Interesting Perspective

[jahern]

So far I am only a singer. I did one job a couple of weeks ago, but that was more in the way of providing appropriate music for a retirement dinner and ceremony.

As a singer, I resent any method that is not first come first serve. The place I go to has a sign-up list. They tell people not to sign up again until after they have sung.

I am a regular, but then again I'm not. I'm not a big time drink buyer. I don't drink alcohol but I always keep my whistle wet with diet coke or something like that. I do understand the reality of selling product and recognize my importance when it comes to that. (I come in second) However I think in the sense of being a "Regular" I am an important part of the line-up.

I never resent when anybody sings, good, bad, early, late, group, solo, etc. as long as it's their turn. I would feel guilty if I felt someone was being held back so the regulars could sing. Sometimes I go on a Friday when they start early. It takes time to establish a rotation. I don't mind when someone finally gets the courage to sign up and they go right up. But when a decent rotation has been established, I feel like the Host is not considerate of my feelings when they start to put people in ahead of their turns. I don't think that it accomplishes that much in the positive. And I feel that it offends the people that come regularly and like to get up. (Don't we all? )

[George]

Jahern,

As a singer I agree with you 100%.

The best analogy I can think of is the case where you been standing in a check out line at the grocery store for 15 minutes or so and they grab the people from the end of the line to open a new register.

Really get's to you, doesn't it?...and the resentful feelings include not as much as the people who didn't have feelings enough to say " they have been waiting longer than me", as it does the establishment and mainly the checker.

I see no difference.

George

[danny_g]

Originally posted by MaddMatt
Flip

As the title of this thead confirms, I think that is an interesting perspective

In the end, if the Kj is trying to be fair and that is apparent then I guess any of the above ways will work fine.

Do you ever let the people know that you are sprinkling in new peope? For all the talking that KJ's do doing a show, it seems that some forget to keep everyone appraised of what is going on: Who is next, who is on deck, etc.

Madd Matt

forgot to mention that When I insert a new singer late I always anounce that what I'm doing is giving the new singer a chance to sing. Most of my regulars know this is how I operate and it has actually added more regulars to my shows. ANd I also encourage the latecomers to come in earlier so they get to sing more songs.
Usually they do come in because all the other KJ's in my area will let their friends or any good loking girl sing multiple songs before a newcomer gets a chance to sing and the newcomer's slip was in longer than their friends or the girl's slips. So they end up choosing to come to my show rather than my competition.

[flipper]

Depends on who Im putting them in front of. Usually I announce that there are x number of new singers coming into the rotation and that usually does it. Most of my customers understand that this will happen as the rotation grows. There are no suprises and I have never had anyone complain in 4 years.

You may or may not agree with this but it works great for my shows.

Flip

[jahern]

Flipper

I've seen a lot of human activity in my _ _ years. Someone usually complains about something. (If noone else, then give me a chance.) I am amazed at your track record.

Maybe I don't understand. (Not the first time) How do you mix people in?

This is my idea of a sign in sheet.

I sign my name, song number, disc and track number. (I look that stuff up in a book)

I take my turn with 4 other people lets say because only five other people are there that want to sing. After I sing, I sign up again. During one of my performances, someone comes in, it's her divorce day and she wants to sing "I Will Survive" with her friend. (She obviously doesn't care that someone sang it a half hour ago ) They sign up. Now the "rotation" has become 6 people without the Host having to Announce anything. I have to wait longer. That's to be expected. The Host just checks off the performances on the sign-in sheet.

"Miss Survival" is done. She and her friend were horrible but who cares. She has said her peace. "Rotation back to 5 without any announcement.

More people come in. The rotation grows and subsides without a lot of shuffling around on the part of the Host. It seems fair and efficient. How is another system better?

Even in this system, I've seen plenty of complaining from people about the length of time they need to wait when the Host is simply calling the people one at a time exactly as they are signed-in. (Totally Fair and un-biased) Of course it really starts to fly if the Host is calling people up out of order.

I have gone through the "Fill out a slip" system. I was in agony all night. Did this Jackel lose my slip? Is he constantly shuffling me to the bottom because I'm not one of his regulars?? When are you up honey, I have no idea!!

Anyway, do you mix people in ahead of what would be their normal time if they just signed up using a sign up sheet?

[Flipeoke]

I use the list system too, only once you sign up, that is your spot in the rotation. As new singers come in they get added to the bottom of the list. The only problem I have run into with this method, and it's a minor problem usually, is when a singer comes in just before I get to the end of the rotation, before I start at the top again. Hey as the saying goes timing is everything. Once in awhile someone will mention hey that guy/girl just got here and got to sing next...how come? I'll explain the rotation which usually satisfies the person.
Also if the person is new my show (usually when they come up and ask for request slips) I explain how my rotation works and most like it. If I am getting close to a singer on the list that hasn't put in their next song, and its a long rotation, I will go over to their table and mention they are up in 5 songs. If they miss their turn, I give them two options, to have a new spot at the bottom of the list, which then becomes their new spot, or to wait til I get back around to their original spot.

I accept up to three songs from a person at one time, after that it's sing one add one. This way one person can't 'reserve' all the good songs to sing.

It seems to work for me w/o any major complaints and my singers seem to like it.

Flip (the original a.k.a. Mike)

[MaddMatt]

All:

I think that all the points are valid. While I prefer working with a signup sheet and prefer singing wit KJ's that use a signup sheet, that's me.

Flipper knows that we don't agree on everything but if his system works for him that's all that matters. As long as he is communicating with his customers (which didn't usually happen in my cases of rotation tinkering) then everyone is on the same page and all is well with the world.

I like the signup sheet for all the reasons everyone else stated. But even there people can try to mess with it. I have seen people sign up under false names, use the "he's in the bathroom right now so I'll just sing it for him"excuse, try multiple duets in each rotation and other things to mess it up. As with anything, it takes monitoring. I do like the fact though, that everything is above board and you can see at a glance when you will be up next.

Madd Matt

[shortrounder]

Hate rotation that are not KEEP.

Just got home from singing ,third in rotation.About ten singers there at the start of the rotation.Five new people came in, they got put in rotation before the person who was fourth in rotation. She was now tenth. up to sing. By the next rotation I was moved to sixth in rotation ,(the five who came later were moved up.) By the time for my third song I was now eleventh in rotation. The woman who was Fourth at the start was now twentieth. The othe people were still at the top of the rotation.Fair no,but they will follow the KJ to all of the places he playes at.Do they spend more money ?No... they drink soda pop, and eat befor the get there. But they tip the KJ and
thats where he makes his money.If I did not like these people I would complaine, but its not there fault.

Thank you all who left answers to my coments.

shortrounder

[MaddMatt]

Shortrounder,

We've all been there too, so we know how you feel. There is no easy way to take care of this. The KJ may have just messed up and remembered which 5 came together but forgot where they went.

A list takes care of part of that as you can see where you are in the rotation and whether you want to put in another song. Or if the KJ only allowed one song in at a time, that would do the trick.

It's a tough thing to fix from the side of the table you are on unless you speak up.

Madd Matt

[shortrounder]

Hi Matt.
Thanks for the reply. Fun just to vent sometime. This not a problem that just happen last nigh, but all the time. He even forgot one singer.I did tell the KJ last night how unhappy hr is making alot of people. His answer was that he did not realize what he was doing.I aske him how that was,that as he has a list right in front of him.Thats when he said that,they follow him to all of his gigs so he felt that he owed them more. All of his other gigs are over 30 miles away. Over near where the people live.If they are following him it is to here not there.By the end of the night his list is so messed up, you can hardly fined you name.

shortrounder

[MaddMatt]

See, I find that really interesting.

If he is spreading out his gigd 30 miles apart, he has an excellent opportunity to attract "groupies" every where he goes. The fact that these people followed him 30 miles away is great but he had the opportunity to impress an entirely new crowd!

The favorites won't go that far everytime and he is already shunning the locals. Not good business.

I think, and many of you will probably agree, that if you don't play favorites and run a fair rotation then everyone will be happy. You will get regulars because of the sound, selection and personality. Playing favorites get you short term success but will hurt you in the long run.

Madd Matt

[joe's jams]

This is in reply to your original post (I know this thread has taken a different direction since then, but I had to say this.)

Before I start my reply, I would like to make one thing clear, althought I may me a new member to this forum, I am not new to karaoke or karaoke clubs. I am also not new to being a KJ. I have been one for 10 years. I do sing in my shows. There are times, often at the beginning of shows when people do not come up right away to sing, and I fill in this void by singing, not by DJ'ing. There have also been various times when I have received requests from the audience to sing certain songs. I also sing duets with singers when I am asked. I am not the only KJ who sings in their show. I have been to some very successful karaoke bars where the KJ sang. If the KJ is a very good singer and he/she is not doing it to excess, I do not see where this is bad for business. Other than the above instances, I never butt it to the singers rotation, I never sing more than one song in a row, and I don't allow the audience to sing more than one song in a row.

[kedmison]

I agree with you Joey. I always start the night off with the first song (also lets me know everything is working) and will keep my self in rotation for awhile. My crowd wants me to. Not breaking my arm but I do sing well and have a large varitey of styles. This allows me to pick things up when it comes back to me and everything is slow songs or viceaversa. Once I have a large group going I then back out of the rotation unless someone requests something. And even then I won't do the song until my spot in the rotation comes up again.

Kelly

[joe's jams]

Thanks, Kelly, for clarifying this. I would not want those KJ's that are just starting in the business to get the idea that they can't sing in their show. The only time that this is a really bad idea is if the KJ can't sing. We get quite enough people behind a microphone who can't sing, to add to this list ourselves. The majority of most of my audiences never sing and yet they always show up. They come to be entertained. I do what I can to keep them entertained during the show.

[SteveWalker]

I also start with the first song to check the sound system. I will continue to sing "once per rotation" until the rotation is up to about 6-8, then I back off unless I get a request. However, the KJ should accomodate singers who need a mate for duets.

Steve

[danny_g]

in total agreement with steve on the once per rotation and bowing out when you have enough singers to carry the show. that is how I do it. I f after I get enough singers to allow me to bow out I will only sing if a singer needs a mate on a duet. the only diet I won't do is the dreaded paradise by the dashborad light since I have the All Hits version and cannot pull off the baseball portion of the song.

[SteveWalker]

danny_g,

Good to hear from you again. We did lots of Johnny Cash tributes Friday night. I need some blow-up guitars and horns and lights to brighten up my show. I'm thinking about starting a band again cause the karaoke hours just seem forever these days.

Steve

[MaddMatt]

All:

Thanks for keeping the thread going. I always find other people's insights to be informative and educatiional.

I don't disagree that you should sing a song to get things going. Where I have a problem is when the KJ is in the normal rotation of 6 singers or more. Why? Because many people come to K to get their moment in the spotlight, you are there to make that moment happen. The better job a KJ does at making that moment happen (lights, sound etc), the more popular they will be. It's like the DJ who talks too much, just get back to the music! Go out on your night off and sing a little to get it out of your system if you need to.

There is an easy answer to those people who request you to sing a solo, "sorry, I can't. Why don't you try it?"

As for duets, I have no problem with that but again I would look to another patron of the establishment to bring up first.

again, this is just a perspective from someone interested in Karaoke, NOT a full tim KJ. Heck I might be one of your customers sending you a wakeup call!

Madd Matt

[SteveWalker]

MaddMatt, Thanks for the info but I think you should become a professional singer.

Steve

[MaddMatt]

Steve:

That is exactly what I am thinking when I see the KJ singing. If you want to sing every night, join a band or just hire yourself out as a one man show and sing all night.

The bars bring you in so that people will come and spend money while being entertained. My point has always been that before you assume you know what the patrons want, you should check. Just because one person asks you to sing every night, doesn't mean everyone wants you to.

I have talked to many regulars at establishments all over the country and my initial "interesting perspective" was the feedback I was given. I was just sharing, no one has to heed the advice.... but then don't blame me if your competition does.

DJ's shouldn't try to tell jokes all night and KJ's should let the people sing

Madd Matt