What do you do about "BAD" regulars?

[SteveWalker]

Ok....until the next bell......have a great weekend!

[George]

Thanks Kelly. I read it that way, as it was clearly put. Anyhow, hope all concerned have a good weekend, (you too Steve)

Take care,

George

[DennisH]

Originally posted by kedmison
Steve,

I understand now why you and George seem to get into it from time to time. You seem to read these post from a different angle.


Kelly

Sorry kedmison... I assumed this was meant to be directed at George as well...
I didn't mean to drag you into anything, and I've obviously misunderstood the above quote.
I will take that chill pill, and from now on... I'll try not to reply to what people type, as they obviously mean something entirely different.

[Lauraine Graham- with the Lord]

What an exciting post, I just have to put in my shilling's worth.

I agree with all the comments, especially

1. Thank God for the regulars. These people (we) are a useful commodity to a KJ in persuading a booker towards karaoke (or a disco) because (s)he can virtually guarantee patronage. Also, assuming they are behaving acceptably, provide a friendly and supportive core to the audience.

2. Karaoke shows are patronised by amateurs. It must be remembered that most participants of a karaoke have no access to musicians, and this is their only means of performing in front of an audience. And because they have no experience of a professional show they will have absolutely no idea about repertoire balance. They just want to sing their favourite songs. Thank goodness the days are long-gone when I have to sing songs I don't like just because they are popular and it was my job to give the public what they wanted.

3. Polite, helpful, supportive, but firm. It is not the KJ’s place to police a venue, but in the interests of everyone unacceptable behaviour MUST be dealt with. A quiet word in the offender’s ear should be tried first. If this fails then Management might have to be involved. Often the offender is unaware of the problem being created; a private word, sensitively spoken, can often work (softly softly catchee monkey) but not always, I’m sorry to say. As an ex-professional entertainer myself I am fully aware of the difficulties involved where delicate egos and booze are closely associated.

I understand that most, if not all KJs went into the business because it is a whole lot more fun than being a clerk or a street cleansing operative. Pardon me if I upset anyone (that is not my intention) but where is it written that you have an inalienable right to enjoy the songs your patrons sing? The important factor is the enjoyment your patrons experience. If you also enjoy their performance, that is a bonus. I cannot think of a single occupation that does not have a minus element, and KJs must accept the good with the bad, just like everybody else. Hearing the same song sung more than several times in one evening must be a bore, but hey, that's life.

Regarding "old farts" not listening to new music, surely that's their choice. There are some, me among them, who cannot abide a lot of recent chart music. My radio is permanently tuned to Classic FM, and they don't play much pop (well actually they don't play any, it's a classical music station). I am, however, always ready to listen to a new song. The only qualifications required for me to like a song is that it is melodic and has reasonable lyrics. I enjoy listening to, and performing, all sorts, from slow sexy blues right the way through to raunchy rock and roll. Please do not make the mistake of assuming that anyone over thirty is not worth a listen. You never know, you might hear a song you like. In turn I have found many that I like from our visits to karaoke, some have even been added to my repertoire!

KJs: Enjoy presenting your shows if you can. If you find the public more annoying than you are enjoying, find another profession.

Patrons: You have gone to karaoke to have a fun evening. Try not to have your fun at the expense of others.

In short treat others as you would wish to be treated yourself.


Best wishes

[George]

Well put, Lauraine, and glad to hear from you again. I'm with you regarding style. If anyone were to ask me what my favorite is I'd have to say "music", that's it "music", and anything from Blondie to Bach will do just fine.

Take care,

George

[SteveWalker]

DennisH,
You, I and everyone reads these posts from a different angel. Perhaps you think that your "angle" is more valid than the other folks here. Just remember that a forum is very boring when everyone is saying exactly the same thing (as you prefer to say "from a same angle").


Lauraine Graham says:

1. Thank God for the regulars.

You're right but they're several kinds of regulars and each one has a different ANGLE (please excuse me as I'm trying to be tactful). First of course is your karaoke regulars, next the BAR's regulars, the sports loving regulars on pool and darts, and I'm sure you can complete the list. On any particular night you will certainly have some wild combination of this going on while you do a karaoke show. It's NOT always understood which regulars are the important ones. Do you know?

2. Karaoke shows are patronized by amateurs.

I prefer to do private parties but sometimes I do bars. You would swear that the singers that come to my bar shows are professionals and many of them were. Most singers pro or amateur tend to do the same set of songs most of the time. I'm sure they're aware of "repertoire balance" but do you really think they could give a ****? I don't play with the rotation to please the "other regulars" ether because the sign outside says KARAOKE TONIGHT. I want my "karaoke regulars" to feel welcome and free to sing what they want to sing. If you want to lose your regulars just play games with the rotation. Nothing pisses them off more than that and I feel the same way when I attend a karaoke show.

3. Polite, helpful, supportive, but firm. It is not the KJ’s place to police a venue

Exactly right. Bars don't pay enough anyway so why should I do their job? As you pointed out, being a touchy feely KJ can be treacherous!

The important factor is the enjoyment your patrons experience. If you also enjoy their performance, that is a bonus. Regarding "old farts" not listening to new music, surely that's their choice.

Exactly right. And exactly what I’ve been saying in this thread while employing a "different angle".

KJs: Enjoy presenting your shows if you can.

I hate karaoke. I just like to sing and showoff!
I currently setting a 24 track studio and will be doing the real thing again!


Thanks for all the sweet comments Lauraine Graham.
Steve

**** Remember it's ONLY karaoke! ****

[Lauraine Graham- with the Lord]

To George
So kind, as always, thanks. By the way, an earlier comment of yours has only just sunk in. I got the impression you were feeling a little pressured about people appearing to jump on you all time, so to speak. It does look that sometimes, I agree. My dear, gallant Sir George, do you not know why this sometimes happens? I believe it is because you are unfraid to speak your mind, you fear no-one. You gallop in on your noble steed to the rescue of lesser beings and stand your ground bravely, sometimes in face of seemly awesome odds. They are jealous, simply put. But you carry on being you because, in spite of appearances, you are much admired.

To Steve
Thanks for your comments, they are much appreciated. I agree completely about there being two types of regulars and I believe that Management's view of the most important group will be his bar regulars. Afterall, they are the ones in there every night putting money into the coffers. The karaoke night will bring in those extra people who would not normally be there. They are important too, but mainly to the success of the evening and will decide whether or not it is to be continued.

I have observed the regularly high standard of singers at karaoke these days, and I do believe that many are resting or retired professionals. However, I have always believed, and experience bourne me out, that there is a LOT of real talent out there. They will never be given the chance to achieve stardom, despite their talent, because their face, or more acurately their body is the wrong size or shape. And even the ones who have the right image may not have what it takes to perform consistantly well. The public's expectations are so very high these days, and it costs a FORTUNE to promote a new artist; management agencies these days will only spend the money on a virtual sure thing.

One last thing. You said you are starting up a studio of your own soon. Since reading all the stuff on these forums I got the feeling that you would would be happier dealing with professionals. Well good luck to you, I say, I hope you are successful and wish you well.

Best wishes to all

[SteveWalker]

Lauraine,

Thanks for the kind words. You and George are the smartest.

I got an idea for you all "to have a chance to achieve stardom". Let's all record ourselves and post the MP3 on this site for review. You can record to a stereo tape recorder at a karaoke show or use Hoster on your PC. So, what do you think Lauraine? It won't "cost a FORTUNE to promote" yourself on MTU, right?

Have a nice day!
Steve

[Lauraine Graham- with the Lord]

Nice idea, Steve

The show-off in me says "yeah, I'll have a go"

The humanitarian in me says "Why inflict me on the general populous?"

Seriously though, I wouldn't mind having a go. If you are serious, let me know.

Best wishes

[George]

I got an idea.. Ask Dave's permission to go so far afield on his site.

George

[SteveWalker]

Originally posted by George
I got an idea.. Ask Dave's permission to go so far afield on his site. George

May I nominate George to lead this venture? Well, George?

Steve

[George]

Steve,
It was your idea, not mine. You want it, You ask.

George

[Lauraine Graham- with the Lord]

I know that a little controversy is salt on one's potatoes, but why are we rolling up our sleeves when we haven't even established if there is enough interest?

Perhaps the idea was a little premature of protocol, and it was kind of George to point it out, but sometimes an idea explodes out spontaneously. Perhaps we should ask Dave what he thinks and for his advice. If a lot of interest is shown from the public and the idea is impractical from Mnagement's point of view, there could be disappointment, bad feeling or worse.

Although it was unintentional Steve and I have forgotten our manners, and I am sorry. I apologise to George for upsetting him and to Dave & Co if we have alarmed them.

Peace, friends

[George]

Lauraine,
I guessed I missed something along the way. Didn't realize there was any controversy or I was coming across upset, just laconic. Nothing there to be upset about, simply told Steve "you want it you ask." Most certainly no apologies from you are in order.

I personally don't believe it will hunt with Dave anyway. I'm just speculating, but I'd venture a guess that unless he saw proof positive that none of the material sent in is outside of public domain(and since the 1976* copywrite law revisions, many old standards fell out of public domain back into THEIR clutches) he will not put MTU at risk as a file swapping center. Just purely my own opinion, and will wipe the egg off my face(again) if wrong.

I didn't express these thoughts initially, as I didn't want to appear as though I was trying to shoot the idea down, or sound like a "know it all". It very well may get off the ground, so Steve, ask the man what he thinks about it. If he consents, then as Lauraine pointed out see if there's sufficient interest to go ahead with it. That would be the time to post the idea as a separate thread to command more attention.

Take care,

George

*Prior to the revision of the U.S. Copyright Law in 1976, music copyrights were granted for a period of 18 years, and could be renewed for another 18 years, a total protected period of 36 years. Therefore, as of 1977, any songs copyrighted in 1938 or prior entered Public Domain. From 1938, you can extend those 36 years to songs that were copyrighted up until 1976.

At that point, the change in the Copyright Law offered protection for the lifetime of the author plus 75 years. If there were collaborators (and thus co-copyright owners) the protection applied for lifetime plus 75 years of the last surviving co-copyright owner.
http://www.hsga.org/newsarchive/pubdomain.html

[jim in ohio]

I think that KAPA, you know the people from Salem, Mass that were out of work for a few hundred years until Sound Choice decided to hire them, would have a field day with posting songs on one of the sites they really hate...

Jim

[SteveWalker]

George and Lauraine,

Looks like the copyright laws may ruin our "chance to achieve stardom". That's too bad. Well if anyone else has a workaround to the problem please chime in.

Thanks guys,
Steve

[Lauraine Graham- with the Lord]

Thanks for the info on the US copyright laws. This demonstrates the "impractical" nature of the objections I thought might be raised.

I'm glad I didn't offend you, George, that would be the last thing I would want, you or anyone else, come to that.

Best wishes

[George]

You're more than welcome, Lauraine.

You know, reading those copywrite regs, and translating them into reality are two different animals. Our normal perception is that the laws exist for the protection of the artist, and the publisher that bore the expenses of the publication. With this in mind, I went to a website featuring our old and respected friend, Cole Porter.

Mr. Porter published "In The Still Of The Night" in 1938, and another timeless one, "Night And Day" in 1932. These were just two of probably 2-300 songs attributed to this genius, some dating back earlier.

Mr. Porter died in 1964. It seems almost inconceivable that, having been captured back by the opportunists, none of his music will become public domain again until 2039 !!! I'm sure this must be a comfort to Mr.Porter, wherever he is.

Tell ya what I figure happened. The industry saw a resurgence of these old standards hitting the charts and bringing in big bucks that they had no control over, and what we're looking at today is the result.

Along the lines of controlling the bucks, I'm going to beat an old drum again. Everbody who has continued to buy Sound Choice is contributing to Media Clog; supporting S.C's position, and it's ultimate effect on the entire Karaoke industry. It may not be too late, but the only way to stop it is to boycott their products. I said it before and I'll say it again. Bite the bullet now and do without their product, or eat the whole cannon later on. It is coming to pass. I haven't purchased a S.C. disc since this first surfaced, and will continue to do without, best arrangements or not. The KJ's are in a position to hit them hard, resolve the issue quickly, and get the public's support doing it, but just don't seem to grasp that. !!!

Interesting to note that SC named their KJ packages "Brick" and "Foundation", both elements needed to build an empire. KJ's are the guys they get their big bucks from, and if those big bucks were withheld, would get their attention.

You phrased it well, Jim In Ohio, old buddy. It's one great big witch hunt.

Take care,

George

[swany]

[quote]Originally posted by DennisH
[b]I've been running a karaoke show for several years, and since the beginning... my show has had a standard set of "regulars" who come to almost every show. It's usually a group of about 7 to 10 people, and while each and every one of them are nice people... I am having some problems.
3. I am constantly having to listen to many members of the crowd complain about these "regulars", as they are much older than anyone else in the bar, and their music reflects that. For instance, I'll have 5 or 6 upbeat modern songs that get the whole bar moving, and then a regular will get up and sing "Crazy" by Patsy Cline... I realize that this is the nature of Karaoke, but I'm tired of listening to the crowds complaints!
You will notice I edited some of your qoute. One of the things I have noticed is some regulars do get better if you encourage them, another thing is when they come in it is usually early, at this stage you know their voice and if possible give them a little karaoke ruelette and pick out a song that "you thought they would sound good singing" pour on some effects and see if you can get them out of their rut. You never know they may branch out if you do this early when the rotation is small. You may also pick one of the modern duets and have them get up and sing with you. Some you'll never get out of yesteryear, but make comments like "Crazy by Patsy insert their name one of my favorites." You as a host can get more crowd encouragement, and you never know, just remember the place you work at have that same person as a regular. We have a old gal that used to sing nothing but old country, when she first started and wouldn't move beyond it, her voice is terrible but she is happy go lucky non drinker (she does have pop) For about the last year she has switched from the old country to old pop, and on occasion she sings Bitch and it brings hoots hollars and cheers. Get them to change and fit the crowd take some older standards a few sing and make it their venue. Just some thought. Swany

[Lauraine Graham- with the Lord]

"pick out a song "you thought they sound good singing", pour on some effects, and see if you can get them out of their rut"

As it happens I am an "old gal", and I can tell you that if a presenter decided to "play karaoke roulette" with me I would be MOST displeased and would probably walk out.

The average patron works hard all week and the karaoke is likely to be his or her one night out, and you decide that the choice of song is unsuitable. Most patrons are not ex-professionals, as I am, and their limited experience would not be able to handle being played with, and recognition of this fact should not be lost in the presenter's ego! I understand that as the presenter of your show you want to shape the show, but with all due respect who do you think you are?