Archived CD+G files?

[jobiesmi]

Microstudio will not write some of my archived CD+G files to disc. I noticed this several months ago when I tried to recreate several compilation discs in my collection. These compilation folders where archived to disc as data files by a program called HP CDWriter that came with the HP burner that I have been using on a hi-end workstation for the past several years. There are 5 folders in question. The tracks on compilation folders #3 & #4 can be selected and burned like normal, no problem. When I select and arrange the tracks in compilation folders #1, #2 and #5, then click Write to Disc, nothing happens? No lockup, no error message, just nothing. All 5 of these compilations where archived in the same manor, that is, saved and burned as data files in named folders. Microstudio recognizes the same files and will play them in the Play Tab interface. Does anyone out there know why this may be happening? I know someone will say that the files somehow got corrupted in the transfer from computer to disc and back again. If that is so, why do they play in Microstudio but will not burn? Is there a preferred method of archiving and then retrieving ripped CD+G tracks other than the way I did it? Is there something I may be doing wrong that I don’t know about? I have a great many more archived compilations in storage that I haven’t yet tried to retrieve. The thought that they may all be useless is blowing my mind. Before I go to the trouble of re-importing all these tracks and determining the key change on each one, etc., Help.

[Garry A. Leslie]

Hello Jobiesmi,
I tried to bring up 2 archive compilations today only to find that althought the file names still exist they were empty.
I looked in Songlist were the files were originally sent when I first burned them before transferring the lists created into Custom Assembly with the saved file names.
The original songs still existed as individual entries so I was able to recreate the two lists using the same file titles.
A pain but the only way, I think, to retrieve them without the bother of importing them all again.
I think it has something to do with creating new files and not saving old ones, Microstudio often asks whether you want to save lists and if you don't the contents of the file are erased.
It could be something else, if so, anyone out there know another reason this happens?
Regards from across the Pond
Garry

[George]

JOBIESMI asked:

Is there a preferred method of archiving and then retrieving ripped CD+G tracks other than the way I did it?

It would seem the simplest and most fool proof method would be to use the import feature built in to Microstudio to archive tracks to the hard drive, to later be burned to disc.

George

[jobiesmi]

Thanks Garry & George for the comeback. I guess I didn’t explain my methodology precisely enough. I work in digital audio, video and graphic design. After completing a project, archiving audio, video, graphical and CD+G files is part of my routine. When creating a CD+G compilation, first the tracks are ripped from the commercial discs to my hard drive, then assembled and burned. Custom labels are created. Upon completion of a compilation (or a created-from-scratch CD+G track), all files that where created for that project (.cdg, .bin, .wav, .psd, .jpg, whatever) are arranged in named folders, and then archived to disc for storage. I manage all my saved files for media manually and don’t depend on an application to tell me where to store a created file on my hard drive. That way I always know where everything is all the time. My method for getting them to archive disc is to burn them as data files, as apposed to burning a CD+G disc that will play on a karaoke machine. In theory, these data files should hold up in the transfer from my hard drive to archive disc and back again. Then when I need to make a re-creation of one of them, I should be able to drag them back to my hard drive from the archive disc, and then re-burn the compilation. The problem is that, once the archived files are returned to my hard drive, some of these compilation files can be burned to a new CD+G disc to be played, and some don’t work anymore, even though all where archived by the same method.

Since no one seems to know what is happening to these data file transfers, the better method for archiving would seem to be to simply make an extra CD+G disc for archiving purposes, then when re-creating one, use “Duplicate Disc” in Microstudio to make the re-creation. This method works fine and after thinking about it, is probably easier than trying to work with the data files. However, archiving with data files is the preferred and purest method with my other professional grade applications. I have never encountered this problem before when working with archived data files in other applications.

I would still like to know why some data files work and some don’t, and why, if these same files can be played in Microstudio, why won’t they burn? How do I get some of the MTU gurus to chime in on this topic? This forum is more complicated to learn than Adobe After Effects, Ha!

[George]

Thanks for the input. haven't a clue why some work and some won't.

Wonder if the ones that won't work may have been saved with an extension other than .cdg, .bin perhaps. If so, might try changing the extension to .cdg

Screwier things have happened.

George

[jobiesmi]

Thanks george, but no. File extentions stay the same going out and coming back in, and can be viewed from within Microstudio when selecting. I keep my file extentions in view at all times. I know better than to try to burn with a .bin extention from within Microsrudio. How do I get the MTU guys to notice this string and add their two cents worth? Surely you would think with all their experience that they would have had to notice this problem from time to time and have an opinion.

[Garry A. Leslie]

I was under the impression that only cdg. and/or wav. files could be imported using Microstudio.
Anything imported goes on the hard drive automatically. This is the only way Microstudio works, and unless you specify a different folder, they will go into the default file SONGLIST.
So again unless you actually delete them from Songlist they are there permanently on your hard drive.
Also if you import them as a Custom assemby they are also imported to the hard drive in the default folder.
Anything with a different extension won't be read by the program
I have tried, just to see, if the system can do other things, it can't.
It only does what it says on the can.
Regards from across the pond
Garry

[Garry A. Leslie]

Meant to say this and forgot.
I use a second hard drive in my PC onto which I import all my CDG's. and nothing else.
I have as default D:\Songlist.
If you're interested in perfection once they are on the hard drive they remain the same as the day you imported them....no discs to get damaged.
Regards from across the pond
Garry

[jobiesmi]

Hi Garry,
Thanks for the come-back. FYI: I also store all my imported .cdg files on my D: drive (30 GB), which is where I store all my audio, photos and graphic files. I have a much larger E: drive (90 GB) that is used for video storage. However, all new imports, whether .cdg, .jpg, .wav, mp3, .avi, whatever, get stored in their own newly created folders, i.e. PopRock-Vol#1, PopRock-Vol#2, whatever, etc. The graphic files (usually Photoshop .psd files) used for the custom labels for any particular volume are stored in a sub-folder of that volume so they stay associated with that volume. I have never used the “Songlist” folder for storing anything. It is empty and always has been (except when Duplicating, which is only temporary for the duration of the duplication process). I’ve often wondered which of my audio applications put that file there. I now realize that it was MTU. Ha! Upon import, I redirect MTU software (or any other application I am using for creating files) to put them in the folder I have created just for them, not the default path for saving stuff in any particular application. That way everything stays nice and neat, and I always know where everything is. These folders can be thought of as a temporary place to store elements of a project. When I am through with any particular project, those folders are then burned to disc as data files (archiving) for long term storage, then removed (deleted) from the hard drive. Yes, I delete them from the hard drive! That’s the whole idea with archiving; to free up space on a drive and provide long term storage that can be re-used later. As you say, Microstudio only imports .cdg and .wav. My problem is not with file management on my drives. It’s with archiving these files, then returning them to the hard drive for re-use at a later date. Sure your .cdg files stay the same as the day they where imported if you just leave them there and never move or manipulate them. Try archiving them as data files (all files are some type of data) and see what happens. No one has addressed this question - I repeat: How do I get the MTU guys to notice this string and add their two cents worth? Surely you would think with all their experience that they would have had to notice this problem from time to time and have an opinion.

[Garry A. Leslie]

Hello jobiesmi,
I am only a humble karaoke clown, using all my MTU stuff for fulfilling my singing ambitions.
You obviously know far more than I do about the other stuff we have been talking about.
I am happy to leave my stuff on a hard drive.
I only deal in cdg. and wav. although I swap and change MP3 and other files into wav. to create my own cdg. files.
I also know that MTU are also happy to let the various gurus on this site sort out peoples' problems before they stick their 2 penneth in.
I often think there is a limit to what they know about some of the things that other people are trying to do and avoid being pulled into the threads before someone else has come up with a solution.
I can only wish you the best in trying to solve the problems you are having.
Someone out there will come up with some answers but don't hold your breath.
Regards from across the pond.
Garry

[George]

Jobiesmi said:

Sure your .cdg files stay the same as the day they where imported if you just leave them there and never move or manipulate them. Try archiving them as data files (all files are some type of data) and see what happens.

Sorry, couldn't be further from the truth. This guy creates cdg's on the hard drive, archives them to cdg's, puts them back on the hard drive as need be, but one thing we do not do is change the character of the file.

If it starts out cdg it stays cdg and to convert them to data files is where I've come to believe you're blowing it. Move them, yes, compress them in Hoster, yes, but manipulate them by changing their file extensions, for what reason?

Do you think that Roxio Creator 5 software distinguishes between creating data cd's and audio cd's just for fun?

Criticize us, if you will, but you're the one with the problem moving them around, not us. We move them on and off and back on the hard drive with no sweat.

George

[George]

I said:

"Move them, yes, compress them in Hoster, yes, but manipulate them by changing their file extensions, for what reason?"

I meant to say:

Move them, yes, compress them in Hoster, yes, but manipulate them by changing their file characteristics, for what reason?

Sorry about that.


George

[jobiesmi]

Hi Gary & George,
To Garry:
Thanks for the thoughtful reply. I to am a karaoke clown (I like to use the term “Karaoke Artist”) who is very serious about my singing, but only as a hobby. I am also a not too humble professional artist (graphic design, video and optical disc authoring and mastering), forced into being a computer technophile in order to pursue my craft in this digital age we live in. The never ending learning curve. I am constantly amazed at the power that it affords me and the frustrations that go with it. Forgive me if I seemed condescending but it seems so hard and time consuming to get my point across. We all seem to be using different phraseology and never quite on the same page, you know.

As to your response: “I often think there is a limit to what they know about some of the things that other people are trying to do and avoid being pulled into the threads before someone else has come up with a solution.” Boy, you’re sure right about that, and I guess I knew that all along. I just needed some confirmation. I also know that tech support is the biggest headache for hardware and software sellers everywhere, and that the trend is away from free support. Now-a-days you have to pay big bucks for reliable and qualified support. I remember when I first bought into MTU about 4 years ago I actually got to talk to a techie on the phone for a while, and he was very helpful at the time. Those days are long gone.

Thanks for the kind wishes and believe me, I’m not holding my breath, Ha.

To George:
Clam down Bro. No need to get your panties in a bind. I can’t find where I criticize anyone here. As I stated to Garry: We all seem to be using different phraseology and never quite on the same page. That’s the trouble with forums. Everyone’s methods and terminology is a bit different and it takes so long to reach understanding. I think my use of the word “data” is confusing the issue. I use that term in a very general way, meaning that all files on our PCs is some form of data. I do not mean that I am somehow changing the “characteristics” of the file, or data as I call it. I do not mean that I change a .cdg file to a data file. A .cdg file is a data file already, you know. The only time I have ever changed the file extension on a .cdg file (and back again) is from within Karaoke Builder, to good use. **** those Brits (sorry Garry) and their .bin files, Ha. As you suggest, if I am changing the charactistics of any files, it is unintentional.

You mention Roxio CDCreator 5. I’m not familiar with that app., but if it is similar to the HP CDCreator app. that I was using (I say “was” because I have just recently abandoned that HP burner, and replaced it with a Plextor DVD drive that came bundled with Roxio CD-DVD Creator 6, which I haven’t yet tried to open) to archive with, it gives you the options of either making an audio CD or a Data CD. If you choose audio, you get a disc meant to be played in a CD player, to listen to music. If you choose Data CD, it puts the files you select (any and all files are data files, after all) on the CD for accessing from a CDRom. This is like the difference between a CD+G disc you burn with Microstudio for playing in a Karaoke player, and burning, or writing the raw .cdg files to a CDR disc for accessing on a CDRom. This is archiving, or at least, how I’ve been doing it. The files characteristics are not changed, or should not be. There are other methods of moving files to CD or DVD such as drag-and-drop, Copy To Folder, etc., depending on your OS and your other apps. The whole point is moot with me now anyways as I have decided that the easiest way to save a Compilation (as stated in my second reply above) is to simply make an extra one on the initial burn and call it a “master” that can be kept safe and duped as often as necessary. Why bother with data files that have to be moved around and put in order and may get corrupted in the process, etc. To bad MTU doesn’t include a function within Microstudio that will safely archive their files for us.

I am done with this discussion for my purposes, but I really appreciate both of your inputs. I am really not a discussion group type of guy but it was fun, albeit a bit frustrating to have this chat with you blokes. Do you guys ever talk about music and singing in karaoke clubs, bla, bla, bla, Ha?

[Garry A. Leslie]

Hello jobiesmi,
Sorry to continue this thread, but I would just agee that a lot of what I read in various threads have people talking at cross purposes, mainly because we are used to our own technobabble which doesn't always get understood by others.
Some are extremely funny, although not on purpose.
Although we all become more proficient through experience, very few of us are professional in the technical world of music.
Incidentally I resent being called a Brit I am a little Englander
Ha! Ha!
Regards from across the pond
Garry

[George]

I wasn't lathered up about anything. I will agree that we obviously have not been on the same wavelength at all. I still can't se the problem. Perhaps I'm in dense mode on this one.

You want to put your cdg tracks on cd's that can be used at a later date and want MTU to provide the means to do so. That's what I've been able to glean from posts.

MTU has provided the means.We do that all the time. That is exactly what the Custom Assembly feature of Microstudio does. What the discs are burned for is of no consequence. The material is there, in original condition, on disc, to be saved for later reference, or used in shows, played on karaoke players at home, or whatever.

I did prove to myself that creating a data disc out of them changed the characteristic of the material. I did one. Even though it retained the .cdg extension, Microstudio could not read it, and that seems to be the problem you've been encountering.

Solution: archive, save, export(whatever term trips your trigger) through Microstudio to a cd, and the tracks will remain in original condition.

Anyway, no offense taken at this end.

George

[jobiesmi]

Hi Garry & George,
No one else seems interested in this topic, so it seems that this is our own private chat room, Ha. Just letting you know that I looked at your messages and appreciate the input. We seem to finally be on the same page now with our discussion. This will be my last posting in this string, but look for a new string soon. Today I started a series of tests involving archiving .cdg files and learned some things. When I feel confident I will reveal my findings. Take care until then.
Dad Rock