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CD-Recorders and Media Open Forum All about drives and media

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  #1  
Old February 17th, 2008, 04:55 PM
dcrog dcrog is offline
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CDR-DVD Burner, 18x IDE internal mount CDG Certified

This was shipped to me on Nov. 5, 07. On Dec. 2 I bought the Microstudio program.

What would cause it to read the CDG's correctly but the burning is hit or miss? When I say hit or miss when you burn a disc sometimes the title screen will not show on the track. Some tracks will burn one time and not be readable the next time you try to make a back up of the disc.

If read with the Optiarc DVD RW AD-7190A from MTU they play fine in microstudio. If the files read from this drive are burned with the Sony DVD RW AW-Q170A which came in this computer they work quite well in a JVC CDG player.

I'm at a loss here. All updates from Microsoft are up to date from the custom menu. I've uninstalled and reinstalled Microstudio today thinking it was somehow corrupted from the MSoft updates to .net framework 3.xxx or one of their other updates.

I had had problems with the .net framework failing to update itself. I spent a few hours yesterday in microsofts knowledge base until they sent me to a third party to wipe the .net and started over from scratch. As I said earlier there are now no possible updates on their site.

The cd's are always read at 6x, for the error correction. Then usually burned at max on the Optiarc burner. I've tried slowing down to 16x and slower with the same varied results. It wasn't until today that I tried to use the files imported from the Optiarc with the Sony. This resulted in excellent copies of the Sunfly and Star Disc CDG's.

Could it be my power supply, doesn't seem likely since the other burner isn't having a problem? Possibly need for a firmware upgrade? Or something else.

Oh and by the way this is not a thread intended to bash the products purchased. Just looking to find an answer as to whether it is my equipment, the drive, or something else.



Windows XP professional Service pack 2
AMD Athlon 64 processor 3200+
512MB ram
Main drive 7200 rpm 250 Gig WD SATA (This is where MS and the imported files are)
DirectX version 9.0c
GeForce 6200 TurboCache with 256 MB ram
Optiarc DVD RW AD-7190A from MTU in early November 07
Sony DVD RW AW-Q170A came with box
Audio Controller: nVidia(026B)
AC97 Codec: ALC655
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  #2  
Old February 17th, 2008, 09:00 PM
ddouglass ddouglass is offline
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What version of Microstudio and what type of CDs are you using? Microstudio was upgraded to 4.005 on Dec 3. As far as the CDs go if you use cheap CDs you will get poor copies. At the least use Music quality CDs and the best would be to order MTU's CDs since they have quality CDs.
Slowing down the drive really doesn't help as the drives today are made to work better at max speed than they do a slower speeds.
And no it isn't your power supply.
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  #3  
Old February 17th, 2008, 09:43 PM
dcrog dcrog is offline
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4.005 on the program. I've used Imation's and HP's for quite a few years with another program. And as I said, with the Sony burner the backups look quite good.

I know slowing down the burner isn't supposed to help, although many people recommend it. But when the CD's are acting as strange as these were you start trying most anything.

Music quality? I've always read that they aren't any different except that you pay an added cost to RIAA or someone because you are putting music on them.
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  #4  
Old February 18th, 2008, 09:14 AM
ddouglass ddouglass is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dcrog View Post
4.005 on the program. I've used Imation's and HP's for quite a few years with another program. And as I said, with the Sony burner the backups look quite good.

I know slowing down the burner isn't supposed to help, although many people recommend it. But when the CD's are acting as strange as these were you start trying most anything.

Music quality? I've always read that they aren't any different except that you pay an added cost to RIAA or someone because you are putting music on them.
Slowing down the burner was a viable way to make better/cleaner burns back when CD drives came out, but that isn't true with the newer burners. The newer ones actually do a worse job when you slow them down.

Music Quality CDs have a thicker backing and higher quality burn area than data CDs. And no you are not paying the RIAA or anyone extra. That is just rumors and propaganda and someone's excuse for not paying the higher price for them. I have also heard that standard low cost data discs will lose their data after 3 years. I can't disprove this one because I have had several photo collections done on the cheaper discs that no longer work now. Fortunately I have those photos in other locations.
My personal choice is Memorex Music CDs. I have never had a bad one and I can get 75 disc packages at Sam's for less than I can get them or any others else where.
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  #5  
Old February 18th, 2008, 11:56 AM
dcrog dcrog is offline
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I believe you are wrong about the royalty on the audio cdr's:

http://www4.law.cornell.edu/uscode/17/1004.html

3% is the figure I come up with.

http://www.cdrfaq.org/faq05.html#S5-12

http://www.cdrfaq.org/faq07.html#S7-17

And although the second and third reference may not be the ultimate knowledge base for the differences in the media, they do comply with everything else I've read on the subject.

By all means I'm not saying that there isn't a difference in cdr media's. Just that no place have I seen what you are saying the difference is.

In fact I believe I do have some memorex audio cd's at the house and may try that when I get home later. But with the files burning fine on the Sony to the Imation and HP media I don't think this is the case. Unless the firmware on the Optiarc won't allow them to work properly. Although it did work with them for a while. Some artifacts were printed to the back ups but nothing intolerable.

But back to the problems with the burning with this drive, does anyone have any other ideas?

MTU, Admin? Or you ddouglas, it's looking to me like it is likely a bad drive. Not MTU's fault by any means. They didn't manufacture it.

But the question of firmware is still out there. I have read that this drive was actually made by Lite-on and people are suggesting using firmware for their drives on it. I won't do this unless asked to by MTU since they are the ones who certified it for CDG.
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  #6  
Old February 18th, 2008, 04:54 PM
bobcox- with the Lord bobcox- with the Lord is offline
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I am told the nec drives are made by sony
you may try updating firmware.??
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  #7  
Old February 19th, 2008, 08:53 AM
dcrog dcrog is offline
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Sorry I got home last night and had to take the wife to the doctor and didn't get home until about 9 PM, so I didn't get a chance to look or try anything with the drive.

Bob, I did find updates this morning for the Optiarc drive here

http://forum.rpc1.org/dl_result.php?kaj=1&isces

But I'm not going to flash it unless MTU support tells me to do so. I believe this drive has a one year warranty from the factory. But since it is certified for CDG, and I'm not sure at the moment what firmware it has on it, I don't want to do anything that might have a more negative effect on its performance.

The firmware page also led me to here

http://www.sonynec-optiarc.eu/en/sup...ad-series.html

which has an update for the P-ATA, which I am not sure is what this drive should be flashed with although it appears to be the same zip file from the first link for 1.05.
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  #8  
Old February 19th, 2008, 07:36 PM
dcrog dcrog is offline
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Okay, I just checked and the firmware is version 1.0.
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  #9  
Old February 19th, 2008, 09:13 PM
bobcox- with the Lord bobcox- with the Lord is offline
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I would update firmware, that will not harm anything.
it is just a fix for that drive. Bob
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  #10  
Old February 20th, 2008, 11:13 AM
dcrog dcrog is offline
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I agree that it shouldn't harm anything Bob. But as it is I am not in a bind for the fix. I turned in a ticket to MTU last night and should hear back from them. I remember reading in the past that sometimes with the drives that they get in they have had to change the firmware on the drives to make them compatible with the CDG. If this is a warranty issue of some sort I'm not going to do anything until I hear from them.

With my luck I'll have a power failure, not likely really, during the flash and end up with a fairly expensive paper weight.

But if that happened I could always take the DVD laser out and put it into a mag light flashlight for starting camp fires.
I have a link if anyone wants it.

Thanks Bob and Dale for helping though.
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  #11  
Old February 20th, 2008, 08:13 PM
dcrog dcrog is offline
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Okay. I didn't have any Memorex audio but did have some Imation audio and tried using those. Same result with the Optiarc. The player has a hard time finding tracks. Titles screens don't show on some tracks. Lyrics don't show on other tracks. Same file, which was read from the Optiarc, burned with the Sony plays perfect.
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  #12  
Old February 20th, 2008, 09:35 PM
ddouglass ddouglass is offline
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Put in a Support Email. You may just have a bad drive.
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  #13  
Old February 21st, 2008, 05:53 AM
dcrog dcrog is offline
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Thanks Dale. I did a couple of nights ago. Their automated response said they would get back to me. I pointed them to this thread for more information.

I also ordered some Tiayo Yuden discs yesterday. They are supposed to be the standard the industry goes by. We'll see how they do.
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  #14  
Old February 21st, 2008, 09:03 AM
George George is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ddouglass View Post
What version of Microstudio and what type of CDs are you using? Microstudio was upgraded to 4.005 on Dec 3. As far as the CDs go if you use cheap CDs you will get poor copies. At the least use Music quality CDs and the best would be to order MTU's CDs since they have quality CDs.
Slowing down the drive really doesn't help as the drives today are made to work better at max speed than they do a slower speeds.
And no it isn't your power supply.
The MTU media is by far the best around for burning CDG's, or audio. I have never had a bad burn using them.

With that in mind, if you don't have a stand alone cd recorder deck, you have little need for Music cd's. Most stand alone decks require Music cd's. I have one, and use Music CDRW's to do my vocal recordings on, and when I get them right, import to the hard drive and burn on MTU media.
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Last edited by George; February 21st, 2008 at 09:14 AM.
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  #15  
Old February 21st, 2008, 09:49 AM
dcrog dcrog is offline
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Oops. Looks like I misspelled TAIYO in the previous post. From what I've researched they are the best on the market. I guess I'll see when they arrive.

I understand about the audio versions of the CDR's also. I think the wife happened to pick the ones I have up in a checkout line some time ago.

But thank you George for the input.
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  #16  
Old February 22nd, 2008, 07:48 PM
dcrog dcrog is offline
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Okay MTUsupport got to my ticket and sent me the 1.04 firmware. I flashed the drive and still the same thing. I responded on the ticket for this problem. Guess we'll see what happens next.
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  #17  
Old February 26th, 2008, 10:40 AM
dcrog dcrog is offline
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I know you folks are busy, but could someone get back to me on this problem.
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  #18  
Old February 26th, 2008, 11:33 AM
George George is offline
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There have been problems in the past reported on the forums with programs such as Roxio Easy CD Creator interfering with cdg burns.

That has been awhile though, but thought it may be worth mentioning.
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  #19  
Old February 26th, 2008, 12:03 PM
dcrog dcrog is offline
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I don't think I have Roxio on that particular box. But I will check when I get home. I know Nero is on it.
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  #20  
Old February 26th, 2008, 01:06 PM
George George is offline
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Might try shutting Nero down to see...just in case.
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