MTU.Community


Go Back   MTU.Community > Singers & Hosts Wisdom

Singers & Hosts Wisdom Post how to be a great karaoke singer or host.

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
  #1  
Old August 14th, 2009, 09:22 PM
Musicman51 Musicman51 is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Nov 2004
Location: Michigan
Posts: 575
Speaker Breakin Period

Do you believe a new speaker needs to undergo a "Break In" period? Be it a FOH PA speaker in a 2 or 3 way speaker cab, or subwoofer, monitor cabinet, guitar amplifier speaker etc? What do you base your opinion on? Do you think they sound better after this "Break In Period"? George
Reply With Quote
  #2  
Old August 15th, 2009, 01:38 AM
muzicman144 muzicman144 is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: May 2003
Location: Richmond, Va
Posts: 329
Speaker Breakin period

Quote:
Originally Posted by Musicman51 View Post
Do you believe a new speaker needs to undergo a "Break In" period? Be it a FOH PA speaker in a 2 or 3 way speaker cab, or subwoofer, monitor cabinet, guitar amplifier speaker etc? What do you base your opinion on? Do you think they sound better after this "Break In Period"? George
George, i've been playing for forty years and have never heard that question yet. But i do not believe there is a "break In" period on speakers or mixers,etc.
I do believe you learn how to best utilize what you have as you gain experience using said equipment. Some speakers sound better turned a certain way in respect to the room as each has a varying sound pattern. I believe you should learn what your speaker does, how its sound pattern works best in relation to how you are using them. Some speakers "throw" sound better than others. This is what makes them sound better instead of a "break in" theory.
muzicman144
Reply With Quote
  #3  
Old August 15th, 2009, 09:05 AM
billyo billyo is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: Las Vegas, NV
Posts: 2,202
there's is no break in period for speakers as far as i know, but everytime i do i show, i usually start with my Mackie boards gain ( volume) down to 0 and i gradually raises it up to about 30 and i'll play music for about 1/2hr. and i then will gradually raises it up to the unity gain , i have a Mackie SRM450 powered speakers and i have them on 1/2 way ( 12 o'clock ) to full gain ( volume )the entire duration of my show.. by doing these steps it will prevent me from blowing my speakers from a sudden burst of sound...i've seen people starting up with all volumes turned up and blowing their speakers...i only use my boards faders to turn up/down my vouume..when i used to used a non powered speakers, i had all my amps turned all the way up,( used to have 6 of them ) and still used to do the same steps...
__________________
BILLY O' WEEKEND.DJ
Las Vegas, NV

Last edited by billyo; August 15th, 2009 at 09:16 AM.
Reply With Quote
  #4  
Old August 15th, 2009, 09:54 AM
Musicman51 Musicman51 is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Nov 2004
Location: Michigan
Posts: 575
Thanks guys, these are great replies, and tips. I will reserve what the manu's have told me untill a few others hopefully give us their input. Now, just so there is no misunderstanding, i am talking about a "Brand New" transducer {speaker}, right out of the box, never before used at any venue. It can be loaded, and used for any purpose. Not necessarily how we use it, when, or where. ok?
Reply With Quote
  #5  
Old August 15th, 2009, 10:37 AM
billyo billyo is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: Las Vegas, NV
Posts: 2,202
i think the question here is should be " how to prevent blowing up speakers " George even though it's new and still in the box and never been used, some speaker cones tend to get brittle if it's been sitting in a stores storage room for a while.. in my opinion i will still do all the steps i suggested or do...good luck on your new speakers..
__________________
BILLY O' WEEKEND.DJ
Las Vegas, NV

Last edited by billyo; August 15th, 2009 at 10:43 AM.
Reply With Quote
  #6  
Old August 15th, 2009, 11:01 AM
Musicman51 Musicman51 is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Nov 2004
Location: Michigan
Posts: 575
That is true billyo, but my question is simply stated. I am curious as to views on using a brand new transducer. This question is older then any of us here my friend. I think basically there are rules we need to follow to safeguard our speakers from failure. However..... with that being said, i had a speaker blow on me, through absolutly no fault of my own, and did nothing but turn my power amp on. Now of course, they have soft starts in most power amps.

Muzicman144: This question i think dates back to the flood, and has been disgussed on almost all musical forums around the world at one time or another, caused many a flame war on the Fender Telecaster Forum, dealing with Fender amps. Incidently, great to know you are a musician as well as i am. I have been playing beer joints, honky tonks, dives before some of these kids were born...lol sad to admit. Right around 40 years as well. I play lead guitar, pedal steel guitar, dobro, bass. Lets talk shop sometime. Thanks for all comments.
Reply With Quote
  #7  
Old August 15th, 2009, 11:29 AM
billyo billyo is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: Las Vegas, NV
Posts: 2,202
i had my share of blown speakers due to my own fault/mistakes..i was running late and i was in a hurry setting up, and i turned my amps on last after i got everything set up, and i heard a pop..and i forgot the golden rule in using amps..turn on first..with the volume down t/off last with the volume also down..just curious what brand, powered/non powered of speakers did you get.?
__________________
BILLY O' WEEKEND.DJ
Las Vegas, NV
Reply With Quote
  #8  
Old August 15th, 2009, 12:52 PM
muzicman144 muzicman144 is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: May 2003
Location: Richmond, Va
Posts: 329
[Muzicman144: This question i think dates back to the flood, and has been disgussed on almost all musical forums around the world at one time or another, caused many a flame war on the Fender Telecaster Forum, dealing with Fender amps. Incidently, great to know you are a musician as well as i am. I have been playing beer joints, honky tonks, dives before some of these kids were born...lol sad to admit. Right around 40 years as well. I play lead guitar, pedal steel guitar, dobro, bass. Lets talk shop sometime. Thanks for all comments.[/quote]

George, it is always good to talk shop, anytime. i play guitar and a half way piano. I have been doing a one man show up and down the coast for years now, but seriously, never heard that question. I have never blown a speaker, but had electric spike burn an amp. I always have the volume down when i turn on the system, and work from there. never a problem (yet, watch out tonite)
It does sound like we are two old warhorses they can't put out to pasture. Ain't it great. I'm going to do it til they quit coming, but, knock on wood, it hasn't slowed down the last ten years. Look forward to hearing from you;
muzicman144
Reply With Quote
  #9  
Old August 15th, 2009, 04:35 PM
ddouglass ddouglass is offline
Super Moderator
 
Join Date: Nov 2004
Location: Ace, TX (5 miles past Nowhere)
Posts: 9,395
As far as blowing speakers go as long as your speakers are rated for a highter wattage than your amp can put out then you won't blow a speaker. It is usually people who use undersized speakers who have this problem.
If a cone on a new speaker was dry and going to crack, no amount of "break-in" is going to help keep it from cracking. In fact when a speaker cone gets in this condition the only thing that can be done is to replace the speaker.
And yes like you two "old-timers" I have been around audio equipment for a long time, though I am not a musician. I have been a technician for 40+ years.
__________________
Dale Douglass
2nd Generation Karaoke
I am not a member of the MTU Staff.
Reply With Quote
  #10  
Old August 15th, 2009, 05:08 PM
muzicman144 muzicman144 is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: May 2003
Location: Richmond, Va
Posts: 329
Break in Period

Dale, you are absolutely correct. Never undersize your speakers. A lot of people buy high watt amps thinking its better without thinking about what the speaker handles. I have never blown a speaker, but with today's choices of equipment, there is very little guidance for the novice trying to purchase this type of equipment, plus, a lot is not manufactured any more for the real professional sound, but rather by pricing to attract the novice, like bheringer, looks great, stops there.
As for the technician, While i think i know sound, working with techs out of Nashville occasionally, brings me back down to a much humbler approach.
Again, thanks for your service and devotion to this forum.
Muzicman144
Reply With Quote
  #11  
Old August 16th, 2009, 03:25 PM
Musicman51 Musicman51 is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Nov 2004
Location: Michigan
Posts: 575
The input has been great to this age old tech question. I will hold off on giving what my research has uncovered untill some others hopefully weigh in here with their observations. Difference twiched you and me dale, is you are educated, i ain't....lol
Reply With Quote
  #12  
Old August 16th, 2009, 03:38 PM
Musicman51 Musicman51 is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Nov 2004
Location: Michigan
Posts: 575
You are correct in your observations muzicman144 however. Lets not forget that budget gear like Alto, Phonic, Behringer Nady and others have their place and purpose in todays music scene. I wish they had behringer when i was 16. I had to use old worn out guitar amps and beat to death speakers cabs, all i could afford. At least in todays economy, even those that live from payday to payday, can at least purchase a little better speakers and amps then i had to use. Lets take for instance Behringers stomp boxes. I use the Boss DD3 Digital Delay Pedal, with AC adapter this pedal was around 150.00. I tried a behringer delay pedal, and i thought the quality was real close to my Boss pedal, $29.00. Within reach of any kid nowdays, and any hard up working musician. I heard a bunch of young fella's playing up here, and they were powered by all behringer gear. Durn if i could tell the difference in quality. Their band sounded just as good as any other powered by Crown, Peavey, or QSC. Of course you git what ya pay for, i have several pieces of behringer gear in my studio, works fine, and some pieces are going on 5 years old. Do i want to use all behringer stuff? nope. But they do have a place on todays music scene. Just like the imported Fender guitars from Mexico, and the Epiphone guitars from china. I use a 16 Channel Peavey FX16 mixes for karaoke, this mixer is better then any Macki i've ever own, and the effects rival Lexicons...made in china.
Reply With Quote
  #13  
Old August 16th, 2009, 10:14 PM
ddouglass ddouglass is offline
Super Moderator
 
Join Date: Nov 2004
Location: Ace, TX (5 miles past Nowhere)
Posts: 9,395
Quote:
Originally Posted by Musicman51 View Post
The input has been great to this age old tech question. I will hold off on giving what my research has uncovered until some others hopefully weigh in here with their observations. Difference twiched you and me dale, is you are educated, i ain't....lol
Hahaha!! Most of my schooling past my Air Force electronics training was in the school of hard knocks or self taught from books. I do have a degree in Electronics Engineering (Associates) which got me started with computers and led me into working as a network engineer and IT tech, but most of that was self -taught. Anyway, regardless we can all learn if we put our minds to it and I know you have learned a lot just by asking questions in these forums. We are all glad to help and impart our knowledge to others who need it.
__________________
Dale Douglass
2nd Generation Karaoke
I am not a member of the MTU Staff.
Reply With Quote
  #14  
Old August 17th, 2009, 01:43 AM
muzicman144 muzicman144 is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: May 2003
Location: Richmond, Va
Posts: 329
Break in Period

George, i thoroughly agree with you on the Budget gear a lot of musicians use. I too started with old road worn speakers and amps. All I could afford. Funny, at that time we all thought big was best and that was what we used. Thank goodness for today's technology that makes everything small. What we carried then in a big truck will now go in the trunk of a compact. I still keep my EV system powered by QSC, but don't know why. I use the Bose LII system, best system i have used except the pro sound used in live outdoor venues.
As you said, you git what you pay for and can afford. Move up to the better stuff when you can. Ain't it been a great ride!!!! I have found that when all else fails, music will never let you down!!
muzicman144
Reply With Quote
  #15  
Old August 17th, 2009, 09:07 AM
billyo billyo is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: Las Vegas, NV
Posts: 2,202
Quote:
Originally Posted by muzicman144 View Post
George, i thoroughly agree with you on the Budget gear a lot of musicians use. I too started with old road worn speakers and amps. All I could afford. Funny, at that time we all thought big was best and that was what we used. Thank goodness for today's technology that makes everything small. What we carried then in a big truck will now go in the trunk of a compact. I still keep my EV system powered by QSC, but don't know why. I use the Bose LII system, best system i have used except the pro sound used in live outdoor venues.
As you said, you git what you pay for and can afford. Move up to the better stuff when you can. Ain't it been a great ride!!!! I have found that when all else fails, music will never let you down!!
muzicman144
i totally agree with you, i started with a peavey 6 channel powered board, and kept on buying big speakers thinking bigger is better, till i ended up with a garage full of audio gears ( 8 speakers, 4 18' subs, 6 power amps 3 peavey 12 channel boards, and a bunch of sound processors and road cases ) i had to rent a u-haul everytime i do big venues ,can't even park a car in m 2 car garage anymore, i since got got rid of them , and replaced it with smaller gears, i now have 4 Mackie systems that i used for diff. size venues
__________________
BILLY O' WEEKEND.DJ
Las Vegas, NV
Reply With Quote
  #16  
Old August 17th, 2009, 03:14 PM
mindonstrike mindonstrike is offline
VIP
 
Join Date: Mar 2001
Location: Spokane Wa/Post Falls Id
Posts: 2,656
Even though the manufactures insist no breakin is needed, I still do it. It just seems to make sense.

The makers of my speaker equipment insist that it can with stand the cold for storage to sub zero but I still keep a heater in the van that kicks on at freezing.

Any tool I use to make a living gets the kid glove treatment, even when the manufacturers say It doesn't need it

Sam
Reply With Quote
  #17  
Old August 17th, 2009, 04:47 PM
Musicman51 Musicman51 is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Nov 2004
Location: Michigan
Posts: 575
"Even though the manufactures insist no breakin is needed, I still do it."

Which manu's are you speaking of if you don't mind my asking?


Musizicman144, i do use the best i can find. I have used all peavey and carvin gear in one way or another since time began. I am currently using their LM series of speakers. I run 4 main cabs, two 2way cabs, and two 3way cab. Carvin sells a cross bar that fits on your speaker stand, and i mount two speakers on each stand. Thats how light these new 15" neo cabinets are. These new LM cabinets by carvin are just the cats meow. They weigh around 30 pounds each, and are loaded with neodymium speakers made by B&C, an italian speaker company, that makes top shelf stuff. a while back, just for the fun of it, i traded out the B&C neo's and installed the Eminence kapalite 15's. Which is also a great speaker. To my surprise, i liked the italian built B&C neo's better. You can find the B&C neo's on the Parts Express website. They are a very pricy speaker, but in my humble opinion well worth the bucks. I use two 12" Wharfendale floor monitors, and 2 small Electro Voice 12" plastic subwoofer cabinets. These little EV 12" subs think they're 18's, and eat peavey subs for lunch. I have a foldaway two wheel cart i keep in the trailer, and away we go, the carvin mains even i can carry two at a time. My 8 space molded skb rack case is the heaveist piece of gear i have to move now. You know, i purchased hoster so i could stop hauling those heavy cd cases, now i find myself buying new mic preamps, an extra power amp, i also just purchased a small 5" LCD table top TV monitor for my karaoke table, and i also added a table, now i travel with two DJ tables. Where does it all end....Yep, thank goodness for todays technology.
Reply With Quote
  #18  
Old August 17th, 2009, 05:30 PM
mindonstrike mindonstrike is offline
VIP
 
Join Date: Mar 2001
Location: Spokane Wa/Post Falls Id
Posts: 2,656
Quote:
Originally Posted by Musicman51 View Post
"Even though the manufactures insist no breakin is needed, I still do it."

Which manu's are you speaking of if you don't mind my asking?


Musizicman144, i do use the best i can find. I have used all peavey and carvin gear in one way or another since time began. I am currently using their LM series of speakers. I run 4 main cabs, two 2way cabs, and two 3way cab. Carvin sells a cross bar that fits on your speaker stand, and i mount two speakers on each stand. Thats how light these new 15" neo cabinets are. These new LM cabinets by carvin are just the cats meow. They weigh around 30 pounds each, and are loaded with neodymium speakers made by B&C, an italian speaker company, that makes top shelf stuff. a while back, just for the fun of it, i traded out the B&C neo's and installed the Eminence kapalite 15's. Which is also a great speaker. To my surprise, i liked the italian built B&C neo's better. You can find the B&C neo's on the Parts Express website. They are a very pricy speaker, but in my humble opinion well worth the bucks. I use two 12" Wharfendale floor monitors, and 2 small Electro Voice 12" plastic subwoofer cabinets. These little EV 12" subs think they're 18's, and eat peavey subs for lunch. I have a foldaway two wheel cart i keep in the trailer, and away we go, the carvin mains even i can carry two at a time. My 8 space molded skb rack case is the heaveist piece of gear i have to move now. You know, i purchased hoster so i could stop hauling those heavy cd cases, now i find myself buying new mic preamps, an extra power amp, i also just purchased a small 5" LCD table top TV monitor for my karaoke table, and i also added a table, now i travel with two DJ tables. Where does it all end....Yep, thank goodness for todays technology.
Directly: One of the Bose guys at their forum. Indirectly: From other people who've checked with their speaker makers.

Off Topic: Where'd you get your 5" LCD? What size power supply? I've been looking for something like that for the camera system I want to install on my van to supplement my side mirrors.

Sam
Reply With Quote
  #19  
Old August 17th, 2009, 05:52 PM
ddouglass ddouglass is offline
Super Moderator
 
Join Date: Nov 2004
Location: Ace, TX (5 miles past Nowhere)
Posts: 9,395
Sam, do a search for "Backup cameras for vehicles" There are lots of choices out there that power directly from the car (no power supply needed). Some are wireless and nearly all hav an LCD screen from 4" -7" that are part of the set.
__________________
Dale Douglass
2nd Generation Karaoke
I am not a member of the MTU Staff.
Reply With Quote
  #20  
Old August 17th, 2009, 07:22 PM
Lonman Lonman is offline
VIP
 
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: Tacoma, WA
Posts: 2,732
Quote:
Originally Posted by ddouglass View Post
As far as blowing speakers go as long as your speakers are rated for a highter wattage than your amp can put out then you won't blow a speaker. It is usually people who use undersized speakers who have this problem.
I have to disagree to a point with this one, while yes you can certainly blow a speaker if the amp is way too powerful for the recommended specs of the speakers, but you can blow a speaker faster with an amp that isn't powerful enough in the first place. An amp should be able to deliver the twice (some engineers & books even recommend 3 x) the RMS power rating. Most speaker manus already add this rating as the 'program' rating. Say for example the Yamaha S115V, it's RMS/PROGRAM/PEAK ratings are 250/500/1000 at 8 ohms. The amp should be pushing at least 500 watts.
I have seen companies blow drivers - mostly high frequency - due to too little power, which seems to be the trend in a lot of companies these days. They see that 250 watt rating and think they can get that or lower & nver blow the amp, truth is, distortion is what is going to kill the speaker, not so much power. While a smaller amp is certainly more than capable of running a show, it may not be doing it with any headroom. The smaller amps once it hits it's rated power, everything over that is going to come in the form of distortion, sometimes not even really audible at first, but the speakers can sure feel it as the voice coils start to heat up. Plus once the amp gets over it's rating, it starts getting almost ear piercingly loud, low frequencies start dropping - typical of MANY shows around here.
If that same system was running with a higher powered amp, the volume at regular listening levels would be much cleaner to start with plus have the headroom to be able to turn up to compensate for crowd noise without the distortion. Now on the flipside, TOO much power can pop a speaker as it will sound pretty good up until speaker failure.
__________________

Show PC Lenovo nVidia 3.2ghz proc
Win 8.1 64bit
Vid: nVidia GT720 2gb mem
Aud: Lexicon Alpha
Mem: 8gb ram
HD: 1tb int/1tb int
Test PC ASUS AMD 4ghz 8 core proc
Win 7 Pro 32 bit

Vid: LP Radeon HD 5450 Video Card - 1GB
Aud: Lexicon Omega USB I/O Interface
Mem: 16gb ram
HD: 1TB/1TB

Like us on Facebook http://facebook.com/lonmanproductions
Reply With Quote
Reply


Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off


All times are GMT -4. The time now is 08:20 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.7.1
Copyright ©2009 - 2019, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
The contents of this forum are copyrighted by Micro Technology Unlimited, 2000-2008. Use of any material from these Forums is prohibited without written agreement from MTU.