacloq protected disc, their songs will not be played... and they will lose income.

There are more and more ways appearing worldwide to obtain the music without vocals, and our KHPro software is being massively upgraded as I type to make it even easier and faster to add the lyrics in perfect sync. Also, we have been working on a Vogone upgrade that we feel might be patentable. If we can produce a production version of what we demoed in our engineering lab, we can change the face of Karaoke. :w

The results our Hoster users are reporting are exactly what we spend 4 years designing it to do.... albeit still incredible to hear! One report from England stated using Hoster takes one-tenth the time to manage the show versus using CDs. Another reported that his wife now wants to run the equipment while he is working the audience and the singers. Before, she was afraid to make a mistake with the equipment, but now she wants to do it! :c

[kjzone]

SoundChoice Discs.......

I have had a lot of trouble with the Vinyl Disc Sleeves that SoundChoice sells........manufactured by Univenture

they cause a chemical reaction with the printed surface on the various manufacturers discs.....especially Pioneer.

I have switch to CaseLogic and have had NO PROBLEMS in the past 2.5 years.

[George]

KELLY,

DON"T HOLD YOUR BREATH WAITING FOR ANTI-COPY GUARD DEVICES TO HIT THE MARKET. SOUND CHOICE & ASSOCIATES HAVE CLOSED THAT DOOR. READ BELOW, AND BELOW THAT IS A LINK TO THE SITE THAT IT WAS COPIED FROM. GOOD INSIGHT TO CURRENT COPYWRITE LAWS. HARDLY ANY SUCH THING AS PUBLIC DOMAIN LEFT, EITHER.


In order to transact commerce in the "digital environment," the entertainment industry is expected to rely heavily on anti-copying systems -- for example, systems that scramble digital signals or prevent second generation copying (that is, you can copy a work once, but not twice). In addition, copyright owners are planning to implement a system of embedded copyright management information (CMIs or "digital watermarks") in their copies. These CMIs will identify the copyright owner and provide information about the work.

To prevent the circumvention of these systems, Congress passed Title I of the Digital Millennium Copyright Act (the "DMCA"). This legislation outlaws "little black box" technology. A little black box is any program or device that undoes the copy-protection systems installed by the entertainment industry. Or as it's officially described, it's anything that exists primarily to "avoid, bypass, remove, deactivate, or impair a technological measure, without the authority of the copyright owner." There are criminal and civil penalties for those who make and market this technology. The prohibition against little black boxes goes into effect immediately. Under certain conditions, law enforcement agencies are exempt from these requirements.

http://www.nolo.com/index.cfm

George

[Mustangt93]

Well, this information is just a bit disturbing, George. All I can say is the quality of their CD's better get better if they are going to impliment something like that. Because if we are NOT able to backup disks incase of problems...especially with sound choice...they know they make disks of poor physical quality. I will just drop my karaoke business and move to a new profession before I will keep buying replacement disks from any of them. And I'm sure a lot of people will. A move like this will not only put karaoke companies out of business, it will also hurt the music industry too....although not as bad. SC and other companies will find out the hard way just how many loyal customers they have that run karaoke shows. When those people stop buying and go out of business because of this, they'll be sorry. A karaoke business the magnitude of mine and some others can't afford to keep replacing disks. I can't tell you how many I've had to redo lately just because they are unplayable due to whatever it is that makes those SC disks deteriorate in the cases. I have always used the Case logic cases and I take very good care of my disks, but no matter how much I try to take care of them, that paint on the front of the disk rubs off. I have disks in the early to mid Power Pick 3300's that are already messing up due to whatever this problem is. And it's not due to me abusing disks. Why in the world would I abuse something I'ver paid so much money to keep running. No one seems to have any loyalty to customers anymore. It's a sad day.

[kjzone]

Under current Copyright Law only Phonograph Records are protected.

The Digital Milennium Copyright Act "Did Not Amend" the current Copyright Law and stands alone and untested. Additionally it has not reached the status of "Positive Law".

Under the DMCA, companies such as SoundChoice are taking the position that "Digital Music" are "Phonograph Records" and enforceable under the current Copyright Law, but this position has not been tested by the Appellate Courts.

SoundChoice is using the threat of a law suits to make small karaoke services, caught using copied discs to sign a "Consent Agreeement" not to copy discs in the future in lew of a suit not being filed against those companies.

SoundChoice has also be found to not be paying the royalties to some copyright holders.

Philips NV, a dutch compay, who holds about 70% of the patents on digital coding has informed SoundChoice that they may not use the Compact Disc Trademark on their Discs, that contain the MediaCloq Protection, as it is a violation of Philips Trademark, because the use of the Trademark on Discs that will not play on DVD players is a violation of the rights the Trademark stands for.

Philips has also taken the position that they do not like the copy protection on Discs and has vowed to make future releases of their CD-RW units to be able to read all Copy Protection Schemes.

CORRECTION: Just checked on WestLaw and the DMCA did "amend" Title 17 of the US Code BUT "DID NOT REPLACE" TITLE 17. The DCMA still stands alone and subject to Federal District Court and Appellate Court interpretation based on the Court's reading of the Act and the Legislative History of the Act.

[Mustangt93]

Well, that's good to know...LOL. Let's just hope they always make the able to copy the CDG format. I'd buy philips in a heartbeat...LOL.

[George]

Gotta do some digging. I read recently that for copywrite purposes cd's have been classified as phonograph records, and are afforded the same protection, so don't breathe too easy on that point

George.

This isn't the same one I remember reading. This covers it, but is not as specific.

Music copyright - Copyrighting Musical Works - The copyright laws permit registration of sound recordings. Only sound recordings that have been "fixed" may be protected under the copyright laws. In other words, a work must be "recorded by any method now known or later developed" in order to receive protection.

http://www.weblawresources.com/Copyright/copyrighting-music.htm

[George]

NOW HERE'S AN INTERESTING TIDBIT...MORAL: UPGRADER BEWARE, OR DON'T FIX WHAT AIN'T BROKE!


Date: Fri, 12 Jul 2002 15:20:07 -0400
Subject: Fwd: [X Newbies] Copywrite protection now in CD recording software
Wrom: IYZUNNYCGPKYLEJGDGVCJVTLBXFGGMEPYOQKE
To: declan@well.com

You may wan to share this with Politechers.

Begin forwarded message:

>Date: Thu Jul 11, 2002 11:07:32 AM US/Eastern
>To: <X-Newbies@lists.themacintoshguy.com> (Mac OS X Newbies)
>Subject: [X Newbies] Copywrite protection now in CD recording software
>Reply-To: <X-Newbies@lists.themacintoshguy.com> ( Mac OS X Newbies)
>
>Just thought everyone might like to know that the latest update of Toast
>(5.1.4) has this paragraph buried in the licensing agreement. I would
>assume that this is present in the PC program EZ CD Creator as well:
>
>Just a few days ago, I retrieved the v5.1.4 update for Roxio's Toast CD
>mastering software. And was stunned to discovered the following verbiage
>placed within the license agreement's "RESTRICTIONS" section.
>
>
>Content providers are using the digital rights management technology
>("DRM") contained in this Software to protect the integrity of their
>content ("Secure Content") so that their intellectual property,
>including copyright, in such content is not misappropriated. Owners of
>such Secure Content ("Secure Content Owners") may, from time to time,
>request Roxio or its suppliers to provide security related updates to
>the DRM components of the Software ("Security Updates") that may affect
>your ability to copy, display and/or play Secure Content through the
>Software or other applications that utilize the Software. You therefore
>agree that, if you elect to download a license from the Internet which
>enables your use of Secure Content, Roxio or its suppliers may, in
>conjunction with such license, also download onto your computer such
>Security Updates that a Secure Content Owner has requested that Roxio or
>its suppliers distribute. Roxio and its suppliers will not retrieve any
>personally identifiable information, or any other information, from your
>computer by downloading such Security Updates.
>
>Note that these statements are nestled in the midst of a longer
>paragraph containing the usual stuff about not reverse engineering the
>software, with copy not directly related to these statements preceding
>and following these statements. Almost as if Roxio hoped that this
>language would not be noticed.
>
>This is apparently is why many people are having problems copying audio
>CD's with the latest updates.
>
>David Crandon


George
>

[jim in ohio]

So hanging on to our old slow burners, not upgrading the firmware, and using an old version of backup software, may not be so dumb after all...

Jim

[Mustangt93]

Well, I'm certainly going to hang onto my Sony CRX140E...that's for sure...LOL. It's sure been a godsend.

[George]

Form of Notice for Phonorecords of Sound Recordings*
* Sound recordings are defined in the law as "works that result from the fixation of a series of musical, spoken, or other sounds, but not including the sounds accompanying a motion picture or other audiovisual work." Common examples include recordings of music, drama, or lectures. A sound recording is not the same as a phonorecord. A phonorecord is the physical object in which works of authorship are embodied. The word "phonorecord" includes cassette tapes, CDs, LPs, 45 r. p. m. disks, as well as other formats.

The notice for phonorecords embodying a sound recording should contain all the following three elements:

1. The symbol (the letter P in a circle); and

2. The year of first publication of the sound recording; and

3. The name of the owner of copyright in the sound recording, or an abbreviation by which the name can be recognized, or a generally known alternative designation of the owner. If the producer of the sound recording is named on the phonorecord label or container and if no other name appears in conjunction with the notice, the producer's name shall be considered a part of the notice.

Example: 2002 A. B. C. Records Inc.


http://www.copyright.gov/register/sound.html

[George]

What is Multisession CD?
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

CDRoller considers a multisession CD as Data CD to which data was recorded incrementally in more than one session. Multisession CDs are recorded according to the Orange Book Part II standard.

Normally, you can access only the last session written on a multisession CD. However, you have two main reasons to access any session on a multisession CD at least. Firstly, when a new session is recorded, not all the files are copied from the previous one. Therefore, accessing the last session only, you have a chance to miss some data. Second, if the last session has damaged areas and some objects (files or folders) are not read, you can try to recover them utilizing the data obtained from previous session.

The program works with multisession CDs using own, i.e built-in session selector that allows you to access all sessions on the CD. You can also choose which session on a multisession CD you want to access - meaning that you are not limited to accessing only the last session, as compared with Windows Explorer.



Gonna let my ignorance show through here, but when you look at the definition of what a Multisession CD is, I've been trying to figure out right along how this applies to CDG's ever since this thread started, and why anyone would try to use Microstudio to copy them.

George:?

[Mustangt93]

Well, quite frankly I guess that would fall on me to answer, George. SC is what most of my karaoke collection consists of. Most of the time I will make a complete copy of a CD so it doesn't really matter much whether it's multisession or not...(unless it's Goldenhawk which can't copy multisession at all...unless you know how they say...which I don't) But I sing a lot and have to do shows where I need custom disks made. That's why I use Microstudio...clone can only do a complete copy of a disk. Microstudio is the only program that can take custom CDG songs off of a Mulitsession disk and allow you to make special CDG's for my singing shows and such. To end where I started, SC is the only CDG company I know of right now that uses multisession CD's for their karaoke. So I guess I need it for making custom songs from those. I think I explained this right...LOL.

[George]

Thanks Mustang93. I have not purchased a Sound Choice CDG in so long I did not know they were starting to employ that technique in Karaoke. Found out a long time ago if you don't know...ask:)

Thanks again,

George

[jim in ohio]

Top Tunes also use a multisession disc format on some of their discs, don't know what it is, not copy protection. I've backed them up with both Microstudio, skipping the last track, and with clone leaving it on. they both play in our players, but they are multisession.

Jim

[BETAMAX-UK]

oops wromg forum( oh no its not)

[BETAMAX-UK]

i too have clone cd aswell as microstudio but clone wont copy cdg how are you doing it????

[George]

BETAMAX-UK
Mine started working better when I increased the buffer size.
Go into tools,settings,buffer. I slid both over to the max. Can't hurt anything, except takes a tad longer to fill the buffers.

Hope this helps,

George

[jim in ohio]

Hello again Betamax,
In first screen you need to select the burner the master is in.

Here are the settings you need to have a check mark on, in second screen:

Read Subchannel data from Audio tracks and
Abort on read error

(nothing else with a check mark in this screen)

read speed set to: max
________________________________________________

Last screen you need to select the burner your blank is in.

Last screen check marks on:

Buffer underrun protection and
Always close last session

(again nothing else with a check mark in this screen)

Write mode set as"Raw Dao"
Write speed: I use 10X
________________________________________________

The trick to CD+G's is the subchannel data from audio tracks, that is where your graphics is located

Jim

[BETAMAX-UK]

Thanks george jim are we talking clone cd 4 here cos when i open clone i have the four cd icons for various applications.cant seem to do what you suggest

[George]

BETAMAX-UK,
I'm usng version 4.201. The four sets of options are READ TO IMAGE FILE,WRITE FROM IMAGE FILE,COPY CD(CD TO CD),ERASE CD.Put the original in the read drive and the blank in the write drive.
At the top, click on TOOLS, then SETTINGS, then BUFFER, and move the slides to the right.

Open the COPY CD DRIVE(3rd. from the left)
Select the read drive.
Select MULTIMEDIA
Check COPY ON THE FLY.
Select the write drive.
Uncheck SIMILAR WRITING.
Select MULTIMEDIA
Write speed(with the buffers all the way to the right I just wrote one at 40X) use what you're comfortable with and your burner will support.
Don't get upset if the buffer scales go into the red range, ESPECIALLY towards the end of the burn. I've had them go empty 75% through and still got good copies. It all depends on the drives keeping up with each other, so slow the write drive speed down acordingly if you have problems in that area.

take care,

George

[jim in ohio]

Betamax,
The screens I am telling you about are after you choose one of the icons,
___________________________________________________
First block on the icon is disc to hard drive, it records the total disc like microstudio to the hard drive, this is also where you will see the first and second screens

Second block records your image you just put on your hard drive to a blank disc. This is where you will see the last screen.
_______________________________________________
The third block is disc on the fly, you have one drive to read the disc and another drive to record the image on blank media. You will follow all the screen settings through this.

The fourth block is if you use cdrw media, it will erase the CDRW that has something on it that you don't want anymore.

Jim

[George]

Jim, what version are you using? I don't see some of the screens you're referring to in version 4.201, and it's my understanding they dropped some of the screens from earlier versions.

Take care,

George

[jim in ohio]

I'm using 3.3.4.1

Have 4 in my briefcase but did not like as well as my old one, so went back. In the old one you just select karaoke, hit load and go. That was missing from 4...

jim

I'll be glad when PM is back!!!

Gotta run, first time we have all six units booked, it will be a long night..

[BETAMAX-UK]

jim when i click on the first icon (read image to file) it then shows dvd-rom plexter and elby dvd rom when i click the second icon (write from image file) it shows i browes drop down box the third is copy the fourth is erase

[George]

Betamax-uk
Did you miss the instructions on page three of this thread, or did they not work for you? Things are kinda messed up on the forums right now thatnks to a turkey.Jim is not using version4.

George

[BETAMAX-UK]

Hi george im using version 4 the one jim is using. i have it but my s/n wont work with that version (3.8)

[George]

this is getting confusing. Jim said above he's using 3.341. That's why you are not seeing the screens he's talking about.I'm using 4., and the info I posted on page three is based on 4.

George

[BETAMAX-UK]

ok george i will try your way ps my mail server is down so i can only check replys when i come in the forum

[BETAMAX-UK]

george just tried your way i dont have a slider for the buffer(read speed etc) only a dropdown box im under the impression you think i have two cd-roms that read cd+g i only have one i think we have different versions of clone cd mines the new one clone cd4

[George]

I don't think any of us are getting email notices when someone posts to a forum we subscribe to. may be tied in with shutting down private messaging, or something.

take care,

George

[George]

Yes, I did think you had two cdg capable drives. I'm embarrased for making that assumption. :s Please forgive.

This brings up an interesting point though. If you have to write the image to the hard drive and then burn, why not simply use Microstudio? What does using Clone gain?

George

[BETAMAX-UK]

it copys NIKKODO george

[George]

Guess I'd not considered that because I've never had a problem copying NIKKODO with Microstudio either with the older versions, or the one we're currently testing, and on 98SE or XP. Funny how that varies from pc to pc. Must drive MTU nuts.

George

[George]

BETAMAX-UK

Now that we're on the same wavelength, I duplicated a disc using one drive and had no problem.


Click READ TO IMAGE FILE
SELECT DRIVE
NEXT
SELECT MULTIMEDIA AUDIO CD
NEXT
CUE SHEET OPTIONAL (I WENT UNCHECKED)
I OVERWROTE FILE(YOU MAY NOT GET THIS PROMPT)

TO WRITE
CHECKED WRITE FROM IMAGE FILE
OPTIONAL TO DELETE AFTER WRITE i TOOK DELETE
NEXT
SELECT DRIVE
NEXT
SELECT WRITE SPEED (I TOOK 10X CAUSE I USED A HIGH SPEED CDRW)

I UNCHECKED SIMULATE WRITING
SLECT MULTIMEDIA AUDIO CD
CHECK O.K.

That was it..
take care,

George

[BETAMAX-UK]

thanks george ive managed it now but my version of clone cd must vary from your cos the sequence is slightly different

[BETAMAX-UK]

Hi george i noticed somwhere in one of the forums that you said there is a demo for keyright can you tell me where??

[George]

I don't recall that...refresh my memory:?

George

[BETAMAX-UK]

my mistake george it was jim look for joker in forum index dated november

[George]

I don't know of any demo for Keyrite. I just took a second look and don't see one.

take care,

George

[BRIAN]

I have tried all my latest sunfly cd+g discs and all have this copy protestion on them making them inpossible to read the last two tracks so its not only sound choice that are getting up to this buisness.
Yet when carry out a custom assembly opperation leaving the last two tracks off the adding them at the next custom assembly they play fine from my hard disc.
but when i burn them to my cd rom it wont playusing the play tab.
My computer just goes and locks up.
I am using windows xp with a Yamaha cd writer model crw4416s.
I have now copied over 120 discs with no problem. any ideas.

[kjzone]

BRIAN.........

Give me the SF Discs Numbers......will check out on mIRC Channel to see what copy protection is being use, if not just simple MultiSession.

[BRIAN]

THE SUN FLY DISCS ARE AS FOLLOWS:
VOL 145 KARAOKE CLASSICS. VOL 147 KARAOKE CLASSICS.
VOL 144 KARAOKE CHART HITS.VOL 148 KARAOKE CHART HITS
VOL 149 KARAOKE CLASSICS. VOL 150 KARAOKE CHART HITS
VOL 151 KARAOKE CLASSICS. VOL 152 KARAOKE HITS
VOL 153 KARAOKE CLASSICS. VOL 2 ABBA
VOL 111 KARAOKE CLASSICS. VOL 58 KARAOKE CLASSICS
THESE SEEM TO BE THE LATEST DISC THAT I HAVE PURCHASED FROM SUNFLY.

[BRIAN]

JUST TO LET YOU KNOW HOW I THINK THEY ARE MULTISESSION, WHEN I TRIED TO COPY THESE USING THE DUPLICATE DISC TAB IT COME UP SAYING THAT THIS CANT BE COPIED BECAUSE IT HAD 2 SESSIONS.SO I ASSUMED THIS MENT THEY WERE MULTISESSION DISCS.
SO I USED THE CUSTOM ASSEMBLY TAB THE LAST TO TRACKS WHEN READING COME UP AS AN ERROR ONE TRACK WAS NEARLY 7 MINUTES LONG(WHEN IT SHOULD ONLY HAVE BEEN ABOUT 4 MINUTES AND THE LAST TRACK WAS JUST 6 SECONDS LONG.
SO THIS HOPEFULLY WILL HELP.
THANK YOU IN ADVANCE.

[kjzone]

Brian........

If these are MultiSession, in the last 3 days there was a Post in one of the Forums that told how to do this with MicroStudio.....
has something to do with ejecting the disc before, I think you finsh the copy process.....will try to find and link you to it.

[kjzone]

Brian.......

Here it is......

If you do a search in these forums for "Multisession", you will find plenty of information on this. What I can tell you is that when you are reading in the last track, before the hidden track, if you press the eject button, some clients are saying that this allows it to write the last file so you get all the songs, but not the last security track.

[kjzone]

Brian.......

You need to go to your User Profile and Enable E-mail and PM (Private Messages)

[kjzone]

Originally posted by BRIAN
THE SUN FLY DISCS ARE AS FOLLOWS:
VOL 145 KARAOKE CLASSICS. VOL 147 KARAOKE CLASSICS.
VOL 144 KARAOKE CHART HITS.VOL 148 KARAOKE CHART HITS
VOL 149 KARAOKE CLASSICS. VOL 150 KARAOKE CHART HITS
VOL 151 KARAOKE CLASSICS. VOL 152 KARAOKE HITS
VOL 153 KARAOKE CLASSICS. VOL 2 ABBA
VOL 111 KARAOKE CLASSICS. VOL 58 KARAOKE CLASSICS
THESE SEEM TO BE THE LATEST DISC THAT I HAVE PURCHASED FROM SUNFLY.

Just confirmed they are MultiSession, No Copy Protection.

P.S. If you have CloneCD you can copy MultiSession Discs without using any tricks. A straight forward copy, just select MultiSession Profile.

[BRIAN]

HI kjone

Just to let you know how got on everthing now working ok. Just a few tips that might work for others.
First I tried everthing that the forum suggested with no luck.
Then I did a down load for udated firware for my Yamaha cdrw and tried again and wow everything worked just fine using the method of selecting all but the last track in the import tab start importing and when the error message cam up Error:unable to read audio sectors 299632 to 299657 on device 2:0:0 ilegal comand request(04h 00h 05h 21h 00h ) I hit the eject button on the cd rom then hit the custom essembly tab at the bottom of the page hit the custom assembly tab at the top of the page then hit the tab add trac from hard drive selected the last track(the one that gave the error and wrote this to my blank cdr.
The quipment i used was:
Yamaha crw4416s cdr.
Firmware version no. 1.0j
microstudio ver 2.314
and using matsui blank cdr

[kjzone]

Brian.......

Good Job.....

Sorry.....none of us picked up on the Firmware upgrade. Don't know if this did it, but never hurts to upgrade the firmware.

kjzone

[BRIAN]

THE FIRMWARE UPGRADE REFERS TO MY YAMAHA CRW4416S THIS IS AN OLD DRIVE BUT IS STILL OK FOR COPYING CD+G DISCS.
THE FIRMARE WAS VER. 1.0f THE NEW FIRMEARE UPGRADE IS NOW 1.0j THIS I GOT FROM YAMAHA.COM.
MY DRIVE IS A SCSI DRIVE.
I HOPE THIS IS WHAT YOU ARE REFERING TO.

THANK YOU ALL VERY MUCH FOR ALL THE WORK EVERYBODY AS PUT INTO THIS FORUM.

[kjzone]

Brian......

After thought.....regarding Firmware Updates...

In a software Update, Adaptac Enabled a copy protection scheme that would keep you from copying discs before the update.

This was pointed out by one of the forum members and buried in the license text.

So he was warning us NOT TO UPGRADE THE SOFTWARE if you still want to be able to copy discs, with that particular software.

THE QUESTION ARISES......REGARDING FIRMWARE UPGRADES AND THE INTRODUCTION OF COPY PROTECTION.

APPARENTLY IT HAS ALREADY BEEN DONE ON A PIONEER DVD UNIT, BUT THE HACKERS ALREADY HAVE DEFEATED IT.

SO, I GUESS BEFORE WE DO A FIRMWARE UPGRADE, WE BETTER HAVE A BACK UP OF THE CURRENT VERSION, JUST IN CASE.

JUST RAN INTO THIS ARTICLE REGARDING PROPOSED COPY PROTECTION FOR HARD DRIVES.

http://www.theregister.co.uk/content/2/15718.html

DON'T GET RID OF THAT OLD SCSI YAMAHA, ONLY SOME OF THE OLDER SCSI PLEXTOR'S CAN COPY SOUND CHOICE "MEDIA CLOQ" COPY PROTECTION, EXTRACTING THE TRACKS OUT AS SECTORS USING GOLDHENHAWK.

WOULD BE INTERESTING IF YOU GET A MEDIA CLOQ DISC TO SEE IF THE YAMAHA SCSI CAN READ IT.

[BRIAN]

Hi
I tried to find the files for my old firmware version but could not find where it was kept. so I am affraid I did not back my old version up. So is there any way to retreive it or has it been completely overwritten.
I have got some sound choice discs that I have succesfully copied only one track where the texted lyrics was broken up but was all right on the original.
these are the sound choice disc numbers of the ones i have copied succesfully.
8178,8108,8121,8110,8110,8107,8154,8155.
hope this is of help to others who are having problems.

[George]

I'd thing the old firmware would still be on the cd that came with the burner, which you could re-install if ever need be.

George

[BRIAN]

I did not get a disc with my scsi drive only cd creator sofware

[kjzone]

Brian.......

All the SoundChoice you have, have no Media Cloq.

The Media Cloq started appearing on a lot of the 8700 Series.

I look at at my Yamaha and Plextor CD's that came with the Units, only see Software on the CD's (NO FIRMWARE).

Some Hardware Supplies have Older Versions of the Firmware still available for download, but not all.

So you still copy with the 1.0j upgrade, just besure you keep a backup copy of this version, before upgrading to a new version.

[George]

Depending on your os, wouldn't picking a restore point prior to the firmware upgrade get you back where you were for back up purposes ?

As far as making a backup of a drive's firmware,,I'll defer to KJZONE's capable hands, and learn something new myself.:)

George

[kjzone]

Don't think picking a re-store point will work, because when you update the firmware, you acutally "Flash a Bios Chip" within the CD-RW it'self.

[George]

Gotcha, but then how would a back up of existing firmware be accomplished? May need this for down the road sometime depending on the industry climate.

[kjzone]

Originally posted by George
Gotcha, but then how would a back up of existing firmware be accomplished? May need this for down the road sometime depending on the industry climate.

Don't think you can backup your current firmware already flashed in the CD-RW unit.

If you click on My Computer, Properties, Device Manager, CD-Rom, then the Properties of the CD-RW, then the settings TAB, you will see the Current Firmware Version.

Let's say it says v1.04.

Go back to manufacture's site and download, v1.04, maybe v1.03, etc. Save them it for a rainy day.

[George]

Gotcha, Brian may need this info also.

Thanks.

[kjzone]

Just thought of something.....

My current Plextor W-2410TA has firmware v1.04.
(Which I have a back up of.)

Was wondering if v1.04 would let me install v1.03 or not.
NEVER HAVE TRIED IT.

I know if you have windows 98SE it won't let you install windows 98, cause I have tried that.

A VERSION....... PREVIOUS TO THE CURRENT VERSION

? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ?

Looks promising at least from Plextor.....here is a link on my Plextor for Older Version Firmware.

http://www.plextor.com/english/support/downloads/firm_2410_old.html

[BRIAN]

Just been back to the yamaha site they only have the new firmware upgrade.
Anyway thanks a lot for all of you for helping me with my problems.

Happy New Year to you all.

[kjzone]

Just found this tid bit of news regarding firmware updates and copy protection......Looks like they are doing it.

***********************************************

CDRSOFT.NET published a very interesting piece on how the latest Plextor PX-W124TS & PX-W1210A firmware upgrades are "not able" to backup SafeDisc v2 protected CD's but that older firmware versions can!

They suspect that Plextor has made a deal with Macrovision not to support SafeDisc v2.


Just by downgrading the firmware to version 1.04 "solves" this problem and SafeDisc v2 protected CD's can easily be copied using CloneCD:

Plextor PX-W1210A v1.04 Firmware
Plextor PX-W124TS v1.04 Firmware

************************************************

[BRIAN]

Just as a matter of interest i was looking at an artical about c_dila and this loks like a copy protection file which i appear to have on my computer can sombody tell me if this is correct or have i got this wrong.

[kjzone]

Originally posted by BRIAN
Just as a matter of interest i was looking at an article about c_dila and this looks like a copy protection file which I appear to have on my computer can somebody tell me if this is correct or have I got this wrong.

Do not understand what you are saying.

1. What do you mean c_dila looks like a copy protectin on your computer.
2. Where on your compter?
3. Just check my XXClony and can't find any reference to a copy protectin scheme called c_dila.

P.S. Maurice Gibbs of the group Bee Gee's died today at age 53.
http://www.chron.com/cs/CDA/story.hts/ae/jump/1733087

[George]

http://www.privacyandspying.com/privacy-c_dilla.html

found the above, plus some others with internet search. haven't read yet, will do so shortly.

[BRIAN]

I found this whilst looking in my remove program utillity in control panel.
After doing a search the decsription i got when looking at the properties of the file is as follows.
Data Lifeguard.
Files Data Lifeguard NT.
Data Lifeguard MFC Application.
Does this help.
Have not noticed this on my pc before.
I wonder if it got downloaded from Microsoft as i have udate on all the time.

[kjzone]

Brian.........re: c-dilla

It appears this is a copy protection software from Macrovision that has been installed on your computer, via a download or spyware.

It keeps you from making copies of certain CD's that have certain copy protections on them.

Found a website says it appears in your registry under the name of "c-dilla".

You should be able to use any of the many registry editors to "Find" any registry keys that contain the name "c-dilla", each one of these has to be "deleted"

Make a back up of your current registry, even though it has the c-dilla in it, in case you delete some key other than a c-dilla key.
At least you can get back to where you were.

STRONGLY SUGGEST YOU ALWAYS RUN A FIREWALL, SUCH AS ZONE ALARM OR BLACK ICE, WHILE ON THE INTERNET.

ALWAYS DOWNLOAD TO A FOLDER YOU CAN SCAN WITH A "DAT "CURRENT VIRUS PROGRAM AND TROJAN PROGRAM, BEFORE RUNNING.

[BRIAN]

I am using Nortons antivirus and firewall which are both active all the time.
Well i did run it a couple of time with the firewall inactive.
How do i back up my registry Ive forgotton.
So if i go into regedit and use find for c_dilla and delete every occurance will this be ok.
So its no good going to remove program files in control panel and uninstall it from there.

[kjzone]

Brian...........

Here's a link to a neat little RegFind Program called RegFind v1.0.5. You can see this program has a 100% rating.

http://download.com.com/3000-2094-3748583.html?tag=lst-3-4

Download the program, run it, just put in c-dilla and it should find every registry key that has this name in it. Keeping the program open you open at the Start Run Menu "regedit"

Then using regit edit you go to every key displayed in RegFind and right mouse click on it and select delete. Do this of each entry, some entries when you delete one key, it also deletes a matching twin of it in another key. So after I delete a couple of keys, I run RegFind again to make sure I'm getting them all.

Backing up your registry........here's the way I do it, WIN 98se

Under my Documents I created a Folder called "My Registry Backups"

Next under Strart, Programs, Accessories, System Tools, you will find System Information.......open this.

Go to tools and run Registry Checker, if no errors, it will say do you want to back up, say yes. This is stored as a "Cab" file under a hidden folder in windows call "Sysbckup", to see it you have to go to My Computer, select View Tab at the top, select "Folder Options" Select "View" Tab and under Hidden Files check "Show All Files"

Note: Windows only stores 5 cab files, from the last 5 times your computer started correctly.

THIS IS ONE BACK UP........BUT NOW GO TO START-RUN AND PUT IN REGEDIT.....WHEN THIS OPENS GO UP TO "REGISTRY" AND CLICK ON AND SELECT "EXPORT" TO, YOU LEAD IT TO MY DOCUMENTS, MY REGISTRY BACKUPS AND SAY FOR A FILE NAME I USE THE DATE, SAY TODAY I WOULD PUT IN 01.12.2003, make sure you have under "Export Range" ALL CHECKED. AND NEXT CLICK ON "SAVE" YOU NOW HAVE A BACK UP IN THE SYSBCKUP FOLDER AS WELL AS "MY DOCUMENTS"

TO RESTORE YOUR REGISTRY AT ANY POINT I JUST GO TO MY REGISTRY BACKUPS, DOUBLE CLICK ON A DATE, YOU WILL GET A MESSAGE ARE YOU SURE YOU WANT TO RESTORE THE REGISTRY FOR THIS DATE, YOU SAY YES, YOU SHOULD THEN GET A MESSAGE THE REGISTRY HAS BEEN RESTORED AND YOU MUST RE-BOOT YOUR COMPUTER.

NOTE: MY METHOD STORES AS MANY BACKUPS OF YOUR REGISTRY AS YOU WANT.

IF YOU ARE LOCKED OUT OF YOUR COMPUTER, YOU USE YOUR START UP DISC, TRANSFERRING THE SYSTEM TO C: TAKE OUT THE START UP DISC, RE-BOOT THE COMPUTER IN THE SAFE MODE, GO TO MY REGISTRY BACKUPS, DOUBLE CLICK ON A REGISTRY DATE, AND RE-BOOT, YOU SHOULD THEN BE BACK IN.

NOTE: You can also restore your registry under Dos, at the command prompt type: SCANREG /RESTORE
At which time you will be give the last 5 CAB's to choose from when your computer booted properly.

I BACK UP MY REGISTRY BEFORE I INSTALL ANY NEW SOFTWARE AND YOU CAN MAKE A NOTE WHEN YOU SAVE, SUCH AS
SAVE FILE AS: 01.12.2003 REG BEFORE INSTALLING MICROSOFT WORKS, ETC.

ANY QUESTIONS.......LET ME KNOW

[George]

Would you believe I found two C_dilla files in my registry and deleted? Bet it's common and, like the article says, transparant.

[kjzone]

Just checked my registry and it's CLEAN for C-DILLA.

[BRIAN]

This is a realy wired one.
Done exactly what you said and got rid of c_dilla from my registry.
checked registry all gone.
went back to add and remove programs and ther it was.
Titled c_dilla licenced management system.
so tried to uninstall it and it came up with the following message.
Removing this software may prevent other products fromworking correctly.
Went to search for this file it was in a protected folder, checked in the box which allows you to see hidden folders and files and there it was an exe file for uninstalling. so what do you reckon should i delete this program in add and remove program or not.
the actual name of the unistall file is cdunin16.
See if you can get your teeth around this beauty.
I know this is not realy the forum for this type of thing but this may be a problem with copy protection.
thanks alot for your time.

[kjzone]

Brian........

1. I would expect it would be still there under Add/Remove

2. Go back to the Hidden holder and see if there is any "Sharded" file folder in it.

3. Where is the Hidden Folder and what is it's name?

AND LET ME KNOW

[BRIAN]

The files are located as follows they are in
c:\dilla\setup
the files are
cdains16.dll -77kb
cdains32.dll -90kb
cdunin -78kb
I hope this is usefall

[kjzone]

Brian.........

1. If the Hidden Folder does not contain any "Shared" Folder the go to Control/Alt/Delete and get rid of everything running but Explorer and Systray.

2. Then go to Add/Remove and try to remove.

3. The "dll" files you mentioned are not associated with any other program that I know of, i.e such as the cdains16.dll,
cdains32.dll, cdunin.

4. If the Add/Remove doesn't work.

5. I believe it's safe to JUST DELETE THE HIDDEN FOLDER.

6. Re-Boot the computer, check your registery again for c-dilla.

7. If the Hidden has an Un-Install.exe try that also.

8. If there is no shared folder, there's no link to anyother program.

[kjzone]

Brian..........

It SETUP WAS RUN FOR C-DILLA YOU WILL GET THE FOLLOWING ENTRIES IN YOUR REGISTRY. SEE LINK BELOW:

http://www.privacyandspying.com/c_dilla_install_report.html

[kjzone]

Brian....... Just found this.....

Do you use TurboTax by Quicken? Then you need to be aware that it has possibly installed a spyware trojan on your computer. We've had a thread running at the forums for a week or two about a third party application called C Dilla that is installed by TurboTax.

According to an article at privacyandspying.com, C Dilla is a copy protection program that installs without disclosure with certain programs such as game demos. It disables your CD burner when copy protected software is on your computer, monitors what copy protected software you are using and how, disables "certain" internet downloads, and possibly sends user data off to a remote server without permission.

Quicken makes no mention of this software anywhere on their web site (that I could find), although possibly there is some disclosure in the click-through EULA. Considering that it is illegal in many places to provide customer financial data to third parties without the customer's consent, if you use TurboTax to do other people's taxes for a living, this third party software might actually be causing you to break the law. I'm sure the application doesn't send financial data back to .... wherever ... but since it isn't discussed anywhere on the Quicken web site, how can we be sure?

C Dilla is now a target of Spybot S&D. At first the developer was worried that removing it might actually break one of these ridiculous copyright protection laws that Hollywood keeps buying in Washington D.C. I pointed out at Spybot's support forums that there is nothing illegal about a third party uninstallation program. Or that if there were, Microsoft was breaking the law itself with its add/remove control panel applet. I'd like to think that my argument helped persuade him to include this trojan as a removal target and I hope all the other spyware removal companies also add detection for it. Just be aware that removing C Dilla will most likely disable whatever installed it, as is the case with many programs that install spyware. Make sure your documents are backed up in a standard format and is accessible by whatever you replace it with.

[BRIAN]

Thanks for the info.
No I don't have Quicken for tax purposes but I do ues Quicken for my home accounts.
I also use the net for doing my Tax returns using the Inland Revenue site.
When I used the uninstall program it listed a progrm called A_Z maps which I had on my pc this is a london street finder.Asked if I wanted to delete this I said yes as I don't often use It anyway.
Now there is no trace of c_dilla on my system.
I hope thats the end of the matter.
Thanks again for all your help.

[kjzone]

BRIAN..........

I MUST THANK YOU FOR CALLING THIS MATTER OF "C-DILLA" TO OUR ATTENTION.

AS THE ABOVE ARTICLE SAYS, WHATEVER PROGRAM C-DILLA CAME WITH AND WILL PROBABLE BE DISABLED, ONCE YOU UN-INSTALL C-DILLA.

I JUST GOT TURBO TAX FOR HOME AND BUSINESS AND HAVE COPIED IT TO MY HARD DRIVE.......I'M GOING TO DISSECT IT, UNZIPPED EVERY CAB FILE TO SEE IF IT HAS THE C-DILLA IN IT.
IF I FIND IT I CAN PROBABLY DELETE IT "BEFORE I INSTALL TURBO TAX"

BUT, NOW EVERYONE SHOULD BE AWARE AND SEARCH THEIR C DRIVE FOR ANY MENTION OF C-DILLA OR DILLA.

KJZONE

[BRIAN]

May I thank you also for all the time you have spent with me on these topics.
THANKS AGAIN

[George]

Hi guys,
Thought just occurred to me that reference was made in the article we read regarding dilla that it used cookies to communicate
with. Seems like the prudent thing to do would be to delete cookies also, which I do on a regular basis anyway. Have to input user name and password when re-entering these forums, and a couple of pet sites, but that's a small price to pay to keep the spies out.

George

[kjzone]

RE:.........C-DILLA

I did a little more digging, believe that C-Dilla is a copy protection scheme. Originally an English Company acquired by MacroVision.
The C-Dilla program software program is on certain Software, such as Video Games, TurboTax 2002, AutoDesk, etc.

I believe the copy protection scheme is "SafeDisc" and AutoLok"

Apparently once you install a program, like TurboTax 2002, that this C-Dilla software is launched and you have to go through some Internet Code Registration procedure.
You can't put the program on another computer and copies and backup copies can't be made from the Original Software Disc.

TURBO TAX 2002 COMMENT LINK:
http://fish.netexpress.net/view/B00006ULHT/Software/229540

http://fish.netexpress.net/view/B00006UWRO

SAFE DISC HOW IT WORKS:
http://www.cdrinfo.com/Sections/Articles/Specific.asp?ArticleHeadline=CD+Protection+Overview&index=10

Some additional Links on C-Dilla:

http://www.c-dilla.com/
http://www.macrovision.com/
http://www.cdmediaworld.com/hardware/cdrom/news/9907/audiolok.shtml
http://www.cdmediaworld.com/hardware/cdrom/news/9906/c-dilla_cd_associates.shtml

HOW MACROVISION'S C-DILLA CHANGES YOUR REGISTRY
http://www.privacyandspying.com/c_dilla_install_report.html

AGREEMENT BETWEEN C-DILLA AND MACROVISION
http://contracts.corporate.findlaw.com/agreements/macrovision/cdilla.lic.1998.02.19.html

PDF DOCUMENT ON C-DILLA FROM "THE SPIDER WEB NETWORK
http://www.tswn.com/modules/news/printPdf.php?storyid=45

[BRIAN]

Hello again im back read your reply, yes very interesting stuff,
but whay can we do about this to be able to back up our own purchased software.
I took your advise and searched for anything that started with dilla and look what I found.

C:\windows
cdilla05.dll, cdilla10, cdilla13.dll, cdilla16, cdilla32.dll, cdilla40.dll, cdill64

c:\widows\Prefelch
cdilla64.exe-of-45051A

Shoul I delete these also

Notice there is no underscore after the d.

[kjzone]

Brian..........

Sorry it took so long for me to get back to you. I couldn't Log on and Post a message, have been working with Mr. Cox...got it working now.

Probably wouldn't hurt to go ahead and get rid of those files.

[BRIAN]

Hi Kjzone
I know this is not the forum but have you heard of a company putting copy protection on all new disc drives from this year.
I read about this on the following web site.
Have a look and see if this is the case.
The web address is http://212.100.234.54/content/2/15620.html
If this is the case we better bye new hard drives now before this happens.

[George]

....And don't forget the "if it don't be broke, don't fix it" theory and download firmware updates just to do it!!

George

[Ernie]

Brian,
Look at the date...It was written on Dec 20, 2000.

Unless all manufacturers went along with it, drives that do not have the protection would put the others out of business. If Plextor advertised that others had this and they did not, whose would you buy????
Whose software would they be protecting and why would they want to unless they were going to get a bunch of money for it...from each software company for each program....

Ernie