MTU.Community


Go Back   MTU.Community > Singers & Hosts Wisdom

Singers & Hosts Wisdom Post how to be a great karaoke singer or host.

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
  #21  
Old February 1st, 2009, 09:21 AM
billyo billyo is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: Las Vegas, NV
Posts: 2,202
[quote=ddouglass;88929]To make something like that work (as an individual) you would need to buy the machines and convince establishment owners to let you put one in their place of business for a cut of the profits. In other words become a jukebox/pool tables/pin ball/electronics games provider for the locations around you. I had an uncle who had that kind of business in Oklahoma back in the 60's and he made good money from it.

Quote:
Billyo I think this is probably aimed more at bar/restuarant owners as a way to have Karaoke with out having to hire a KJ. Not a good thing for us, but expensive enough that I don't think it will go over that well. Besides if you look at the list of requirements #1 is that you must be within 50 miles of Ace Karaoke. That kind of limits their sales.

my thoughts exactlly, and you have to have more than one establisments to put them in order to make money..
__________________
BILLY O' WEEKEND.DJ
Las Vegas, NV
Reply With Quote
  #22  
Old February 1st, 2009, 09:24 AM
marklwood's Avatar
marklwood marklwood is offline
Honor Roll
 
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: Joplin, MO
Posts: 960
Quote:
Originally Posted by RIKKI TIKKI View Post
Did I mention that it is alot of work, and not for the fly by nights, and the thin skinned, or faint of heart?

Rick
Rikki Tikki Karaoke
Amen!
__________________
Test machine:
Vista Home Premium / Toshiba Satelitte X205 / 2.0GHz Core2 Duo / 2GB memory / 2x NVIDIA GeForce 8600M GT
Reply With Quote
  #23  
Old February 1st, 2009, 11:28 AM
billyo billyo is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: Las Vegas, NV
Posts: 2,202
[quote=RIKKI TIKKI;88942]I'm Mobile, with setup & tear down every night!

I have found that the change in atmosphere by switching venues increases my base of regular singers, and allows for the show to have fresh faces that wouldn't necessarily travel the 20 +/- miles to the 3 gigs I currently play in!

I base out of Nogales, then travel 20 miles east to Patagonia, or 10 miles north to Rio Rico. Different crowd of regulars in each place, and thus don't allow the show to die due to overkill.

The Nogales gig I've done for 13 years, the Rio Rico gig is a Resort, where I did 3 years at the golf country club, then they asked me to move to the main hotel property where I've been for the past 3 years, for a total of 6 years, and the Patagonia gig is in limbo this month while they are changing ownership and remodeling to increase the size. I took over that show 3 years ago from one of my proteges that left the Karaoke business. I have been lucky enough to have a waiting list built up for the 3 nights that I presently allow myself / Wed-Fri-Sat ( I bowl Mon & Thur - Ha! ), but like I tell them when I contract to them, you've heard the rest, now you have the best! Building the show takes cooperation and commitment from the management and the Karaoke host, and that can only be done over the long haul, and if they are not willing to help me promote, and commit to things that my standards dictate, then I am wasting my time and their money, and the show will not prosper, and neither of us will make money!

You have to sell the sizzle at the beginning, and then be able to back it up by doing all the things that you promised! I feel my longivity has been perpetuated by being honest upfront, and delivering a first class package that allows the venue to make money. Advantage goes to the professional Karaoke host if you don't try to place your shows where they don't belong!
Quote:

If you can't compete with a Karaoke jukebox - you have chosen the wrong line of work! Did I mention that it is alot of work, and not for the fly by nights, and the thin skinned, or faint of heart?
if doing karaoke is your main source of income, i could understand, no you can't be thin skinned, but it's not my main source of income, even though i've invested alot on my equipments and to me it's just a hobby, i can't be thick skinned.i can't see myself charging customers to sing
__________________
BILLY O' WEEKEND.DJ
Las Vegas, NV
Reply With Quote
  #24  
Old February 1st, 2009, 11:50 AM
muzicman144 muzicman144 is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: May 2003
Location: Richmond, Va
Posts: 329
The Economy

I also see a trend of the clubs buying their own systems, (which is cheaper than a pay as you sing jukebox) and either getting a host or doing it themselves, like Mark. A couple of clubs in my area let some of their karaoke singers host for no pay using the house system, and don't seem to have a problem doing it. But, as i said, the professional host who knows how to work a crowd will always find a place to work. This trend is really putting the "pretenders" out of work.
muzicman
Reply With Quote
  #25  
Old February 1st, 2009, 12:48 PM
RIKKI TIKKI's Avatar
RIKKI TIKKI RIKKI TIKKI is offline
VIP
 
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: NOGALES, AZ.
Posts: 1,200
Quote:
Originally Posted by billyo View Post
if doing karaoke is your main source of income, i could understand, no you can't be thin skinned, but it's not my main source of income, even though i've invested alot on my equipments and to me it's just a hobby, i can't be thick skinned.i can't see myself charging customers to sing
Billy'O,

You're right about expensive hobbies, and most here would envy your position to play small private parties on weekends, where you get to sing along with your friends! Then you throw in the term customer, and this implies that you are charging something to do these private parties, and thus are charging your clients/customers to sing! Granted it's not the $ jukebox variety that we previously discussed! But....

I hope your hobby fulfills your love to sing and entertain, and have a gathering that is appreciative to have you and your equipments there for their enjoyment!

When the hobbyist tries to come out in a professional atmosphere, and has to compete with the full time KJ's/Dj's, then he enters the lair of lion, and is competing for what the lion requires to exist, and better be prepared to run a little faster than the rest of the herd, or face being swallowed up! (please excuse this analogy, but it was the scenario that seemed to fit!)

This thread pertains to the professional KJ, and how the poor economy is affecting their business!

Rick
Rikki Tikki Karaoke
Reply With Quote
  #26  
Old February 1st, 2009, 01:25 PM
muzicman144 muzicman144 is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: May 2003
Location: Richmond, Va
Posts: 329
Quote:
Originally Posted by RIKKI TIKKI View Post
Billy'O,


This thread pertains to the professional KJ, and how the poor economy is affecting their business!

Rick
Rikki Tikki Karaoke
I believe this thread should not be limited to just KJ/DJ, as there are professional singer/entertainers that use this same MTU software, karaoke tracks, to entertain for pay at the same type of club as the KJ/DJ. We are all affected in this type of economic times.
muzicman
Reply With Quote
  #27  
Old February 1st, 2009, 01:47 PM
billyo billyo is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: Las Vegas, NV
Posts: 2,202
Quote:
Originally Posted by RIKKI TIKKI View Post
Billy'O,

You're right about expensive hobbies, and most here would envy your position to play small private parties on weekends, where you get to sing along with your friends! Then you throw in the term customer, and this implies that you are charging something to do these private parties, and thus are charging your clients/customers to sing! Granted it's not the $ jukebox variety that we previously discussed! But....

I hope your hobby fulfills your love to sing and entertain, and have a gathering that is appreciative to have you and your equipments there for their enjoyment!

When the hobbyist tries to come out in a professional atmosphere, and has to compete with the full time KJ's/Dj's, then he enters the lair of lion, and is competing for what the lion requires to exist, and better be prepared to run a little faster than the rest of the herd, or face being swallowed up! (please excuse this analogy, but it was the scenario that seemed to fit!)

This thread pertains to the professional KJ, and how the poor economy is affecting their business!

Rick
Rikki Tikki Karaoke

no apology necesary ,i kinda consider my self a pro,i played in a band for 10 yrs. as a guitar player overseas mostly in southeast asia, played big venues djing at hotels, parks,japanese restaurants, company functions the size of an auditoruim ) i used to play (kj )3days a week all over south florida from West Palm Beach to Miami, mostly in West Palm ,and still go to work at my Gov't job during the day, but i never compete with anybody nor i go out looking for work, i get my djing/kj work thru word of mouth and not by putting out flyers or handing out business cards,when i do charged i charge the people that hired me, not the restaurants customer or host/hostess guests.so i think i can ran faster than the herd and i still call this a hobby a very expensive hobby, i call this a hobby caused i dont have to worry if i am going have a gig this week or next week..
__________________
BILLY O' WEEKEND.DJ
Las Vegas, NV

Last edited by billyo; February 1st, 2009 at 02:06 PM.
Reply With Quote
  #28  
Old February 1st, 2009, 11:05 PM
RIKKI TIKKI's Avatar
RIKKI TIKKI RIKKI TIKKI is offline
VIP
 
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: NOGALES, AZ.
Posts: 1,200
Quote:
Originally Posted by muzicman144 View Post
I believe this thread should not be limited to just KJ/DJ, as there are professional singer/entertainers that use this same MTU software, karaoke tracks, to entertain for pay at the same type of club as the KJ/DJ. We are all affected in this type of economic times.
muzicman
You are very correct! I was just trying to differentiate between the professional and the hobbyist! This thread pertains to the professional side of entertaining, and the consequences that the poor economy has wreaked upon all of us PROFESSIONAL Hoster users, whether it be KJ/DJ/Singers or....? If you play for pay, then you are competing for the same stage!

Entertaining is the key word! Everybody can entertain someone, even if it's only themselves! The question is whether you want to make a living by only being a KJ/DJ/Singer, or if you have enough juice to do it as a hobbyist, and not make it your only job! There is room for both, as long as you don't disturb the lion! Growl...!!!

Rick
Rikki Tikki Karaoke
Reply With Quote
  #29  
Old February 1st, 2009, 11:35 PM
marklwood's Avatar
marklwood marklwood is offline
Honor Roll
 
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: Joplin, MO
Posts: 960
Quote:
Originally Posted by muzicman144 View Post
I also see a trend of the clubs buying their own systems, (which is cheaper than a pay as you sing jukebox) and either getting a host or doing it themselves, like Mark. A couple of clubs in my area let some of their karaoke singers host for no pay using the house system, and don't seem to have a problem doing it. But, as i said, the professional host who knows how to work a crowd will always find a place to work. This trend is really putting the "pretenders" out of work.
muzicman
I too am forced on occasion to let a regular singer stand in for me. They do it without pay, but you get what you pay for. Even though most of the people don't complain too much about the occasional emergency, I am concerned about the people who may only be there for the first time. Without knowing that it is just an emergency use of an available warm body to run the karaoke, it may be their last time here and I would never know it. On the few times I have used someone like that, I am bar tending. I make it a point to get on the mike a couple of times to "thank" this person for getting me out of a tight spot. It makes them feel good about filling in, and lets the customers know that this is only a temporary situation. I couldn't see the economics of using this as a permanent solution. While it would cut the overhead, consistency would suffer. Even if you think you are the greatest entertainer, if you aren't consistent with your singers, your numbers will suffer. Try just changing the color of your pencils and listen to the complaining

Politics aside, this will turn around eventually. You just have to ride it out. Learn to tighten the belt when you need to. There will always be a place for live entertainment. We just have to figure out how to maximize the profit potential in our own areas. I look back on my years as an entertainer and think of all the work I had to put in between shows. Learning new songs, repairing equipment, driving to the next gig, and finding a decent place to stay etc, etc. I'll take this any day of the week.
__________________
Test machine:
Vista Home Premium / Toshiba Satelitte X205 / 2.0GHz Core2 Duo / 2GB memory / 2x NVIDIA GeForce 8600M GT
Reply With Quote
  #30  
Old February 2nd, 2009, 12:50 AM
billyo billyo is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: Las Vegas, NV
Posts: 2,202
there are i believed 385 bars in where i'm from, and most of them or all of them has either bands or karaoke's sometimes they have both on diff. days, i know most of the kj's in my area, and i know that 90% of them does karaoke as their main source of income, and sometimes i get a job offers , the first thing i asked was " if they already have someone doing it for them or did they ever have karaoke before, if they said yes on the first question, i would turn it down, i dont take gigs from other kj's and i will give them a # to call, and if no for the second question , then i will do it.. ( i only play for bars/ restaurants that never had karaoke before.)since the economy started going down, we now have an influxed of kj's coming from diff. counties trying to take jobs for less pay ( i get calls from diff. kj's asking me if i ever heard of such and such person , since they know that i've been in this business longer than some of them and knew my reputation)but anyway it's a cut throat world out there right now, and i hope that doing karaoke wont be a thing of the past...
__________________
BILLY O' WEEKEND.DJ
Las Vegas, NV
Reply With Quote
  #31  
Old February 2nd, 2009, 01:46 PM
madjim- with the Lord madjim- with the Lord is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: Valdosta GA
Posts: 2,764
Quote:
Originally Posted by bryant View Post
Although there is another thread on this, how much do you charge, may I ask?
Hey Bryant,
You've always said that you were in one of the poorest areas in the country. Seeing any changes in Maine?

Jim
__________________
Don't Hate, Participate. GOD Bless!
http://madjim.com http://www.myspace.com/madjimhall http://www.youtube.com/madjimhall

Test Comp #1: P4 3GHz * 3gb RAM * XP Home SP3 * IE8 * WMP11 * NF3.5 * Onboard Sound * Onboard Video * * * MTU Rack (Show Computer) * P4 3GHz * 3gb RAM* XP Home SP3 * IE7 * WMP11 * NF3.5 * Sound Blaster PCI-512 * ATI Raydeon 9200
Reply With Quote
  #32  
Old February 3rd, 2009, 10:55 AM
Bi-Polar Bear Bi-Polar Bear is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
Posts: 53
I'm in North Carolina and adversely effected by the economic downturn although I also work as a live musician and business is sill good there...except of course that the first quarter is always slower.

I have seen my karaoke business go way down however and I think one of the main reasons here is that there are a million mom and poppers out there who give away the service. I will stay home and collect welfare before I start my truck for 100.00 or 150.00.

I have worked as a touring musician, dj/kj, events planner and games and rides provider in the private, corporate, club and college market for over 30 years and I can tell you that in the Southeast they are motivated by cost and it is a very cautious market. They will hire an operator with two ten inch speakers and 1000 songs in their books over a true pro to save 25.00 a night.

the economy will turn around and those of us who have chosen to make their full time living as entertainers will ride it out. I've had some super highs and low lows in my life but on the whole the fact that I've never put on a power tie and headed out on I-40 to work at 6:30 am with the rest of the pack makes it all worthwhile.
Reply With Quote
  #33  
Old February 3rd, 2009, 03:50 PM
muzicman144 muzicman144 is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: May 2003
Location: Richmond, Va
Posts: 329
The Economy

Again, I think this downturn of economics is not necessarily a bad thing for this business. First, it weeds out the "pretenders", helps "some" of the talent buyers realize it takes a first class product to lure enough customers to "make" it. I'm willing to bet there isn't anyone in this business, that is a true talented entertainer, that's really worried about going out of business. I haven't advertised for twenty years, only got a business card two or three years ago, and don't solicit work. Business is good and picking up. I play from Va-Florida. I don't give out what i make, but it is above the average i hear mentioned on this forum. I have seen this business change from playing only Wednesday and maybe a thursday (live bands played on fri-sat) for peanuts, to playing five -six nights a week. I believe the live 5 piece bands will suffer along with the lesser talented KJ/DJ. For the pro's out there, hold steady with your prices, as you draw the crowds. For the lesser talented, learn this trade, get the right equipment and compete on a " professional" level.
Hope i haven't insulted anyone, as, as this is one entertainer's view only.
muzicman
Reply With Quote
  #34  
Old February 3rd, 2009, 08:32 PM
bryant's Avatar
bryant bryant is offline
VIP
 
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: Winslow, Maine
Posts: 4,535
Quote:
Originally Posted by madjim View Post
Hey Bryant,
You've always said that you were in one of the poorest areas in the country. Seeing any changes in Maine?

Jim
Only a little, but not so much in the bar business. As I've said before, there isn't much money around here at all anyway. I have noticed that the drinkers still always go out and find the money to spend on drinks, even those without jobs. They always find a way to get drunk, that's what a lot of ppl around here are good at, and those are the ones that don't work, usually. The normal working person, around here, maybe comes out a little bit less, but those were the type that didn't go out that much to begin with anyway.
The thursday night gig at Applebees that I've been doing for three months and barely breaking even there was just starting to pick up just a little. The corporate mgt. said that they are to close anything down that they are putting out money for even though they were making a lil bit on karaoke, the other applebees in the area were running in the red. But, they said they're gonna call me in the Spring. Funny, too, the place was packed that last night. Another bar called me this morning and asked if I was available this Thursday. Just lucky, I guess.

But, you know, I can't remember a time in history where there wasn't some kind of economic slowdown going on, or some kind of recession coming, or some kind of recession were in. I mean really, do you really ever remember a time where a new (or in-office) president ever said "Boy, times are really good right now, I think we're all set". It seems like every point in history has been a "not so good time right now to spend money", and the cost of this or that will be going up and ppl will be losing jobs.

In fact, I'm thinking right now of retiring from my regular fulltime day job as a teacher with full benefits, including dental and eye care (a 100% paid) and decent salary (for Maine) working only 8 months a year. I'm 58. Iwould be retiring at 61 anyway.

I'll just gig a little more during the week where I have been taking it easy and perhaps promote a few more wedding gigs too.
__________________

Reply With Quote
  #35  
Old February 3rd, 2009, 11:57 PM
ddouglass ddouglass is offline
Super Moderator
 
Join Date: Nov 2004
Location: Ace, TX (5 miles past Nowhere)
Posts: 9,395
Bryant just out of curiosity just what do you teach?
By the way retired life is great! I am in an area like yours where it is a down economy all the time. Too many people are out of work with little to no industry in this area at all. So nothing really new here except higher prices for food. Those who do work have to drive to Houston or Beaumont to work. They all need some entertainment and drinks on the weekend and we only have 2 1/2 bars in the area (the half is an Amvets club with limited membership). We play at one place (VFW) on Friday and Saturday and I won't set foot or equipment in the other. Too many fights, drugs etc in that one.
Since we only play the two nights to supplement our retirement income and not looking for more I really am not feeling anything or the recession except for slightly higher prices and that really is nothing new.
__________________
Dale Douglass
2nd Generation Karaoke
I am not a member of the MTU Staff.
Reply With Quote
  #36  
Old February 4th, 2009, 01:49 AM
bryant's Avatar
bryant bryant is offline
VIP
 
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: Winslow, Maine
Posts: 4,535
Quote:
Originally Posted by ddouglass View Post
Bryant just out of curiosity just what do you teach?
By the way retired life is great! I am in an area like yours where it is a down economy all the time. Too many people are out of work with little to no industry in this area at all. So nothing really new here except higher prices for food. Those who do work have to drive to Houston or Beaumont to work. They all need some entertainment and drinks on the weekend and we only have 2 1/2 bars in the area (the half is an Amvets club with limited membership). We play at one place (VFW) on Friday and Saturday and I won't set foot or equipment in the other. Too many fights, drugs etc in that one.
Since we only play the two nights to supplement our retirement income and not looking for more I really am not feeling anything or the recession except for slightly higher prices and that really is nothing new.
I teach Biology, Dale. I was a mechanical engineer in an electric power company before that; got layed off. 1994.

Sort of getting tired of explaining to parents why their kids who have never even opened a book are failing their classes. Administrators make up all these new ways to teach, and cliches like "kids don't have the right to fail", and la-di-da. I spend more time in workshops and seminars then the kids do in class, and I work for a very strict private school. AS everyone knows, nothing much will change if only one side of a relationship(student/teacher in this case) is willing to make changes. High schools in our country are more like a social event, aren't they. I wonder how it would be if education was extra-curricular and we had to ask the coaches if a kid could be excused from a game to attend class. I'd rather not complain about anything, so leaving the situation puts me out of the loop where complaining won't even be necessary.

I think there are plenty of jobs around here for 5 to 7 dollars an hour, but most ppl think they are too qualified for those jobs and apply for those they are not at all qualified for. The others make excuses and just choose not to work.

I'll be in the same boat you're in soon. Just adding on to security income.
__________________

Reply With Quote
  #37  
Old February 4th, 2009, 11:47 AM
ddouglass ddouglass is offline
Super Moderator
 
Join Date: Nov 2004
Location: Ace, TX (5 miles past Nowhere)
Posts: 9,395
I taught Electronics for 8 years and know teacher burnout when I see it. I fully understand what you mean about student apathy and it doesn't stop at High School. I taught for 3 years at a junior college level and the kids were the same way, even though they were paying a lot of money to fail their classes.
__________________
Dale Douglass
2nd Generation Karaoke
I am not a member of the MTU Staff.
Reply With Quote
  #38  
Old February 4th, 2009, 06:37 PM
billyo billyo is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: Las Vegas, NV
Posts: 2,202
funny you guys( bryant & dale ) are talking about retirement, i've been thinking about doing the same thing ( early retirment ),i'll be 54 this year ,and i'm going on my 30yrs. as a local gov't employee, just can't figure out what to do, my wife is not in a hurry to retire she's much ( not that much ) younger than i am and she's a surgical nurse, i would love to just do karaoke, but since the economy is bad right now, i dont wanna take jobs from other kjs that depends on playing karaoke for a living,so i just decided to do just private parties, as a matter of fact i've been getting calls from people asking me to play for this coming valentines day, i already have given 2 gigs to a friend of mine, and i will only do one...some of my friends that does applebees aroud here, are doing pretty good, friday nights are their busy nights.sat. is a little slow, but anyway they took the banner with my name off at the place where i used to worked for almost 4 years, the new kj that they had only worked 1 night , when he started charging people to sing, cust. walked out..
__________________
BILLY O' WEEKEND.DJ
Las Vegas, NV
Reply With Quote
  #39  
Old February 5th, 2009, 04:08 PM
gotrich gotrich is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Apr 2004
Location: Hebrom IN
Posts: 302
NW Indiana

Here it has gotten even worse. than a few years ago. There is so much competition its not funny. With the mills going out and factories closing and moving to Mexico and the general crunch of the economy it sucks. I have 4 sets of equipment. I run 1 and have 3 sub contracted people. I try to charge 150 durring the week for a 9-1(or2) and 200 on a weekend for a show of the same.

I am doing good to offer a 100/ first 4 weeks then 125 on a week day and 150 on a weekend.

Crappy competiton is a big part of it. I care about my customers and want. I am not the get drunk with the crowd, get a BJ in the parking lot, or work for beer kinda guy!

in a small 25 mile radius there are at least 15 guys that I CAN NAME! there are too many guys working for 50$ and free beer.

I also have trouble keeping workers. I use to split the nights pay 50$ me 100$ then but now its been more 25$ me 100$ them or 35/90. they dont like the idea of 25/75 AT ALL.. What am I to do.. more games more gimmicks..that mean more money im out to achieve same results...
__________________
www.myspace.com/drkaraoke
Reply With Quote
  #40  
Old February 6th, 2009, 05:01 PM
bryant's Avatar
bryant bryant is offline
VIP
 
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: Winslow, Maine
Posts: 4,535
Quote:
Originally Posted by billyo View Post
funny you guys( bryant & dale ) are talking about retirement, i've been thinking about doing the same thing ( early retirment ),i'll be 54 this year ,and i'm going on my 30yrs. as a local gov't employee, just can't figure out what to do, my wife is not in a hurry to retire she's much ( not that much ) younger than i am and she's a surgical nurse, i would love to just do karaoke, but since the economy is bad right now, i dont wanna take jobs from other kjs that depends on playing karaoke for a living,so i just decided to do just private parties, as a matter of fact i've been getting calls from people asking me to play for this coming valentines day, i already have given 2 gigs to a friend of mine, and i will only do one...some of my friends that does applebees aroud here, are doing pretty good, friday nights are their busy nights.sat. is a little slow, but anyway they took the banner with my name off at the place where i used to worked for almost 4 years, the new kj that they had only worked 1 night , when he started charging people to sing, cust. walked out..
How much did he/you get at Applebee's?
__________________

Reply With Quote
Reply


Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off


All times are GMT -4. The time now is 07:47 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.7.1
Copyright ©2009 - 2024, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
The contents of this forum are copyrighted by Micro Technology Unlimited, 2000-2008. Use of any material from these Forums is prohibited without written agreement from MTU.