Trouble Reading SAV-A & P's

[Musicman51]

I have the 4.20 latest version of Microstudio. And i just noticed none of my SAV-A's will play correctly, and will not backup correctly, all garbled. I know Hoster hates the SAV-A & P's and i'm not too crazy about them either. But i never had this problem untill this upgrade. At least in hoster, just the title screen is garbled, you can still play the song. But in this version of MS, the who song is garbled. Anyone else have this problem? God Bless, George

[ddouglass]

George,
I checked a bunch of mine and no problem with any of them except for the title page of course. I have quite a lot of them which ones did you test? I can check them specifically.
Does the whole song look like the title page or is it different the way it garbles? Could you take a screen capture and post it here? Best way would be to save it from Paint as a JPG then it won't be so large a file.

[Musicman51]

I don't know how to do that..but yes it is pretty much exactly like the title page. Broken song lyrics. I tried several, SAVA10, 12, 13... none of them will display correctly. Whatcha' think? any suggestions? I of course tried several other brands, including the dreaded "Chartbuster". All is fine..hummm???? Good thing i caught this before i made a backup for my yard party show. I am not a big fan of the SAV series. But i still have the older folks that sing these old disc to death. Gotta have'em. George

Incidently, in ALL previous Microstudio versions, ALL SAV series CD's would display correctly for me, INCLUDING the title page.

[ddouglass]

For the Screen print, while the song is on the screen press Shift and the Print Screen key. Then open Paint (Start\Accessories\Paint) and click on Edit\Paste. Then do a Save As and save it as a JPG. You can then attach it (paperclip symbol up top) to a post here.
Are you using the discs & a player instead of the computer for your yard party? If the originals play in the player ok then the copies should also play ok. Apparently it is just your Microstudio that is having this problem. Microstudio has the same player as Hoster and the older versions of Hoster used to play them ok too. The modification was made (if memory hasn't failed me) to correct for DK discs that wouldn't play and this messed up the title page for the SAV discs. It has something to do with the interlaced graphics that they both use but they both don't use the same method.
That doesn't explain why your is completely garbled because SAV only uses that for their titles. The rest is just straight one pass graphics.
Are you playing directly from the disc or are you playing from your KMA files?

[billyo]

i just imported savp disc, to see if i get the same result but everything is working, even the tittle page is not garbled, i know that in hoster the tittle page is garbled , but the graphics are ok, in ms everything is working not garbled...

[billyo]

i guessed i have to take that back..this is what i found out, there are some song that are garbled, some are not, on some songs the first phrase will come out ok , 2nd phrase you can't read the lyrics, but when it starts sweeping the graphics will be readable...

[Musicman51]

Ok Dale and billyo, i think i have this figured out. Here are a few examples of my screens. I am taking the original CD+G's and putting them in my CD rom drive. These are not backup disc, these are the original disc. George

[ddouglass]

Are you playing them directly from the CD or are you importing them with Microstudio to play these examples?
This is not the same as the Title page as that is totally unreadable do to the way they interlace the graphic.
It looks to me like the discs may be getting scratched or slightly dirty. Try cleaning them before you play or import them.
One thing is if you import them with Microstudio (or Hoster) then MTU's error correction will catch most of this. You are aware that you can make copies from your KMA files too with Microstudio.
You don't need to re-import them into Microstudio to do that. Microstudio will convert KMA's, MP3+G, etc. into the correct format for burning to the disc.
Also if you do a "Duplicate Disc" I don't think that the error correction is set-up to work with that, so any dirt or scratches on the disc will create the same mistake on the new disc.

[Musicman51]

Thanks Dale, i don't have MicroStudio on the same laptop as my Hoster for one thing. Hoster is all by itself on my show laptop, and i do not go online with that laptop except for upgrades to hoster. These examples are right from inserting the actual original disc into the CD Rom tray, and clicking play. That simple. These were not like this on the last version of MS. Everything was fine all the way around untill this upgrade. I'm going to still...give this upgrade yet another chance before i dump it. Going back to tweeting. These disc are in prestine condition, as are all my CD+G's. Thanks George

[ddouglass]

Try importing a disk into Microstudio. That may clean it up. you could also copy some of your KMAs to a flash drive or CD and move them to that machine to see if they work ok.

[ddouglass]

Are your KMA files on the C: drive on the laptop or an external drive?

[ddouglass]

George, I never once said that the problem doesn't exist. I have seen your screen captures and yes you have a problem.
I have asked the other Beta Testers to attempt this and see if any of them have run into this problem. We'll see what they have and work from there to come up with something concrete for MTU to look at.
Bendrew obviously doesn't think the Beta Testers do anything. What you all don't see is the weeks and months that this small group of 15 - 20 people put in as we test and accept or reject what MTU puts forth after they have spent numerous manhours writing and testing themselves.
With the many hundreds of different computers, 2 operating systems, countless other programs people install and use, and all the security and other updates Microsoft is constantly releasing, there is no way for anyone to be able to say 100% sure that a program is going to work 100% on any computer in use by the users.
We do the best we can and for no pay. We are just users like you and we do it because we love the products and have been asked by MTU to help them out. We use our own equipment and all run shows of various types So we won't to see the best product go out because we depend on it to.
I promise you there has to be a solution. We just have to keep digging.

George, You said you keep up with the updates. Have you done any of the Hardware Updates through Microsoft? We have found that those updates are usually the incorrect driver or firmware?
You said "When it comes to the old SAV series, i have clear title and credit pages, and for some, lyrics that are nor garbled." Meaning you have some that are now garbled? I would suggest you Remove 4.006, clean outt the Microsoft Folder in Program Files and the Microstudio folder in the C:\MTU folder. Then re-install and check the box at the bottom of the Personal Information page (of the installation) to clear the registry entries. This should clear any thing left behind by 4.20. Billyo this would help if you are also still seeing some of the garbled lyrics.

[billyo]

Originally Posted by ddouglass

George, I never once said that the problem doesn't exist. I have seen your screen captures and yes you have a problem.
I have asked the other Beta Testers to attempt this and see if any of them have run into this problem. We'll see what they have and work from there to come up with something concrete for MTU to look at.
Bendrew obviously doesn't think the Beta Testers do anything. What you all don't see is the weeks and months that this small group of 15 - 20 people put in as we test and accept or reject what MTU puts forth after they have spent numerous manhours writing and testing themselves.
With the many hundreds of different computers, 2 operating systems, countless other programs people install and use, and all the security and other updates Microsoft is constantly releasing, there is no way for anyone to be able to say 100% sure that a program is going to work 100% on any computer in use by the users.
We do the best we can and for no pay. We are just users like you and we do it because we love the products and have been asked by MTU to help them out. We use our own equipment and all run shows of various types So we won't to see the best product go out because we depend on it to.
I promise you there has to be a solution. We just have to keep digging.

George, You said you keep up with the updates. Have you done any of the Hardware Updates through Microsoft? We have found that those updates are usually the incorrect driver or firmware?
You said "When it comes to the old SAV series, i have clear title and credit pages, and for some, lyrics that are nor garbled." Meaning you have some that are now garbled? I would suggest you Remove 4.006, clean outt the Microsoft Folder in Program Files and the Microstudio folder in the C:\MTU folder. Then re-install and check the box at the bottom of the Personal Information page (of the installation) to clear the registry entries. This should clear any thing left behind by 4.20. Billyo this would help if you are also still seeing some of the garbled lyrics.

Dale, we know that you guys ( Beta Testers ) are working real hard solving and helping us with our program problems and we commend you for that, since i removed 4.20 and re-installed 4.06 those garbled problems are gone, my only question is why would those disc work with 4.06 and wont work with 4.20, i havent installed nor did any changes on my pc, have all the updates ( custom ) and i dont do microsoft hardware/firmware updates...but anyway thanks for your non stop help..

[bendrew]

Dale. I have this problem with Hoster v4.08 and Microstudio v4.20. The Title are garbled but the lyrics are not and I never pay attention to it, just now that I want to contribute my opinion as to where I'm ok or fine with this program. First, I'm not happy with Hoster v4.08 and Microstudio is buggy too that I don't pay attention to it's problem. As, a user, I didn't use this program for free. I paid for the use of it. And If you want my true opinion about them is Those program are a piece of junk and full of trial and error. Without this forum, These software will not survive .I know, MTU don't want this things to happen but I rather prepare those old version than the new ones. The competition is tough, that's why before they release any version upgrade, they better fix it right.BTW, right nobody in my group who use Hoster and Microstudio are not going to upgrade. We are already testing another software which is more stable than this. I like Hoster/Microstudio for being easy to use, but it doesn't mean anything if it's not working properly. You look at the history of the upgrades and you will agree that most of them are buggy. This is only my observation and opinion... It's just a WAKE UP call.

[ddouglass]

Originally Posted by bendrew

Dale. I have this problem with Hoster v4.08 and Microstudio v4.20. The Title are garbled but the lyrics are not and I never pay attention to it, just now that I want to contribute my opinion as to where I'm ok or fine with this program. First, I'm not happy with Hoster v4.08 and Microstudio is buggy too that I don't pay attention to it's problem. As, a user, I didn't use this program for free. I paid for the use of it. And If you want my true opinion about them is Those program are a piece of junk and full of trial and error. Without this forum, These software will not survive .I know, MTU don't want this things to happen but I rather prepare those old version than the new ones. The competition is tough, that's why before they release any version upgrade, they better fix it right.BTW, right nobody in my group who use Hoster and Microstudio are not going to upgrade. We are already testing another software which is more stable than this. I like Hoster/Microstudio for being easy to use, but it doesn't mean anything if it's not working properly. You look at the history of the upgrades and you will agree that most of them are buggy. This is only my observation and opinion... It's just a WAKE UP call.

If your only garble problem is the Title pages then you don't have the same problem the other two do. This is a known Player problem and was a trade-off to get DK to work which many would not before this player change as seen by many posts in the past. It has to do with the graphic styles that DK and SAV use and the Interlace methods they use conflicting.
The main purpose of rewriting the player was to be able to add video files permanently to Hoster and add advanced features requested such as cross-fade. The old version would not support either of these functions.
I hope you find something that works for you and your group, but my opinion and I have perused a lot of the competition forums and I see more complaints in there than you have seen in here in a long time.
Good luck with the new software.

[bendrew]

Dale,, This is my last reply to this thread, and my question is "How come SAV And DKK works before and now no more without doing anything with the computer??. If they are changing something to cope with new additional features, why sacrifice ??? Is It true and better to follow the saying "why fix if it's not broken". My friends and I are user of this program, and without the user, these all software will not survive.. Look at what happen to Vista.....

[billyo]

Originally Posted by bendrew

Dale,, This is my last reply to this thread, and my question is "How come SAV And DKK works before and now no more without doing anything with the computer??. If they are changing something to cope with new additional features, why sacrifice ??? Is It true and better to follow the saying "why fix if it's not broken". My friends and I are user of this program, and without the user, these all software will not survive.. Look at what happen to Vista.....

we all know that hoster/ microstudio is not as perfect as we wanted to, i think this is because of all the feature request that some of us asked for, and for that there will always be a trade off,( i have said these i while back , that we are going to have a more sophisticated pc's/laptop in order to run those request.) in mtu's defence we don't have to do the upgrade everytime there is one, and if we do, and they wont work the way we wanted to, we can always go back to the older version that worls and wait till they come up with a solution, i have thought about trying other karaoke programs, but, i know of some kj's that uses those programs and they too have problems, at least in mtu, we have good people that can give/helps or at( least try )with a solution..

[mindonstrike]

Originally Posted by bendrew

... I like Hoster/Microstudio for being easy to use, but it doesn't mean anything if it's not working properly. You look at the history of the upgrades and you will agree that most of them are buggy. This is only my observation and opinion... It's just a WAKE UP call.

All software (if the authors are being truthfull) are "buggy" to one degree or another. Any software that manages to get all the bugs out and keep them out are simply not adding features or making changes because thats where they sneek in.

Many companies aren't going to advertise there bugs to their potential customers. Kudos to MTU for being honest and listing the good with the problems.

Some of those bugs that are listed in the upgrade history were never even seen by the public, They were caught by the beta-testers before it ever got released and many of the others were only experienced by a small number of people. With a very few exceptions most of the listed bugs were annoyances rather than major ptoblems.

So I would respectfully disaggree with your assesment.

Sam

[Musicman51]

"As i stated, i went back to my last update. Things are back to normal now."

Dale, i do not upgrade my hardware or firmware using microsoft...and i would not suggest anyone else do it either. And yes, i keep current on all windows and hardware updates. As i stated above i went back to my previous version. My Microstudio is now working better then those who have choosen to upgrade.

I believe both bendrew, and sam have valid points. bendrew, "junk" ...ummmm...might be just a tad bit harsh? But i do see some of your concerns as real. Dale, i never said that you didn't think i or others didn't have a legitimate problem. Please, with all due respect, please go back and reread what i posted.

Yes i and i am sure others know the hard work, long hours, time sacrifice and dedication our wonderful teams of beta testers put into the products we have come to depend on for our shows, and in alot of cases, our income. So dale, please don't assume you are the only one who needs these products to work correctly. We are all in the same boat, i just don't want to see it become a sinking ship.

Sam, anytime an "upgrade" has problems, it's more then an annoyance. It's a problem, no matter how minor it is.

Dale, you are speaking of yet another quick fix upgrade for hoster? i bet bendrew is setting there wondering what trade off we are going to have to endure now. I have been asked through the years when i was going to switch over to "Computer Karaoke. I waited, waited, waited, untill i knew mtu had all the bugs worked out of hoster. They, according to their website assured us they had. So, i finally took the plunge, invested big bucks in a laptop, 4 external drives, audio interface, s-video converters..the list goes on and on. Just to get garbled title and credit screens, and repeated "Quick Fix" upgrades. Now i have hoster running rather smoothly, just to find yet another upgrade. I know... i know... we don't have to upgrade. But, if it's free, and is an assured "fixed" and better operating version, who wouldn't? This is bendrews dilemma, and frankly i see his point.

Microstudio is a work tool for me, not a player, or just a way to backup my disc. So it must work correctly. This version does not. That is the long and short of it. So i went back to my pervious version, and i am happy with it. I have stayed with mtu for going on 10 years now, and i hope to be around another 10. However, perception is 90%. I recently visited a private karaoke forum, who did reviews of karaoke software and products. I contributed my experience with this upgrade of Microstudio, and sadly..had to give it a failing grade, and poor review. I will wait for at least two or three upgrades, before i try anotrher upgrade...but..i will try again.
I have faith in mtu, and in their products. I thank them for creating the best software in the business.
Respectfully George

The term upgrade refers to the replacement of a product with a newer version of that same product. It is most often used in computing and consumer electronics, generally meaning a replacement of hardware, software or firmware with a newer or better version, in order to bring the system up to date or to improve its characteristics.

Risks
Although upgrades are for the purpose of improving a product, there are risks involved—including the possibility that the upgrade will worsen the product. When software is upgraded, there is a chance that the new version (or patch) will contain a bug, causing the program to malfunction in some way or not function at all. For example, in October 2005, a glitch in a software upgrade caused trading on the Tokyo Stock Exchange to be shut down for most of the day^. Upgrades can also worsen a product subjectively. A user may prefer an older version even if a newer version is perfectly functioning.

[Wrahn]

I have four computers, three of which have the microstudio demo 4.20 installed and my new computer which has the full 4.20 program installed.
I'm not sure when I upgraded to 4.20, but I've just noticed that the title page on the SAV is not readable on all of my computers when played from the CD or when imported and played.

Even so, for Gee Wiz I used the demo copy of 4.20 in one computer to make a copy of some mixed tracks which included SAV and then played the copy on my JVC player and to my surprise the title pages were fine for all tracks. The copied disk still has the problem when playing on my computer, but seems to be able to copy for use in my JVC Karaoke Player.

Not sure if this helps the discussion or just adds s**t to the discussion.

Wes