KIAA Membership

[muzicman144]

It has been a while since the KIAA whirlwind and i was wondering how many MTU users joined and how has it benefited you and your work. It appears to have just been a local knee jerk idea pushed by personal agenda. They seem to have dropped of the planet without having served a purpose except to collect a few dollars from KJ's.
muzicman144

[marklwood]

From what I read, it was just an old fashioned protection racket. If you pay us money, we won't come after you. I guess that just doesn't work anymore.

[billyo]

that's what i thought when i read the article on their site, i think that org.is a an agency, and they wanted all the kj's to work for them and pay them dues, they wanted to control all the kj's specially in the state of AZ, where i think that org.is base from..

[Musicman51]

I just didn't like their business practices at all. They expected you to hand over your entire CD case for their inspecton, and also be the karaoke police, and squal on anyone who you think might be runnin a bad show. And...pay these clowns 50 bucks to do it. Sure wish i coulda gotten in on the ground floor on that one. Reminds me of the old musicians union turf stories i heard from the early days. Busted knees, and broken heads. You go sniffin' around a bandstand back in 1932 looking for something, you liable to be carried out of the place.

We take care of each other up round these parts. The economy is bad up here, we have the highest unemployment in the nation right here, and no hope in the near future. We do what we have to in order to survive. And that goes for homemade moonshine stills {yes we still have those up here} and those that steal huntin' dogs, and those that mess with our karaoke. We take our friendships, moonshine, and karaoke.....very seriously.

[bryant]

Originally Posted by billyo

that's what i thought when i read the article on their site, i think that org.is a an agency, and they wanted all the kj's to work for them and pay them dues, they wanted to control all the kj's specially in the state of AZ, where i think that org.is base from..

It was obvious from the get-go as anyone could see from reading the page. We take care of ourselves here in Maine too, and the economy has ALWAYS been bad, never good, here. The unemployment rates are figured from those that collect, many, many, more in Maine have already collected the maximum and are still unemployed but don't show up on the statistics, and many choose not to work either (welfare easier, I guess), making our unemployment rate about triple what the records show (around 30%), of the other 70%, most make way less than 10 dollars an hour.

[dpatz]

This is spearheaded by Tony Walstra VP of marketing, Stellar Records ( Pop Hits Monthly) with Sound Choice And Chartbusters being members. Trying to stop piracy.

[bryant]

Originally Posted by dpatz

This is spearheaded by Tony Walstra VP of marketing, Stellar Records ( Pop Hits Monthly) with Sound Choice And Chartbusters being members. Trying to stop piracy.

I see, but piracy being an offense of the law, can only be stopped by a law enforcer, e.g., police, etc, etc., not by someone who wants to collect money and inspect discs. Doesn't make any sense.

Like i said, it was an obvious hoax/scam, call it what you wish.

[muzicman144]

Originally Posted by dpatz

This is spearheaded by Tony Walstra VP of marketing, Stellar Records ( Pop Hits Monthly) with Sound Choice And Chartbusters being members. Trying to stop piracy.

My understanding is Eric Godfrey from USKAROKEEALLIANCE, spearheaded the KIAA along with Kurt Slef of Sound Choice, who was selling downloading karaoke files from a Website in Australia that was illegal for use in the US because they hadn't paid the US fees to get rights to the songs. Stellar Records came on board after that, and, according to statements alledgedly made by Stellar Records, says even putting the karaoke files on a computer is illegal, in their eyes.
The reason i'm asking questions is there is no movement on the KIAA website, except to ask for money to join? Just try to get in touch with a human at their website, good luck!!!!
muzicman144

[billyo]

i think the reason why they're ( Stellar ) is saying that loading a karaoke file on a comp. is illegal, is because they couldn't come up with a program better than Hoster.. they're probably working for Madoff that's why you couldn't get anybody on the phone!!!

[ddouglass]

Originally Posted by muzicman144

Stellar Records came on board after that, and, according to statements alledgedly made by Stellar Records, says even putting the karaoke files on a computer is illegal, in their eyes.

Now that is funny. Especially considering they bought the rights to all of Sound Choices past releases to be able to offer them as downloadable purchases. Not only that but they do the same thing for all of there releases they own.

[muzicman144]

Originally Posted by ddouglass

Now that is funny. Especially considering they bought the rights to all of Sound Choices past releases to be able to offer them as downloadable purchases. Not only that but they do the same thing for all of there releases they own.

It really is funny. I came across those statements made by Stellar Records President, Tom (can't remember his last name) doing research on KIAA.
Only in America
I have never concerned myself with what competition does or uses. Have a great show is the only ammunition one needs. But, 30,000 pirated songs at a great entertainers fingertips is hard to overcome, but the good entertainers do not lower their price because they don't have the investment in karaoke files, he wants top money, just as we all do.
muzicman144

[ddouglass]

I did notice they have kept up the Anti-piracy news, though most are not concerning Karaoke piracy. However is does look like they are not progressing much. Guess they couldn't any better than previous organizations.

[mindonstrike]

Originally Posted by bryant

I see, but piracy being an offense of the law, can only be stopped by a law enforcer, e.g., police, etc, etc., not by someone who wants to collect money and inspect discs. Doesn't make any sense.

Like i said, it was an obvious hoax/scam, call it what you wish.

Not exactly true.
Piracy is theft of property and as such is subject to civil as well as criminal proceedings and the burden of proof is a lot less for civil than criminal.

Even if theres not enough evidence to be criminally prosecuted you can still be be civilly liable

Even if you are found innocent of criminal wrongdoing a civil court can still take everything you have to satisfy someone elses loss. Just ask O.J.

The KIAA is to karaoke manufacturers and their other members, what the RIAA is to the music industry. The RIAA has been fairly succesful in their civil cases against pirates.

Sam

[Musicman51]

I'm with billyo on his outlook at making a buck with karaoke. If i had to relie on karaoke for a living, i'd starve to death. I consider it an expensive hobby. If i make a buck or two to help offset my expenses so be it. If i don't, so be it. I do a few freebies, like retirement homes, jail ministry, and youth groups. Also for a special kids dance once in awhile. I am making about the same amount of money as any KJ up around here. I have been at the same american legion club going on 6 years now. Started out at 175.00 a night, i'm up to 200.00 a night, twice a month. Figure in all my new CDG's, and my two chartbuster monthly subscriptions, my new cargo trailer to haul my gear, lighting, new laptop, hoster, rack gear, cables, mics etc.... well you do the math. Where i make a buck are my extra gigs. Weddings, yard parties, graduations, biker gigs, pool parties etc. But it's something to do to get me out of the house and active. Incidently, i'm not sure about the rest of you guys. But i always git double pay on new years eve. If you don't, you should be. Merry Christmas

[bryant]

Originally Posted by mindonstrike

Not exactly true.
Piracy is theft of property and as such is subject to civil as well as criminal proceedings and the burden of proof is a lot less for civil than criminal.

Even if theres not enough evidence to be criminally prosecuted you can still be be civilly liable

Even if you are found innocent of criminal wrongdoing a civil court can still take everything you have to satisfy someone elses loss. Just ask O.J.

The KIAA is to karaoke manufacturers and their other members, what the RIAA is to the music industry. The RIAA has been fairly succesful in their civil cases against pirates.

Sam

I see, and that is true. I guess I meant "stopped" as being enforced, such as an officer of the law would legally enforce the law, being civil or otherwise.

[bryant]

Originally Posted by Musicman51

I'm with billyo on his outlook at making a buck with karaoke. If I had to relie on karaoke for a living, i'd starve to death. I consider it an expensive hobby. If I make a buck or two to help offset my expenses so be it. If i don't, so be it. I do a few freebies, like retirement homes, jail ministry, and youth groups. Also for a special kids dance once in awhile. I am making about the same amount of money as any KJ up around here. I have been at the same american legion club going on 6 years now. Started out at 175.00 a night, i'm up to 200.00 a night, twice a month. Figure in all my new CDG's, and my two chartbuster monthly subscriptions, my new cargo trailer to haul my gear, lighting, new laptop, hoster, rack gear, cables, mics etc.... well you do the math. Where i make a buck are my extra gigs. Weddings, yard parties, graduations, biker gigs, pool parties etc. But it's something to do to get me out of the house and active. Incidently, i'm not sure about the rest of you guys. But i always git double pay on new years eve. If you don't, you should be. Merry Christmas

Not bad $200 bucks for an American Legion hall in an economically depressed area. I think even in Portland , ME (the least depressed area in Maine) the best DJ/KJ's are lucky to see $175 at any type of club. My wife's been doing the VFW for 7 years at $160, while others in this area range from 75 - 125 at any type of club.

New Years Eve (there's a post/poll on that here somewhere). We usually get around triple (everyone makes money then). I've been asked to play in three places this year. Had to refuse because work at regular place every year, and one of the other places asked "Well, can you next year?" and offered $50 more than the going place now. I told him I'd check and see if they book me next year (now with ammunition to ask for a slight increase).

[muzicman144]

Originally Posted by mindonstrike

The KIAA is to karaoke manufacturers and their other members, what the RIAA is to the music industry. The RIAA has been fairly succesful in their civil cases against pirates.

Sam

Sam, I not so sure these type of organizations are the answer to the problem. Seems to this ole boy that with BMI, ASCAP, SEESAC, RIAA, KIAA and others trying to get their finger in pie of royalties, there just isn't much left for the artist. For once, I, personally, would like to see a breakdown of the money trail. I think it would really surprise you how little the writer/artist actually gets from their actions. I have never seen these figures posted anywhere, anytime. Go Figure.
I have always wondered why the writer/artist community hasn't gotten together and only allow one company to pursue this avenue, where they can control the cost, disperse the money fairly.
I see the RIAA, KIAA as basically pirates of a different color as no one authorized them to pursue the money trail. You or I can do the same thing, get the same results. Look at Eric Godrey of Arizona and his US Karaoke Alliance. He is self annointed prez, founder, and controls the dispersment of fund as he sees fit, and pays bar/club's BMI/ASCAP fees if they join his alliance in his effort to control Karaoke in the Phoenix, Ariz. area. Does anyone think this type of "enforcement" in every area of this country is what we, as entertainers/business' need?
The music/karaoke industry will only suffer more with all these companies attempting to "combat piracy". If one paid fees to all these companies to be deemed "legal" you can't afford to be in the business.
I remember a poll in this forum where the question was "are you completely 100% legal", meaning you didn't even have one illegal file. Most of you were completely honest, and most of you said you were in the High 90%, with only a few claiming 100%. I believe this is the norm for most KJ's.
Sorry for being so long winded. My comments are my humble opinion only.
muzicman144

[dpatz]

Any copyright infringement can be enforced by ASCAP, BMI or SEASAC. Just recently Sound Choice busted 15 clubs in Phoenix for displaying the SC logo on their computers without having the originals. SC told me that they did not really care about copying or transferring discs for your own personal use as long as you maintain the originals. ASCAP, etc wiill of course have a different view. Piracy is a big problem. I just recently had to close my retail store due to the lack of disc sales. 3 -7 systems per year wasn't enough. We have people downloading from the net , copying and giving them away. I quit accepting copied discs at my shows.

[ddouglass]

Bryant and Sam I think as far as enforcement you guys are mixing terms up.
Piracy is counterfeiting of an item (in this case song files or discs) and is a gainst the law and would be a criminal offence.
Copyright and trademark enfringement which is using the counterfeit items is not a criminal offence and thus has to be persued by the owner in civil court. No cases have been taken to court by the KIAA directly. The Arizona cases have been filed by Stellar and Sound Choice (the owners).

[muzicman144]

Originally Posted by dpatz

Just recently Sound Choice busted 15 clubs in Phoenix for displaying the SC logo on their computers without having the originals. I quit accepting copied discs at my shows.

Sound Choice pursued these through KIAA, but the effort was spearheaded by Eric Godfrey, On the board of the KIAA, whose motives i question. Do We really need a Eric Godfrey in every town working in the name of "combatiing piracy"?
As for accepting a copied disk at your show, i guess that's your perogative, but, that copied disk can be perfectly legal by current standards.
muzicman144