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  #61  
Old January 29th, 2010, 02:04 AM
Musicman51 Musicman51 is offline
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Sorry for the double post. But i recieved these two links in an email sent to me by a kj buddy of mine, while reading my emails this evening. I looked them up on craigs list and they appear legit. Perhaps we really shouldn't worry so much about the pirates taking our jobs, perhaps we should worry about the KIAA cutting our throat, and their members and inductees scarfing them up suppose? this first link of this dude rubbing it into everyones face, including the KIAA, is just a real jerk, 80 to 90% of all kj's are not legal according to this dude. Now one kj's are pitting themselfs against eachother. Glad i fit into the small 10% who is legal....But apparently the Sleps or their buddies have things so stired up in virginny, that jobs are starting to be at a premium. Apparently according to nightlife publications, clubs carrying karaoke entertainment have dropped dramatically. And as i predicted. These guys are doing more harm then good with this lawsuit stuff. Sure it's great to stop the pirates fine dandy. But at what cost? If you are a good KJ, with a good personality, a sufficent library, a great hoster setup and decent sound gear. No pirate is going to get your job, unless you're a poor host to begin with. But these self imposed castopo tactics by the slep clan, are taking casulties already. And is going to impact kj's, software manu's, clubs, livelihood, sales, and profits..mark my words.

http://richmond.craigslist.org/evs/1567150507.html

and this second one, just seems to be a moron period.

http://richmond.craigslist.org/evs/1569205332.html

Last edited by Musicman51; January 29th, 2010 at 02:09 AM. Reason: spellin misstakees
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  #62  
Old January 29th, 2010, 01:45 PM
RandyMcCharles RandyMcCharles is offline
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someone gave me a dowloaded / copied disc to import as a singers disc, and it didnt do nothing, all i got was a little avatar
They obviously didn't use hoster/microstudio to import the download and create the CDG. If someone wants to take a downloaded song to a bar they had better learn how to do it correctly.

I am now considering buying a download, burning it to CDG with microstudio and taking it and my purchase receipt to various karaoke clubs to see if the KJ will let me play it. (I already know many who won't). The real goal will be to write down reasons from the KJs why they will/won't let me use it. It will take a while to hit a good number of clubs, but I'll provide a report here when I'm done.
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  #63  
Old January 29th, 2010, 01:46 PM
ddouglass ddouglass is offline
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Originally Posted by Musicman51 View Post
Sorry for the double post. But i received these two links in an email sent to me by a kj buddy of mine, while reading my emails this evening. I looked them up on craigs list and they appear legit. Perhaps we really shouldn't worry so much about the pirates taking our jobs, perhaps we should worry about the KIAA cutting our throat, and their members and inductees scarfing them up suppose? this first link of this dude rubbing it into everyones face, including the KIAA, is just a real jerk, 80 to 90% of all kj's are not legal according to this dude. Now one kj's are pitting themselves against each other. Glad i fit into the small 10% who is legal....But apparently the Sleps or their buddies have things so stired up in virginny, that jobs are starting to be at a premium. Apparently according to nightlife publications, clubs carrying karaoke entertainment have dropped dramatically. And as i predicted. These guys are doing more harm then good with this lawsuit stuff. Sure it's great to stop the pirates fine dandy. But at what cost? If you are a good KJ, with a good personality, a sufficent library, a great Hoster setup and decent sound gear. No pirate is going to get your job, unless you're a poor host to begin with. But these self imposed Gestapo tactics by the slep clan, are taking casulties already. And is going to impact kj's, software manu's, clubs, livelihood, sales, and profits..mark my words.

http://richmond.craigslist.org/evs/1567150507.html

and this second one, just seems to be a moron period.

http://richmond.craigslist.org/evs/1569205332.html
George,
That first one sounds like he is ticked off because he is a member of the KIAA and still got tagged with the lawsuit by SC. What is puzzling is that as a member of KIAA he has already been audited which is part of their membership requirements and that SC is refusing to audit him again wanting him to pay the $6500 settlement and admitting guilt. This is definitely harassment by SC.
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  #64  
Old January 29th, 2010, 02:33 PM
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Roy Dennis Roy Dennis is offline
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George,
That first one sounds like he is ticked off because he is a member of the KIAA and still got tagged with the lawsuit by SC. What is puzzling is that as a member of KIAA he has already been audited which is part of their membership requirements and that SC is refusing to audit him again wanting him to pay the $6500 settlement and admitting guilt. This is definitely harassment by SC.
What is to stop someone who has already been audited by KIAA from then useing another hard drive with illegal music for their show?

Roy.
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  #65  
Old January 29th, 2010, 03:12 PM
ddouglass ddouglass is offline
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What is to stop someone who has already been audited by KIAA from then useing another hard drive with illegal music for their show?

Roy.
I don't think they are looking at it that way, but I get the feeling they are attacking anyone using a computer rather than playing directly from the original CDs. In other words they are ignoring the right of us to make one copy of the material. I really think this is going to backfire on them and Sound Choice will be out of business very soon. Every karaoke forum I know of is calling for a boycott of Sound Choice.
I love their claim that they have only sold 750 copies of their latest release (when was that?) and there are 30,000 copies of it in use (do they put a tracker on the cd???). The question is where are they getting this figure?
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  #66  
Old January 29th, 2010, 03:19 PM
Musicman51 Musicman51 is offline
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Signs that your Karaoke person is illegal; has more than 20,000 songs, will work for less than the national average of $200 a night on a weekday or $250 for a weekend night.
This guy is getting $200 on a monday or tuesday night at the local bowling alley maybe? And he can tap the local elks lodge for $250 smackeroo's for the boiled cabbage dinner with karaoke to follow? Jimmy, sally...kids help mommy and daddy load the desoto, we're moving to ole verginny...swimming pools..karaoke stars...hurry young'ens
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  #67  
Old January 29th, 2010, 04:37 PM
ddouglass ddouglass is offline
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The area you are in makes a difference. Since I live in a rural area and play at a VFW (of which I am Life Member and know the finances of the post) then I get $150 on a Friday night and $175 for Saturday night (open later). The guy down the road is working just for tips because the club just opened and they don't have the funds to pay for entertainment and the other two clubs in the area don't have karaoke (too small or to many fights).
Those down the road in the Houston metro area are making more than that because the money is there.
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  #68  
Old February 1st, 2010, 05:31 PM
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We respect Sound Choice as one of the best producers. We hope they are only going after true bootleggers who don't deserve to steal your shows. If you know of a KJ making money who bought a hard drive on EBay for $400 with 35,000+ songs or who bought a hard drive copy from anywhere else (it is illegal) or who swap songs with friends or other KJs, or who downloads CDG songs from MIRC servers, please turn them in to Sound Choice. We need to clean up the industry.

Here are the facts that we are aware of:

1. About six years ago Sound Choice went after a KJ in the Michigan(?) area under copyright law, who refused to settle out of court. The case went to court and the judge threw Sound Choice out, based on their claims. The KJ was cleared.

2. Sound Choice has never taken anyone to court since, to our knowledge and research.

3. They are blackmailing KJs into paying them $6500. If you sign anything as a settlement out of court you are bound under contract law to obey whatever they have you sign. Check with your own lawyer but we recommend that you never sign any contract preventing you from doing anything with karaoke.

4. If you have legally purchased all of the songs you have on your hard drive, to the best of our knowledge and research, YOU ARE LEGAL. Tell Sound Choice you'll see them in court.

5. If you have any illegal songs you did not pay for DELETE THEM NOW. If you are found with illegal songs, pray. That's your only hope.

6. Twice before MTU has paid IPJustice.org to research all current law for your rights as KJs/users of CDG legally purchased songs. Please click here to read their report .
Pay special attention to "format shifting" from one media to another. It happens world-wide every day.
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  #69  
Old February 6th, 2010, 12:45 AM
Musicman51 Musicman51 is offline
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I found this forum posting, from the anoited one Kurt Slep. Thought i'd pass it along. You make up your own mind.

 



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If I had the time, I would try to answer everyone point by point, but let me say this: For those who are predominantly "legal" (i.e., they have an original legally purchased Sound Choice disc to support each and every copy that they have of a song file on a hard drive or CAVS system) we are not going to pursue a lawsuit against you if you have the discs BEFORE we investigate and file suit. We are not being hardnosed or unfair. If you are "legal", we recognize that there might be a disc or two missing over the years and you shouldn't have any concerns. Come on - I hope that no one really believes that we would waste our time pursuing someone in that situation!

Those that settle quickly are only being charged what would be a little over full retail for the library of discs that we ship you - although we could be much more punitive. You also have a permanent physical "record" (the CDG) in case the music publishers ever decide to come seeking retribution against the KJ community. (Remember the on-going RIAA lawsuits for huge amounts - and those settlements have been against HOME USERS, not even commercial users like KJ hosts). If we wanted to go to court, the MINIMUM we could ask for would be $200,000 and the maximum could be $4,000,000. So why would any KJ be so stupid/stubborn to want to go to court to learn they have no defense and pay tens of thousands more than it would take to get themselves legal?

Basically we want to be paid and WE SHOULD BE PAID for the music that many KJs have been using for years to earn a living or for pocket change or whatever. If you disagree with this statement, then you shouldn't mind if I come to your house and steal your car or something else you own. If you have a great many discs already, but maybe slid to the "dark side" in cloning a rig or "filling out" your library with stolen, traded songs, etc. we will take that into account. But whatever the amount is, just remember it is a "pittance" compared to what it could be. For those who are named in a suit and wait to respond until they are served (we try to give at least a 20 day response time via an advance letter after you have been named), their cost will go up because our costs to deal with the matter goes up. The smarter KJs (and yes, we are running across more and more of them) are buying a library of our discs BEFORE they even get investigated. And that's OK with us. They save money and we save a hassle. Sounds like a win-win.

For those who chose to buy before we "catch you" the library of discs on hand is being sold for about $0.75 per song. We are working on relicensing about 7500 songs in our catalog and releasing them in 320kbps MP3+G format, so that you don't even have to go to the trouble of format conversion. We still can't legally grant you the right to put them on a computer because our licenses do not specifically state we have that right. But since publishers know that our CDGs are being used in a commercial setting (and authorize them for that use), it is our opinion that as long as you have a 1:1 ratio of disc to song file, the US publishers aren't going to worry about the format shift problem. (In Australia and the UK they DO have a format shift license that allows this and it costs about $400 a year and covers your commercial music and karaoke discs).

As for suing venues, we are fully within our rights to do so if they continue to benefit from a host running an illegal system. It's called CONTRIBUTORY INFRINGEMENT. And we are pursuing this approach AT THE INSISTENCE of and for the benefit of many of our long time karaoke hosts who have bought our products and who have been put out of business or suffered financially from competition from thieves who have had the unfair advantage of not having any investment in their music. As more thieves lose their gigs because a bar doesn't want to be at risk and the bars hire legal KJs, those who are legal will thank Sound Choice and the KIAA more and more because they can get more gigs at a higher price. If you are a thief (we are going to move away from the glamorized term of "pirate") you will probably cuss Sound Choice and the KIAA more and more as you find your opportunities limited.

For those who are adamant that Sound Choice is the “bad guy” in the on-going scenario of lawsuits, I would be hard pressed to even understand your position if you think we are not entitled to being paid. You might not like our “collection methods”, but there is a perfectly legal solution if you are worried about a lawsuit and how you would defend or respond. Avoid the suit altogether - be PROACTIVE – BUY BEFORE YOU “FRY”. No one is stopping you from doing what you can and should legally have been doing all along – buying our products. We are even doing some limited financing and are trying to arrange credit sources prior to the launch of our new products. Stay tuned for all that.

Kurt Slep
CEO Sound Choice

PS. I won’t be monitoring the responses to my post here. I will be busy trying to get our new product out to market, so that we can have a better solution for our KJ customers.
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  #70  
Old February 6th, 2010, 02:13 AM
ddouglass ddouglass is offline
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My only comment is they are not doing any checking before filing and they do not let you buy the ones that you may have that are illegal but instead require that you buy there entire library which I have no need for at $6500.00. Additionally you have to sign a contract with them stating you are guilty. As Admin said this is a bad idea.
Additionally when they file against the establishments that these people are playing at those establishments and others who see this going on no longer want to have karaoke at all. So how is that helping us???? And what kind of settlement are they offering those establishments?
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  #71  
Old February 6th, 2010, 09:24 AM
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i think i understand their position, if you're a kj and have 5 people working for you in diff. venues, then in my opinion you should have, like they said you have to have all the orig. disc for every comp. that's being used in those venues, having a comp/laptop , copied disc /hhd for back-ups shouldnt be considered illegal., unless like i said it's being used to do another venue.
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  #72  
Old February 8th, 2010, 07:20 PM
Musicman51 Musicman51 is offline
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Billy, i completly agree with you, and it doesn't matter if it's 2, 3, 5, or if his is the only rig he has going. I actually can sympathise with Sound Choice with the pirating thing. But thats where my sympathy ends. In the entertainment business. And it is a business, whether you do it as a hobby part time like myself, or you're going 7 nights aweek. If you're a software manufacture, or a club, bar, disc manu, whatever. Perception, and the impression you make upon others, is 99.99999% of the game. If you run a great show, have first class gear, a library to die for. And you treat others with disrespect, and not give them a fair shake. You cut your own throat. This is exactly what Sound Choice has done here. I said it before, and i'll say it again. There is a right and a wrong way to go about doing things. The feeling of the majority of KJ's i've spoken with, say they are done with sound choice. And my two closest kj friends, run an all disc show. And they say they are also done with the slep castopo. The KIAA have the first 3 letters correct {KIA} Karaoke Industry Alliance of ....and i don't need to tell you what many in the karaoke community say that last {A} actually stands for.....
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  #73  
Old February 8th, 2010, 08:30 PM
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RIKKI TIKKI RIKKI TIKKI is offline
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IMHO Sound Choice is within their legal rights, to pursue the illegal bootleggers/pirates that have evaded paying for the rights to use the SC karaoke music... They obviously are testing the water, as how to go about it, and will ultimately ruffle a few feathers, using the legal system to corral the crooks, and allow the legitimate KJ's to do business as usual. If you are a working KJ like myself and most other KJ's that are reading, and following the test cases of Phoenix, Az. and now Virginia... then you are either worried, or not, if you are even slightly illegal, then you can still be prosecuted, so if it's a few Sound Choice, discs, or songs that you are worried about, please get them replaced with legit originals, or same songs produced by other manufacturers to fill out your libraries.

I have a preponderance of Sound Choice cdg's in my collection/library, and find them to be close to the top of the list of manufacturers when it comes to producing a very good rendition of the original artists that they try to emulate for the Karaoke officianados, whether you are KJ's that make a living using the cdg's, or background music, hobbyists, etc. The quality is there... they paid a lot of money for the licensing rights, and still more in the production costs, for studio time, musicians, duplicating and recording gear, etc.

When somebody bootleggs your rights to make a profit from your business endeavor by pirating your licensed property, and shares it illegally, or make copies and then in turn sells it for profit, you would not sit still and take it either... they are going to recoup some of their lost profits by legal action against those that are grossly infringing, or blatently portraying an illegitimate operation that is profiting from the fruits of their labor, and skirting the licensing rights that Sound Choice paid to use, and in turn, profit from...

Boycotting Sound Choice will only hurt those that are illegal, and worried! Their business (SC), will return when the playing field is leveled, and most of the pirating is eliminated, and the illegal downloaded files can be stopped, so that the company can profit from legal licensing of down loads, and we can move on to the next controversy... and how to improve Hoster, for the future of Karaoke!
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  #74  
Old February 8th, 2010, 09:12 PM
muzicman144 muzicman144 is offline
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Boycotting Sound Choice will only hurt those that are illegal, and worried! Their business (SC), will return when the playing field is leveled, and most of the pirating is eliminated, and the illegal downloaded files can be stopped, so that the company can profit from legal licensing of down loads, and we can move on to the next controversy... and how to improve Hoster, for the future of Karaoke!
Illegal has always been one step ahead of legal. I don't expect things to change in my lifetime
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Last edited by ddouglass; February 8th, 2010 at 10:44 PM.
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  #75  
Old February 8th, 2010, 10:11 PM
Musicman51 Musicman51 is offline
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Wink

As i stated, preception is 99.99999% % of the game.

Quote:
IMHO Sound Choice is within their legal rights, to pursue the illegal bootleggers/pirates that have evaded paying for the rights to use the SC karaoke music...
I have read every single posting on this forum on this matter, and i haven't read anything that says sound choice doesn't have a right to pursue their property. No disagreement there. Again..preception.

Quote:
They obviously are testing the water, as how to go about it, and will ultimately ruffle a few feathers, using the legal system to corral the crooks, and allow the legitimate KJ's to do business as usual.
Simply not true. Many innocent individuals have been faulsly accused, a few have had their suits dropped. Not one, not one single apology to these individuals by the sleps. Right now, if i were in virginia, and i owned a bar, and a kj asked me to start up karaoke, what do you think i would say to him? Already there is a 20% drop in available karaoke night spots in virginia already. have legitimate kj's doing business as usual? where? Sir, you are naive.

Quote:
If you are a working KJ like myself and most other KJ's that are reading, and following the test cases of Phoenix, Az. and now Virginia... then you are either worried, or not,
NOT....and heres a news flash for ya. Neither are the majority of crooks. Concerned? of course. Not about the legality issue. But of the manner sound choice is using, costing a loss of jobs, and ruining the reputation of legal kj's. Sound choice does not want a single case to go to trial. They are in this for the money, and they have demostrated, they don't care who gets injustly accused. It is cheaper for an accused legal kj to settle, then to pursue his innocents, and reputation. Sound choice is counting on this.

Quote:
I have a preponderance of Sound Choice cdg's in my collection/library, {that statement makes no sense what soever}and find them to be close to the top of the list of manufacturers when it comes to producing a very good rendition of the original artists that they try to emulate for the Karaoke officianados, whether you are KJ's that make a living using the cdg's, or background music, hobbyists, etc. The quality is there... they paid a lot of money for the licensing rights, and still more in the production costs, for studio time, musicians, duplicating and recording gear, etc
I personally don't own that many sound choice disc. I will say they are actually no better then chartbuster, music maestro or pocket songs. They do the job. However, sound choice does not pay anymore for rights to a song, studio time, duplicating, recording gear, musicians then chartbuster, or any of the other top karaoke manus. And the other CDG manufactures have something sound choice no longer has now. Thats class, and respect of the karaoke community. This is of their own choosing...sadly

This is sounding more like a KIA {A} form letter the more i read it and reply to this.

Quote:
When somebody bootleggs your rights to make a profit from your business endeavor by pirating your licensed property, and shares it illegally, or make copies and then in turn sells it for profit, you would not sit still and take it either...
No disagreement here...Show me a posting on this forum, where someone suggest sound choice sit still for this? please. It's not the pursuit the legit kj's object to..it's the method, and the damage caused by this method. The loss of clubs, the loss of reputation, the bad name this is giving the karaoke industry as a whole. I do this as a hobby. And i'll tell ya...the ripple effect is already starting where i'm at. I predect, clubs will be going to DJ's, single accoustic guitar acts, small combos' piano singalongs, comedy acts, pool tables, video games. And...we have the shoddy messy tactics of the sleps to blame.
Don't come crying to me rikkie.

Quote:
they are going to recoup some of their lost profits by legal action against those that are grossly infringing, or blatently portraying an illegitimate operation that is profiting from the fruits of their labor, and skirting the licensing rights that Sound Choice paid to use, and in turn, profit from...
It's not legal action actually..it's the threat of a legal action. Big difference there. If you think for one minute sound choice is going recoup any substatial lost profits by taking a few kj's and bars to court, and making them settle for 6 grand, then you arenaive. Sound choice is trying to make examples of these poor slobs, and nothing more. And...don't be surprised, when someone holds sound choice to task, and wins... KJ's don't have deep pockets, but the bar owners do...and i can hardly wait. Sound choice stepped on the wrong toes there. The club owners hold the purse strings for the entire karaoke industry..hang on for the ride of your life.

Quote:
Boycotting Sound Choice will only hurt those that are illegal, and worried! Their business (SC), will return when the playing field is leveled, and most of the pirating is eliminated, and the illegal downloaded files can be stopped, so that the company can profit from legal licensing of down loads, and we can move on to the next controversy... and how to improve Hoster, for the future of Karaoke!
Wrong, a boycott of sound choice will also hurt the retailers who legally sell sound choice disc, also any future legal download sites. Also legit kj's. I am a legal operating kj. If there were a boycot of sound choice. I would out of respect for my fellow kj's also not purchase or even play any sound choice disc. And if you think i'm a minority, again...you are naive. I also predict, because of the actions of sound choice, the KIA{A}, the slep costopo, that the download part of sound choice, although i wish their endevour a complete success. Will Ultimatly be unprofitable. Kj's..myself included, by all this confusion alone...will not feel safe downloading anything. Right now, i say over 80% of ALL kj's have absolutly no idea what is a legal download site, or if there actually are any. How the sleps will over come all this mass confusion they have started, is anyone's guess. But i betcha, it will show in profits. Perhaps the slep clan can take all the download sites out there to court to? think so? As i read the majority of forums, and have KJ & dj friends in many states, and hear even way up here. Sound choice is digging their own grave.
Again......remember that perception thing i mentioned earlier? Confusion, rumors, misinformation, threats of law suits, club owners dropping karaoke. It's happening as i type. yep..... {shakes his head and sighs}

Last edited by ddouglass; February 8th, 2010 at 10:45 PM.
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  #76  
Old February 8th, 2010, 10:13 PM
Musicman51 Musicman51 is offline
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pooo...i was going to bring up the sound choice eagles cdg that the sleps released without fully having the rights secured....oh well...yep that perception thing again...
P.S. I'm smiling as i'm typing....
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  #77  
Old February 9th, 2010, 05:20 AM
Lonman Lonman is offline
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The Eagles disc they have fully admitted in the past they released before they had the ok - they assumed they would get it. When they were told no, they immediately pulled it from the market.
I don't see where anyone that actually has a disc to correspond with everyting on each computer would have a problem with the way they are doing this. I have each & every disc for my computer with me at each show (not that anyone else would), buy every disc to date for almost 20 years. I know several computer operators that have not one disc to back up their system, or have sold their discs once they uploaded. These are the operators that need to worry - if you don't have a disc to back up your library, then chances are you are going to be nailed when they come around to your area. According to Kurt (in personal conversations) there is only one 'legal' place to download any SC music (at this time) and that is from Stingray - where they sold/partnered their music library to - and these downloads are not legal in commercial settings. So even the ones that 'bought' their downloads could run into trouble down the line.
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  #78  
Old February 9th, 2010, 10:10 AM
Musicman51 Musicman51 is offline
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again..old news and no one disagrees with you. But the way they are doing this is not right..plain and simple. Again, as far as the downloading thing goes, mass confusion, and there are other sites that are legal. Chartbuster says they are, and priddis music {music only} claim they are. So your info is again not entirely correct. And a news flash. Not everyone that disagrees with the way the slep clan is doing this is illegal. As i stated i know of disc kj's that wouldn't purchase another sound choice product if it was pressed in gold.
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  #79  
Old February 9th, 2010, 12:26 PM
ddouglass ddouglass is offline
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George, Stellar Music is also legal as the ones the have for download are all their own creations. However theirs are only in video format and not in MP3+G.
Anyway from what I have researched is that they have brought these lawsuits against people using computers. My guess is that if someone walked in and you are using disks, they assumed you were legal. But if you are using a computer, they didn't ask to see your disks, and just assumed you were guilty.
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  #80  
Old February 9th, 2010, 01:14 PM
RandyMcCharles RandyMcCharles is offline
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Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: Calgary
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Wow. This discussion is really heating up. It looks like most but not all of us agree that we don't like KIAA's methods and even question what their goals are. But we all do agree that there is a piracy problem that makes it difficult for manufacturers and legit KJs alike to stay in business. So how about some ideas of what Sound Choice could be doing instead to address this problem?
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