Feedback Eliminator

[Roy Dennis]

Does anyone use a feedback eliminator ?
I have been thinking of purchasing an OMNITRONIC FEEDBACK ELIMINATOR
Most of my shows are in small to medium sized bars where there is no stage and cannot position speakers very far from singers. I use radio mics which means singers sometimes wander nearer to the speakers.
What I am asking is,
1 are these things effective ?
2 do they require a lot of adjusting during a show ?

The one above is supposed to have an auto mode and it does have XLR input and outputs.
I use a pair of active speakers coming from a mixing deck.

Any advise and recommendations please.

Roy.

[billyo]

in my opinion they won't do you much, if you have a separate channel eq's, just turn the highs down, i know a kj and he had a feedback elliminator and i used to see him tweaking the elliminator everytime a new singer comes up, what kind of board and speakers do you have..just curious..

[Roy Dennis]

I have a pair of Wharfedale pro Titan 12 Active speakers, Vocopro KJ-7808RV Mixer and Kam Kwm twin radio mikes. The mixer also mixes video because I prefer to play singers own disc's from my DVD/CD Karaoke player rather than use the Disk option in Hoster.

Roy.

[billyo]

Originally Posted by Roy Dennis

I have a pair of Wharfedale pro Titan 12 Active speakers, Vocopro KJ-7808RV Mixer and Kam Kwm twin radio mikes. The mixer also mixes video because I prefer to play singers own disc's from my DVD/CD Karaoke player rather than use the Disk option in Hoster.

Roy.

i'm not familiar with the vocopro mixer, since i have never used it, i know that whaferdale speakers has a mic and cd/tape input at the back of the speakers ,and also can be use as a floor monitor, but are you daisy chaining the speakers and plugging the mic in ?, whaferdale has a high and low eq's, maybe you can turn the highs down ( if your daisy chaining and mic plugged in ) and also it's best if you have them up on a speaker stand.

[ddouglass]

Originally Posted by Roy Dennis

I have a pair of Wharfedale pro Titan 12 Active speakers, Vocopro KJ-7808RV Mixer and Kam Kwm twin radio mikes. The mixer also mixes video because I prefer to play singers own disc's from my DVD/CD Karaoke player rather than use the Disk option in Hoster.

Roy.

I love that mixer, basically because it does pass the video through from all 3 input channels along with the audio.
I have a Balenger 32 channel Equalizer with the feedback eliminator built in and I do find that when we use it my overall volume is cut-down requiring the amp to be turned up more. Regardless of what feedback eliminator you use you will most likely have to reset it once in a while. They tend to cut down your overall audio and cuts down more as you go along.
Does your reciever for your wireless mikes have any sensitivity controls? If so try turning that down a bit and have your singers hold the mike closer to their mouth. I use the Voco Pro wireless sets and can control this. We have been able to eliminate all except when someone points the mike directly at a speaker from close range. Nothing will kill that except education of your singers.

[Roy Dennis]

I have everything plugged into the mixer, from the mixer I usually use left channel to one speaker, right channel to other, sometimes I daisy chain depending on the location. Left & right channels to one speaker then output from that speaker to the input of the other one. they are on speaker stands. I can control the feedback by adjusting the high & low frequency or the gain on the Mic's on the mixing board.
It is just that I wondered if these Eliminators were any good, by your first answer I see you are not impressed with them.
If I don't get any positive responses to this I will dismiss the idea of using one.

Thanks for your response.

Roy.

[Roy Dennis]

Originally Posted by ddouglass

I love that mixer, basically because it does pass the video through from all 3 input channels along with the audio.
I have a Balenger 32 channel Equalizer with the feedback eliminator built in and I do find that when we use it my overall volume is cut-down requiring the amp to be turned up more. Regardless of what feedback eliminator you use you will most likely have to reset it once in a while. They tend to cut down your overall audio and cuts down more as you go along.
Does your reciever for your wireless mikes have any sensitivity controls? If so try turning that down a bit and have your singers hold the mike closer to their mouth. I use the Voco Pro wireless sets and can control this. We have been able to eliminate all except when someone points the mike directly at a speaker from close range. Nothing will kill that except education of your singers.

Thanks for your response Dale.
It is really trying to teach people to use the mikes properly, a lot of new singers seem to get shy and as soon as they hear their self they hold it further away, then I try and increase the volume and get the screech. Then others like to dance about and walk right up to the speaker.

Yes the receiver does have sensitivity control, I think I will play around with that a bit more.

[billyo]

Originally Posted by Roy Dennis

I have everything plugged into the mixer, from the mixer I usually use left channel to one speaker, right channel to other, sometimes I daisy chain depending on the location. Left & right channels to one speaker then output from that speaker to the input of the other one. they are on speaker stands. I can control the feedback by adjusting the high & low frequency or the gain on the Mic's on the mixing board.
It is just that I wondered if these Eliminators were any good, by your first answer I see you are not impressed with them.
If I don't get any positive responses to this I will dismiss the idea of using one.

Thanks for your response.

Roy.

sorry, i'm not really impressed with feedback eliminator, due to what i've seen from a fellow kj.. don't take my word for it.you can try it, if you buy one make sure to check the return policy, just incase you decided to return it..

[madjim- with the Lord]

Hey Roy,
Being able to run pro sound is one of my curse/blessings. I have never used a feedback eliminator because they basically do what you can do with your board and a good EQ. The first factor is like you said, getting the singer to keep the mic close to their mouth. The second factor like you said is teaching then to keep their back to the speaker. The third factor is the overall volume and the fourth factor is finding the frequenccy that is giving you feedback and turning it down on the main EQ.

Here is something you can do that will help. When you get set up, run a sound check. Have somebody stand in the worst place with the mic open and turn the overall (main) volume up some. This will kick up the feedback. Once the feedback is ringing, start pulling down the EQ faders on your main EQ (32 band if possible). When You find the frequency that is causing the feedback pull that fader down and pull the faders on either side of it down just a bit. After this is done you should be able to turn the main volume down to a resonable level and make your EQ adjustments on the channel EQ's to tweek it in. By doing this you are doing what the feedback eliminator does. Oh, when folks hear the feedback, be sure to announce that they are all now sterile. This always gets a chuckle.

I Hope This Helps

Jim

[Roy Dennis]

Thanks for your information Jim. I will do some experimenting over the next few days, see if I can pinpoint the worst frequencies. Save myself a few £ at the same time.

Roy.

[madjim- with the Lord]

All the feedback eliminator does is locate the problem frequency, turn it down then turn down. You still have to adjust the main volume and EQ on each channel to tweek it in. They don't pay for themselves IMHO.

Jim

[Lonman]

Problem is with the eliminators is that how it works is it senses frequency spikes basically over a certain threshold & will cut that frequency. Now what can happen is you get a powerful singer that can naturally create these spikes without it actually being feedback, but it will still cut those frequencies which actually starts harming the sound. The cheaper ones like the Behringer are pretty much worthless in this respect. There are others that are a little spendy that actually work well when set correctly. Sabine makes a decent one & dbx also has a pretty decent one.

A good 31 band eq can be very effective & along with Jim, the ringout of the system needs to be done 3-4 times until you are at the typical volume level you would be running. Also when pulling those frequencies down, I also pull down the 2 adjacent frequencies a smidge.

[Roy Dennis]

Thanks for your reply Lonman.
As the type I was looking at were at the cheaper end like Behringer I think with the replies Ive had so far I will forget about using one and follow yours and the others advise.

Roy.

[BooBoo]

You can get a good feedback eliminator that will do the job it was intended for. The features to look for are finding one that will detect the spike in the narrowest band possible, then release it after a short amount of time. This does not take the place of EQing, but is a tool to use with it and can help provide a cleaner sound at a higher level.

Small loud rooms can be tough. One thing to do is to put sound absorption behind the stage and would do a better job than an eliminator. Many times the same sound can bounce off the fore wall then back to the back wall and into the mic in time to create the feedback. Something on the wall behind the mic can help blunt a return to the mic.

Neither will help when someone points a mic into a speaker..

[billyo]

Originally Posted by BooBoo

You can get a good feedback eliminator that will do the job it was intended for. The features to look for are finding one that will detect the spike in the narrowest band possible, then release it after a short amount of time. This does not take the place of EQing, but is a tool to use with it and can help provide a cleaner sound at a higher level.

Small loud rooms can be tough. One thing to do is to put sound absorption behind the stage and would do a better job than an eliminator. Many times the same sound can bounce off the fore wall then back to the back wall and into the mic in time to create the feedback. Something on the wall behind the mic can help blunt a return to the mic.

Neither will help when someone points a mic into a speaker..

that would add more work for him, i mean carrying , placing and tearing down those sound absorption every place he plays...sound absorption would be good if you're playing in one steady place...

[BooBoo]

Seemed like he was having trouble at one venue. I'd ask the venue do it and it could help anyone that played there. Not possible if he backs up to the front window of course.. LOL

I had one place that was a sound nightmare and suggested they put something as simple as a curtain behind the stage, which was a brick wall. They added a thin, detatched, felt covered backdrop (probably with thin plywood frame) and it helped alot. I am sure the bands appreciated it too..

It also helped by providing a place to hang a banner.

[Roy Dennis]

Thanks for your input, but as Billyo said it would be a bit much walking into some of the bars I work and start putting up sound absorption.

I have started making notes in a little book of my maximum volume and mike settings for each bar and setting the gain controls to this before I start.(after a few times I should have this worked out) Then using my separate volume sliders so that even if I put a volume slider all the way up I should not get the feedback except in an exceptional case like someone walking right up to the speaker.

As all my jobs are set up and rip down when finished I don't like spending too long setting up. I have designed my system to be light and easy to set up so that most places I can be up and running in about 30-40 minutes including disco lighting all on my own, and at 67 years old I don't think I do too bad. Although I still usually arrive about an hour before I start just to be on the safe side and get a pint in first

Roy.

[billyo]

Originally Posted by Roy Dennis

Thanks for your input, but as Billyo said it would be a bit much walking into some of the bars I work and start putting up sound absorption.

I have started making notes in a little book of my maximum volume and mike settings for each bar and setting the gain controls to this before I start.(after a few times I should have this worked out) Then using my separate volume sliders so that even if I put a volume slider all the way up I should not get the feedback except in an exceptional case like someone walking right up to the speaker.

As all my jobs are set up and rip down when finished I don't like spending too long setting up. I have designed my system to be light and easy to set up so that most places I can be up and running in about 30-40 minutes including disco lighting all on my own, and at 67 years old I don't think I do too bad. Although I still usually arrive about an hour before I start just to be on the safe side and get a pint in first

Roy.

i hear yah Roy! i do the same thing, it takes me 1/2 hr.setting/ teardown
since all my gears are in a custom built roadcase that i built myself, i usually get in 1hr. before the show,since the karaoke room is separated from the other rooms i can do all the sound checks wihout bothering anybody..and by them i had just about enough liquid courage to get on goinggggg..