Ascap & Bmi

[George]

Not only are you right there, CSTALEY, but there's also the issue of assuming legal liability by acting as an advisor.

Not the way to go.

George

[frarob]

The first thing I learned in Business Law is "Ignorance is not a defense." Information is King.

[gotrich]

ok I understand the use of BMI, ASCAP etc... But you mention that even purchased, downloaded music, is not legal...well according to BMI DJing is illegal cause you can not use a CD bought in a store. So where do we draw the line?

[frarob]

Directly from BMI's website:
Q: Is a tape or CD my personal property to play where and when I like?

A: No. Although, most people buy tapes and CDs thinking they are now their property, there is a distinction in the law between owning a copy of the CD and owning the songs on the CD. There is also a difference between a private performance of copyrighted music and a public performance. Most people recognize that purchasing a CD doesn't give them the right to make copies of it to give or sell to others. The record company and music publishers retain those rights. Similarly, the music on the CDs and tapes still belongs to the songwriter, composer or music publisher of the work. When you buy a tape or CD, the purchase price covers only your private listening use, similar to the "home" use of "home" videos. Once you decide to play these tapes or CDs in your restaurant or nightclub it becomes a public performance. Songwriters, composers, and music publishers have the exclusive right of public performance of their musical works under the U.S. copyright law. Therefore, any public performance, whether live or recorded, requires permission from the copyright owner - or BMI - if it is BMI-affiliated music. With a BMI Music License, you can publicly perform all BMI-affiliated music.

This, in my mind, applies to DJ/KJ, provided it is legally acquired (purchased) content.

[PastMember]

Gotrich:

But you mention that even purchased, downloaded music, is not legal...well according to BMI DJing is illegal cause you can not use a CD bought in a store. So where do we draw the line?

The line gets drawn wherever you're PLAYING the music. Keep in mind that it's not the STORE you bought it from or even HOW you got it or WHAT media it's on. The key is WHERE YOU'RE PLAYING IT (when it comes to performance licensing).

Take your cd boom-box (or computer with speakers) and play it in the park and it's in violation because the park is not "licensed for public performance" and it is still a "public place." Walk across the street to your local (ascap licensed) bar with it still playing and as soon as you hit the property line, viola! It's legal again.... and it still doesn't matter if you're playing a cd, record, cassette, computer or crank-me-up-grandma-gramaphone.

If the cd you purchased in the store has printed on it: "Not for public performance".... guess what.... you CAN play that in a "licensed" club.

[bdayton]

Originally Posted by C. Staley

Club owners/operators are businesspeople and as such, should be able to manage their OWN businesses.

I'm not trying to sound harsh here, but it's a fact of life that you should know all the facets of the business that you're in and not ignore them waiting for someone else (like a KJ) to tell you about the licenses you should ALREADY have.

I am a business owner, (Karaoke Business), And as such, I should know all the facets of the business that I am in ...... Okay, So just where do I find the "Real Truth" about what is and is not legal or illegal?

I can't afford a lawyer, (I do karaoke you know ), So where do I go to find the real "Quotable" truth?

[frarob]

Your best resources are the website for the major administration societies - ASCAP, BMI, and SESAC. If you are booked to perform in a commercial establishment such as a nightclub/bar, the club should have the proper public performance licenses in place. It is the establishment's responsibility, not the DJ, KJ, or band. There have been some statements posted that apply the "letter of the law" to a sublime end, such as playing a boom box in the park or on the beach without a license is a violation. By strict, literal interpretation, it is: so too is the slammed import hot rod with the booming "thump thump" stereo in the lane next to me at a traffic light that I can hear with my windows up and the news on the radio. As far as your library, if it is a commercially released disc, you have no problem - see what I cut from the BMI website in a previous post. If it's a burned disc, the situation is a bit more grey in that you would need to prove that you owned a commercial copy and burned the disc as a backup/safety. Downloaded tracks are more difficult to establish chain of ownership, which is really the bottom line: did you buy the track in either a physical form or through download, or was it "borrowed", meaning most likely burned at no cost and therefore no royalty paid to the songwriter or the studio that owns the accompanyment track. Even if you burn safeties of your catalog, I would suggest that the burned discs be the archive copy and the commercial discs be the performance discs to avoid that potential frustration.

[George]

If you go to any of the industry organization websites: SOUND CHOICE, CHARTBUSTER, BMI, ASCAP, etc, one is obviously going to get their biased slant. That does not say it's not prudent to see how these guys feel about things. They do wheel and deal in the industry.

From what I've observed over the years, the info on these forums posted by ADMIN are probably as well advised as one will find, short of going to the U.S. Copywrite office website and trying to decipher the legalese for one's self, or consulting a good copywrite attorney.

That's just my opinion, but I feel that way because ADMIN usually makes reference to having talked to an attorney, or someone in the Copywrite Office, or some well informed source whenever he does post such information.

Consequently, I feel ADMIN'S posts on the subject have some research behind them. Most of the time they deal with subjects relating to copywrite laws from the KJ perspective.

Like I said, an opinion only.

George

No confrontation intended. We were writing at the same time

[bdayton]

Originally Posted by frarob

Your best resources are the website for the major administration societies - ASCAP, BMI, and SESAC.

Most such questions can easily be answered by considering a simple common sense question. "Did I pay money for this?" If the answer is "no" than it's probably illegal. If the answer if "yes", then it depends upon "who" you gave your money to.

I have already been to ASCAP and BMI. Neither gave me the kinds of information that I was looking for. In fact, after visiting those sites, I was left with more questions than I started with. (Legalese is not my prefered language). Let me give you an example....

A singer brings in his/her own burned karaoke CD and askes me to play it. (S)he tells me that (S)he owns the original. I am not an agent for the Karaoke companies nor do I want to be one. Still, I have no reason to doubt his/her claim so I play the song......

If (S)he lied and the song was an illegal copy, (and I get caught), who get's to be Bruce's next "squeeze" in the slammer? (The owner of the bar? The Singer that brough in the disk? ..... (Gulp!.. Me! ) And where can a "Hold up in court" but still writen in the Kings english, copy of this information be found?

(The information I found at ASCAP and BMI was, from my perspective, almost completly incomprehensible.

[nreel]

Bdayton,

Sorry to hear that you cannot get a GIG because, in your area, other KJs are able to undercut you, I'm sure, because they have illegal music.

How else can any KJ stay ahead and charge so little?

But, with respect to the Karaoke Kops, you stand a better chance of staving off these people by using Computer driven Songs verses Discs.

It is very easy for someone to observe that a KJ is using copied physical discs, which could invite an investigation.

However, there are no discs when using a computer. So, if any A--Hole Karaoke Kop comes around investigating, they would be hard pressed to bring formal charges when there is no first-hand probable cause...as compared to the aforementioned DISC scenario.


So, if using a Computer, I say bring it on because now the ball is in your court. Any hint of a LAWSUIT brings a COUNTER LAWSUIT for deformation of character...$1,000,000 minimum. Personally, I can't wait for one of these A--holes to show up with a summons! It will be like winning the Lottery!!

I mean think about it. Hoster uses Book IDs which, if used in your SongBooks, do not list actual disc numbers (assuming you do not use that Hoster SongBook feature) for them to reference as with conventional ways of Printing SongBooks...ie Sc7501-01. Sc7501-01 tells a Karaoke Kop exactly what you need to produce in a Court. Book ID 1001 doesn't tell them Sh_t.

How stupid are they going to look in Court when they are telling you to produce a particular song from SoundChoice. We all know that SoundChoice duplicates many of their songs on many discs. Even if one of your songs was bootlegged, odds are, with SoundChoice, you can produce a disc that has that song on it.

SoundChoice thought that they would screw the public by duplicating songs on different discs but, turns out; they are their own worst enemy in that respect. If all discs were unique, then one would have to have that disc to produce a certain song, which some are, but who knows what you will be asked to produce. And, if you are able to produce what the Karaoke Kop is Questioning, in Court of course, I wouldn't arbitrarily produce anything without a Court Order, BOOM BABY, COUNTER LAWSUIT WON !! Keep those Bast--ds at bay for a while...wouldn't it? And, I would sue et al, meaning the actual person that brought the suit AS WELL...put his as_ in a sling, after all, BMI, ASCAP, and SESAC are NOT Government entities and, therefore, their employees are NOT immune from being SUED!

Freedom to all lawful KJs !

[gotrich]

Like I stated in my previous post i called the lady who claimed to be head of the office. That is what she told me. There is nothing for a DJ or KJ although she said they COULD come after the ESTABLISHMENT and us they have never gone after a regular DJ because they only offer licenses to establishments.

The only thing you need to do that i can gather is OBTAIN your music leagally and Pay your taxes on your gigs.

Which i must say is not so bad if this is a supplemental income. I found that in my state of indiana you can write off your equiptment cost, supplies (paper pens etc.) and milage to and from shows and if you make a trip to a store FOR BUSINESS ONLY that mileage too. And you only have to show a profit 3 of evey 5 years. Of then you normally only end up paying for Social Security tax about 12% of income.

To me it only makes scense to be legal!

Just my $.02

[George]

You're right on Gotrich.

A spot where a lot of the kj's drop the ball is in the area of business expense tax deductions. They use the pc for everything else in the world, but claim 100% deduction on it. You're only allowed to expense or depreciate an item used in business to the extent of the percentage of time that item is used for business.

So the guy that does two four hour shows a week and spends fourty hours a week playing games, surfing, and a host of other non-business related activities should legally expense or depreciate only 20% of the cost of the pc or any replacement hardware.

The spooky part of this is that they are subject to an audit at any time, and are exposed to getting caught.

Much better to have a show dedicated pc that is used for nothing else and has no show related software on it,and gets used for nothing else.

Another benefit of that would be a much cleaner, trouble free running show pc.

George

[George]

Originally Posted by George

Much better to have a show dedicated pc that is used for nothing else and has no show related software on it,and gets used for nothing else.

...has no non show related.....

That's what I meant to say

George

[gotrich]

That I do! I have everything singled out. Each guy has their own set of equiptment too!

I am tring to be the biggest, and best DJ/KJ in NW Indiana..I am just now getting my socks off befor ei jump in the pool! LOL

But my first thing was what is legal and what is not. That is why I called BMI ASCAP, And the RIAA many times before I get going!

I even had to call excise becasue one of my DJ's is under 18!

[frarob]

ASCAP has launched a campaign regarding public performance licenses. 24 charges in 15 states. Full details at the link below.



http://www.mi2n.com/press.php3?press_nb=76023