Genuine CD+G Disks

[Roy Dennis]

Just thought I would share my latest experience on purchasing CD+g disk.
I just purchased from an ebay seller a Sunfly World Star vol 36 (This is a Johnny Cash Karaoke disk). These are usually packaged in a cardboard sleeve with all the song details on the reverse. This one turned up in a generic type sunfly sleeve with like an address label stuck to the front with the volume # and singers name stuck on Printed on the sleeve it states "This Is An Authentic Sunfly Production And To The Original Specification" The disk artwork looks like it is printed on an ink-jet printer again on a generic label with a white space at the top where they printed the song titles, definitely not screen printed.

On receiving this disk I phoned Sunfly and spoke to one of the staff to inquire weather this was a genuine Sunfly disk, they confirmed that it was and said that when an older out of stock item is ordered now they just burn one with the original titles on it much like when you order a self compilation disk. I pointed out that I was unhappy with this as you don't get the artwork with it and it looks like anyone could have printed it and in fact I could make a better copy myself
I thought the best way to tell a genuine disk was by the printed method used and the info imprinted on the middle clear part. There seems to be some numbers on the middle clear part but it does not relate to the vol #.

I have since then put my comments to them in writing, I don't know if I will get a reply.

Roy.

[ddouglass]

That would be a hard one to prove. Make sure you keep the receipt with it.

[RandyMcCharles]

Well if the manufacturer sells disks that look like fakes... How can they hope make any legal case against a pirate making copies? Perhaps there is some tell-tale manufacturer signature there that is hard to spot. It would make sense that they wouldn't tell you about it. Or maybe Sunfly just hopes to sell enough to stay in business and is less worried about piracy than manufacturers like say, I don't know, Sound Choice.

[George]

The so called "legit" companies have been messing around for years. About 11 or 12 years ago I bought a Pocket Songs disc PSCDG 1297 that contains the top 10 hits done by Dinah Washington, no vocal demo's, just the karaoke tracks.

I have these same songs by her on an L.P.(best blues singer that ever stepped up to a mike) and I swear the arrangments are identical, right down to the last note. Possible not the original, true, but what really cinches it as a pirate job is the lousy attempt of vocal removel they did. Anybody familiar with Dinah knows she has a discinctive voice. There's no doubt who you can hear faintly in the background on all 10 tracks.....interesting

[RandyMcCharles]

Wow. If that is true I have to wonder why no one went after them. That is outright, provable theft. I went to Pocket Song's web site to read their 'licensing' statement to see who they claim to pay for rights, and found something else entirely. They are selling rights:

You can license any song in our catalogue to make a personal compact disc recording featuring your own voice for the following fees:

1 - 9 songs: $150 per song
10 + songs: $135 per song

[ddouglass]

None of the producers tell you who they pay for rights to reproduce. The only license they talk about is about their license when we buy their products.

[RandyMcCharles]

This is too wierd. When I first started buying CDGs 3 years ago I went to all the manufacturer web sites to try to see if they claimed to pay all the proper licensing fees (so that I as an end custoemr was protected). Most of them included such claims in their FAQ. Those that didn't I emailed and receive vague confirmations.
I just did a quick look at several manufacturer sites and all of these claims now appear to be gone. Even Sound Choice no longer claims to pay proper license fees (that I could find during my quick look). Since this is ubiquitous I suspect there is a legal advantage to dropping the claims. The waters just seem to get muddier rather than cleaner.

[billyo]

like i said in my previous post on other thread, when we bought these disc, we as the consumer already paid what ever it is that that should have been paid, it's the pruducers of these cdg's who are responsible to pay the original producers/artist of said disc, the original producers are probably going after these cdg producer, who probably didnt have the money to pay and in turn these cdg producers are going after us..and to have the right or license to use it is probably a scare tactic to get money from us and to help them pay the original producers/artist.

[muzicman144]

Originally Posted by billyo

like i said in my previous post on other thread, when we bought these disc, we as the consumer already paid what ever it is that that should have been paid, it's the pruducers of these cdg's who are responsible to pay the original producers/artist of said disc, the original producers are probably going after these cdg producer, who probably didnt have the money to pay and in turn these cdg producers are going after us..and to have the right or license to use it is probably a scare tactic to get money from us and to help them pay the original producers/artist.

As I have said before, years ago, i would occasionally trade with a fellow performer, never realizing it WAS an act of piracy. I sure quite a few of you out there did the same. No harm was meant, no intent to defraud was meant. I did it without even thinking it was wrong. Some of these files are in my database and i can't even remember which is which without doing a prolonged time consuming search.
I believe this is what Sound Choice is betting on when they file these suits without checking anything. MOST kj's have illegal files in their database and they may have never intended to break the law or even thought of it as breaking the law.
I still say boycott Sound Choice and any other company that pursues an honest working man the way it is being done. I do believe you should catch the crooks.
muzicman144

[Roy Dennis]

Just as a follow up on my original post, I did receive a reply from Sunfly about my complaint, I attach a copy of the email below:


So if you read the attachment you will understand why I am at this moment going through a list of their disks to see what I need


Roy.

[bigjimwhite]

This almost sounds like a "Bribe" to keep you happy and quiet! Just from my prospective that is!

[ddouglass]

While I understand their point of view and see why they did it that way, I would still expect a label of some kind authenticating the disk as original with their disclaimer and a disk ID number on it. Even if it wasn't like the original at least to have some way for you to be able to say this is an original purchased from Sunfly. Even apreprinted stick on label would work for that and be cheaper for them. Most of the companies just don't bother with out of print disks at all. At least they are trying.

[Musicman51]

At least they are trying.

Kind of a lame attempt at best. They sure scream to high heaven when someone makes a copy..but buy a cheap sticker labled copy? They see nothing wrong with it. Years ago you pay your money you got a fresh pressed CDG in a jewel case, printed graphic page, spine title card, some times even printed lyric sheets. I subscribe to chartbuster country & pop hits of the month. They come in a thin non padded shipping envelope. Open it and the disc is in a cheap card board sleeve. Cutting cost? naw..just giving you less for more money. And on some chartbuster cdg's you get the junk. If you look real close on most chartbuster cdg's, especially the new monthly disc, it will say something to the effect "guranteed to play in all karaoke graphic players. But some of their older disc, you get junk cheap copies. And....shame on them, i can tell they didn't use microstudio. A few wouldn't play in my old triple drawer JVC. If a company produced cdg will not play in the old stand by trusty JVC players..that disc is junk..period.They did replace them..but still it's the whole idea. Stinks....and so it goes........

[muzicman144]

Originally Posted by Musicman51

Kind of a lame attempt at best. They sure scream to high heaven when someone makes a copy..but buy a cheap sticker labled copy? They see nothing wrong with it. Years ago you pay your money you got a fresh pressed CDG in a jewel case, printed graphic page, spine title card, some times even printed lyric sheets. I subscribe to chartbuster country & pop hits of the month. They come in a thin non padded shipping envelope. Open it and the disc is in a cheap card board sleeve. Cutting cost? naw..just giving you less for more money. And on some chartbuster cdg's you get the junk. If you look real close on most chartbuster cdg's, especially the new monthly disc, it will say something to the effect "guranteed to play in all karaoke graphic players. But some of their older disc, you get junk cheap copies. And....shame on them, i can tell they didn't use microstudio. A few wouldn't play in my old triple drawer JVC. If a company produced cdg will not play in the old stand by trusty JVC players..that disc is junk..period.They did replace them..but still it's the whole idea. Stinks....and so it goes........

George, the man that use to play all string instruments on the chartbuster country tracks use to play with me in Lynchburg Va. Great talented musician. He says they are not cutting corners in the recording end of chartbuster tracks. They may be cutting corners on packaging, and i accept that.
Chartbuster is not involved in the KIAA or the Slepp's attacks on kj's.
I won't buy Sound Choice, but i continue to buy Chartbuster.
George, for your info, send me a private email, and i will give you the name of the musician i'm talking about. You may just know him as he toured with some top names in the business. Straight up guy who loves the music. It is great to play chartbuster tracks knowing the picker is some one you played with a while, and i do reconize his picking style.
muzicman144

[bryant]

Originally Posted by bigjimwhite

This almost sounds like a "Bribe" to keep you happy and quiet! Just from my prospective that is!

I disagree with you entirely. This sounds like a very professional response to a very legitimate complaint.
I could not see a better way to deal with this as they did.

[Roy Dennis]

Yes Bryant, I agree with you. It seems I am not the only one to have made this complaint and that they are doing their best to rectify the problem.

Roy.

[Musicman51]

I agree with you walt, i also use chartbuster...i subscribe to their monthly country and pop hits every month. I've always said, chartbuster is the only country CDG to be had. They put out a great product. I have visited Big Mama's a couple of times. My daughter won a free recording session there. Sang at the cafe to while i was down there. There sound system was just fantastic, even when i sang outside on chartbusters patio. I was just speaking of the packaging. And i guess like everything else, price's are going up, and things change i guess. Chartbuster is the only show in town far as i'm concerned. I don't use that sunfly outfit, not impressed with their material, and selections. Yes i think i do know who you're refering to...a great player and a nice person. Yeah...sound choice is history up 'round these parts walt. Sound choice tried to pull some stuff in my state a couple of years ago. They lost in a court case big time, hilarious actually. The KIA{A}, sound choice, slepps and that whole gang is a joke walt. We have written them off. We don't mention karaoke and sound choice in the same breath round these here parts.... I'll email ya walt.

[admin]

Originally Posted by Roy Dennis

Just as a follow up on my original post, I did receive a reply from Sunfly about my complaint, I attach a copy of the email below:

So if you read the attachment you will understand why I am at this moment going through a list of their disks to see what I need

Roy, your PDF file lacks; 1) A letterhead indicating who it is from, 2) A prepared date.

If I didn't know you were a straight-up businessman, I'd say that was a dummy you printed and made a pdf.

Very unprofessional on Sunfly's part, but then so is making discs with sticky labels.

[muzicman144]

In This day and age, anyone with a modern computer, laser printer to print on disc, and common sense can duplicate any karaoke manufacturers disk and you can't tell the difference.
Same can be said for a reciept showing one bought the disk. May take a while, but it can be done very easy with todays technology.
Catching a pirate is one thing, proving he is one is something else. So many small music stores that sold cdg's have gone out of business, no records remain, so it is pretty easy to provide a bogus, but non tracable receipt for any cdg bought.
JMHO
muzicman144

[Musicman51]

Years ago when i purchased an old pioneer cdg player from a dealer who has long since gone out of business. They said buy the player they're throw in a sweet georgia browns box collection. When i recieved my order. Some were the gold and black disc, some were blue and white, some were orange and white, some were black and white. I got them through what i think was a reputable dealer...who knows. I couldn't prove it today.