Legal or illegal

[muzicman144]

I notice there is a lot of questions on the legal vs illegel status of Hoster users. Human nature being what it is, after even a few years of KJing with Hoster and using computer files, it is hard to believe everyone is 100% legal, with not even one little file or song slipping through. I admit to being 98% legal, but i don't do Karaoke shows, but i guess the question i'm curious about is how many of you could stand the test of the Song Police doing a thorough search all your files. Now the fear of a search will prevent a lot of you from answering this question, but after all the claims, and i'm sure there are a lot who are 100% legal, curosity just gets the best of me. I do have a about 5 songs obtained from a studio of music that i reproduce for songs i couldn't find on karaoke sites and a couple of files given to me by other singers. Does this make me illegal, well, yes, legally. Is my intent to defraud the song owners, no, but, legally, i guess its true.
I consider an illegal status as some one who just blatantly rips off all files without regard and does not buy the music legally. Is this what i have done, no, but???????? Anyone care to step to the plate?

[billyo]

i know a kj that used to used Hoster, and she was having so much problem with Hoster, that another kj persuaded her to use another program, and she was told that she could go in his website and he'll put her name on his list of friends then register as a friend and from there she could download his karaoke songs ( mp3files )in which she's been doing, now i think that is illegal, and i warned her about it, and i was told that this kj's been doing it for a while..

[bryant]

Originally Posted by billyo

i know a kj that used to used Hoster, and she was having so much problem with Hoster, that another kj persuaded her to use another program, and she was told that she could go in his website and he'll put her name on his list of friends then register as a friend and from there she could download his karaoke songs ( mp3files )in which she's been doing, now i think that is illegal, and i warned her about it, and i was told that this kj's been doing it for a while..

A friend of mine who I used to do their bonfire karaoke parties for said he bought a laptop system from a legitimate KJ sales guy here in Maine. Okay this is what he bought:
For three thousand dollars he bought a pair of cheap speakers, a laptop loaded with Compuhost (bite my tongue), and a hard drive with 75, 000 karaoke songs 3000 DJ songs and 500 videos and two free lessons on how to set up and run a show....and the option to purchase another Hard drive with 75,000 more songs in the near future..for only 350 dollars. Can you imagine.
I almost puked.

He thinks he did nothing wrong as he paid someone money that advertised as a KJ sales guy to sell these things. I told him he was 100% illegal. He says well, it's only for my own bonfires and I won't be any competion of yours anyway.

Then, I find out, that he swaps a copy of his HD (75,000 songs) for a set of speakers with a Kj I sort of compete with. (This other guy works every other Friday where I work at). Now this guy advertises he has many more songs than anyone, even me, (I have 15,000 collected over many years mostly by requests and cost me a jillion dollars, although my parents did buy me the complete legend series for Christmas several years ago). Anyway, these two guys advertised the fact at his show that "Thanks to Ron, I (Karaoke John) now have ALL the songs you people require".

So you can see that this "HD" is probably going to saturate my area and this other guy that sells these things is making it rich. Go Figure.

These are the guys they need to get.

[billyo]

well this friend of mine has all the original disc before this kj persuaded her to go to another karaoke program, and i've been helping her with her hoster problems, she kinda quit calling me when i started to ask her to buy things that would make her laptop run better, last time i heard was she bought a 1 terrabyte hhd, due to the fact that she has more songs now from dowloading it to this kj website, and i heard from other kj's that this kj's been selling hhd too with songs in it, this guy has about 3 people running his show from diff. places..

[ddouglass]

The ones selling this stuff are the ones that need to be turned in to stop.

[muzicman144]

Hey, the question was not whether you know somebody who is illegal or illegal, we all know someone who is or is not. The question was whether YOU are 100% legal or illegal. Dodging the question is sometimes taken as an answer. I understand if one doesn't want to answer the question. I freely admit I'm not 100% legal, but, **** close. Not ashamed that i am not 100% correct but don't feel i'm in the catergory of the rip off artist either. Either way one chooses, its a path they have to live with.
muzicman144

[mindonstrike]

I just got a news letter from the KIAA that mentioned that SC is going after pirates in Phoenix. Sadly it looks like they are getting a chance to buy their music before being named in the suit.

In another story they announced that they (KIAA) is in the process of trying to shutdown buykaraokedownloads.com because they are an illegal site and are recommending anyone who bought from them try to get their money back.
I have about 10 songs from them so I guess I am illegal.

Sam

[ddouglass]

We are 99.9% legal. We have one song that you can no longer get for a regular that is there every show. Being legal is one thing I insisted on when we started.
Lets see Sam 75,000 songs at 2 - 3 dollars each.....$150,000 - $225,000. I don't think I could earn that much in a lifetime of karaoke. Glad I'm legal.

[billyo]

i'm not 100% legal either..but close..does that answer your question?i have 8 big binders of original cdg's & 8 big binders of duplicates disc, and yes i bought all of them, like the saying goes you have to spend money to make money and so far i havent seen any of the money yet between the disc and my gears i am not gonna see a single penny, i'm glad i dont do this for a living..

[Musicman51]

I'm sure everyone has got a song or two, putting it nicely, that are not legal. I have got original disc i have lost, lend out and never gotten back but i never deleated them, and i don't plan on it. Never really heard of the karaoke police, but i like it..lol Sure let them look my stuff over, i'm sure i'd make it. Now i don't have 75,000 songs, or a bunch of hard drives floating around but i do subscribe to chartbuster country monthly and pop. At least i try to stay current. Ebay should do a better job of watching this type of piracy in both karaoke and dj disc and hard drives. If someone told me they had 75,000 songs, i'd tend to believe they are not theirs. Billyo, i like your post, i haven't made much money at this either. I do more free things, then paying gigs lately it seems. As far as that organization mentioned, i have read mostly negitive things about them on the karaoke forum, but hey, at least it's a start. But they shore best be careful going into a club, and calling someone a thief, could result in a lawsuit or two.

[billyo]

Originally Posted by Musicman51

I'm sure everyone has got a song or two, putting it nicely, that are not legal. I have got original disc i have lost, lend out and never gotten back but i never deleated them, and i don't plan on it. Never really heard of the karaoke police, but i like it..lol Sure let them look my stuff over, i'm sure i'd make it. Now i don't have 75,000 songs, or a bunch of hard drives floating around but i do subscribe to chartbuster country monthly and pop. At least i try to stay current. Ebay should do a better job of watching this type of piracy in both karaoke and dj disc and hard drives. If someone told me they had 75,000 songs, i'd tend to believe they are not theirs. Billyo, i like your post, i haven't made much money at this either. I do more free things, then paying gigs lately it seems. As far as that organization mentioned, i have read mostly negitive things about them on the karaoke forum, but hey, at least it's a start. But they shore best be careful going into a club, and calling someone a thief, could result in a lawsuit or two.

yeah, i havent made any money doing karaoke, and i dont expect getting any of them back, i have duplicates of everything or may i say 2 of everything, bunch of 500g hhd for my kma files and cloned of my internal drives..heck i even got duplicates ( back-ups ) of my itunes music in one big binders ( 4,674 mp3's) and in my ipod ,that i bought from itunes. for .99 , i just love playing music and to see other people having a good time. i quit doing nightly gigs , nor i got out looking for one,i only do private gigs now, all the offers i got doing nightly karaoke gigs where given to friends of mine that does this for a living, i know that most of us that does karaoke is not 100 % legal..but anyway That's life....

[Lonman]

I know everything on my drive is exactly what I have sitting on my counter of original discs. I did have 2 PHM discs from 96 that I had burned from a friend, but got rid of those when I got the computer as I had all those songs dup'd on better quality brands. I do not download anything, any specialty request songs are purchased via custom disc sites so I have a physical disc in possession (and to be able to use if the computer goes down). I do not store customer discs on the drive, they must bring me their disc each time even though they know of 'others' who just offer to store their discs for them then I explain that they basically just GAVE this kj what they paid for & that I can pretty much guarantee that if someone walked in to sing the songs on that disc, the kj would not say - oh no, this wasn't my disc, I am just storing it .
I would say I am 99.9999% leaning to full 100% legal.

[WaltR]

Well I guess I am not 100%, but close. I don't know anyone that has been busted. I would assume if there really are Karaoke Police they would be hitting the clubs in bigger areas. I can't imagine that in the middle of a gig....here comes the Karaoke Police but maybe I'm wrong. If it happens to me, I guess I'll be busted. Some of my older cdg's were stolen so if I got nailed, I wouldn't have those disks and can't prove I ever bought them.

[muzicman144]

Thanks to all who responded. It is about what i figured. I didn't think anyone would come on and say they pirated all their music. You guys, that are the front runners in this forum, that stepped up are really to be commended for your honesty. It is so hard these days with the easy access to files, or just losing a disc could make one "illegal".
SESAC seems to be the body today that's working these clubs for annual money for music played in our venues. I'm more concerned with their antics than i am with the "Karaoke Police". The fees they want to charge are just beyond the capability to pay of some small venues. I reallize that protecting a writer or singer's rights and assuring they will get paid for their work that is re-produced is necessary, but, i pay for the right to perform it when i buy the disc, and they also want to charge the club where i excercise that right.
This whole business of "protecting" the artist seems to be getting out of hand. Probably 85% of any money collected by any of the "artist protection" people is going to overhead and the artist only sees pennies.
I believe an artist's protection should be limited to material that is printed, recorded material, re-recorded material, and broadcast music.
muzicman144

[ddouglass]

For one thing MTU and those of us here that do most of the helping, do not condone piracy and try hard to discourage it. Most of those who do pirate usually do not want to be known in here.
As long as the venue owner pays to required fees up front for their use of the music then it usually isn't that bad. It is the ones who don't and are visited who have a higher fee to pay or face court. That aside as it sits those fees are the venue's responsibilty. I have never heard of SESAC ever bothering with the KJ himself. That would be the KIAA. These are the people that will want to check the legality of your music.
I did find that KIAA has expanded their website and are trying to help the legal KJs and venues to stay this way. Their web site is http://www.thekiaa.org/ and there is a very interesting flyer they have done up that will possible help those of us that are legal to weed out the pirates. It is located here
http://www.thekiaa.org/kjs-avoid-losing-your-shows.html

[billyo]

i do admit that i'm not 100% legal, but who is ? most of the time they don't bother small establishments, i know caused i used to play for one,( asian restaurant/bar ) they came around and measured the bldg. capacity and this place sits about 90 ppl, including the dining room, they told the owner that he should pay some kind of royalty, and that was the last time he heard from them, till i left a yr. ago.

[marklwood]

As a venue owner I can tell you that the KJ is of very little concern to the powers that be. When you decide to sue someone, you look for the deep pocket. How many KJs have one? But the venue owner, that is another story. They aren't going anywhere and usually have some assets worth enough to go after. I my personal, and very unscientific opinion, the only way a KJ would be in trouble is if he got caught up in litigation with the venue that wasn't paying their performance fees. If you are performing at any venue, at least be informed if they are paying their performance fees. You can then make an informed decision as to whether or not you want to play there. If you are 100% legal, you would never have a problem. If you are a pirate, I would think twice.

[RIKKI TIKKI]

Originally Posted by marklwood

As a venue owner I can tell you that the KJ is of very little concern to the powers that be. When you decide to sue someone, you look for the deep pocket. How many KJs have one? But the venue owner, that is another story. They aren't going anywhere and usually have some assets worth enough to go after. I my personal, and very unscientific opinion, the only way a KJ would be in trouble is if he got caught up in litigation with the venue that wasn't paying their performance fees. If you are performing at any venue, at least be informed if they are paying their performance fees. You can then make an informed decision as to whether or not you want to play there. If you are 100% legal, you would never have a problem. If you are a pirate, I would think twice.

Mark is correct! The only horror stories that you hear about involving BMI or ASCAP, etc. shutting down a venue/bar/club is for not paying the performance royalty fees, whether it be the live performances, the jukebox, or the elevator music. And the fees/penalties don't involve just a slap on the hand, if these "Royalty Police" wish to prosecute!

Be Safe, stay legal, sell it to your venue owner/manager that you are 100% legal and your gigs will be stable and longlasting when having to compete against the "Fly-By-Nights"! Arrg!

[RandyMcCharles]

I am 100% legal. I have purchased about 600 CDGs and that is all that is on my HD. I also have 3 custom CDGs that a friend bought on the HD so that she does not have to bring them to house parties, but those songs are flagged as hidden in the song book and marked in the title field as 'private' so that I can ignore them on search results. They only exist on her Singers list. I have purchased about 20 custom CDGs from vendors who prove they are properly licenses. Even though 1 or 2 of these vendors have a pay & download option I have always gone the 'ship me a CDG' route so that I have physical proof of purchase. I am not nor ever have been a business. I have purchased everything as a hobby and do home shows with friends and the occasional charity show. At some point I will probably start doing paid shows and when I do I will be legal.

On another note, what about the issue of manufacturers and vendors who claim they are legit and fully licensed when in truth their practices may have been less than 100%. eg. I have 'heard' that Sweet Georgia Brown has questionable tracks. I have also 'heard' that the even Sound Choice has issues, an example being their U2 CDG that was pulled a few years back. I have no details on any of this as anything beyond rumor does not seem readily available. So while I have bought CGDs in good faith, it could be that some of the manufacturers and resellers have have created and sold me the goods in bad faith.

[muzicman144]

IMHO, the KIAA appears to have been organized by the producers of karaoke music whose main concern in to get KJs to inform on other KJs. sort of like the Brown shirts of Nazism or "big brother'. They have no other vested power authorized by anyone except to pursue this avenue of additional revenue protecting their own coffers by getting the KJs to report other KJs, and for many, this doesn't mean a ligitimate complaint. This is very dangerous territory for everyone. Not only can it result in prosecution of karaoke "pirates", but can become a mass of retaliation complaints by disgruntled employees, jealous KJs, and other KJ's wanting to get in on anothers turf. As was stated, you lose disc by accident, fire, or theft, and you are illegal, if you have no proof of purchase. How many of you kept your receipts or could pass the KIAA test as written????? Having a disc doesn't mean you purchase it legally, but is just accepted.
I see the KIAA as basically a vigilante group pursuing their own agenda (Look at their board) by encouraging the KJs to become KIAA informer. I don't see where they can accomplish anything for the KJ, but can see big benefits to themselves using informers.
SESAC is basically the same, but they do not pursue the military clubs beyond a letter asking them to pay, same with the fraternal orders. They will vigorously pursue the private club all the way to court and they pride themselves in never losing a case. I do not know of one single fraternal or military order that pays the fees and they are the biggest employer of musicians in this country. But I understand why they don't!!!
I cannot see any good coming out of this that will benefit me in anyway and i started using tracks when there were no words (graphics to the new breed of KJ).
muzicman144