Vogone 1 vs. 2

[mmumma]

I'm a brand new customer and just started using Vogone 2. I've spent a couple of hours messing around, and the problem I have is that I have never achieved a result using Vogone 2 that was as good as the result achieved when played with the Vogone 1 button. Since you cannot save the Vogone 1 processed song, is it possible that owning Vogone 2 entitles one to a "downgrade" of Vogone 1 as well? Or has everybody else managed to achieve results with Vogone 2 as good as or better than Vogone 1?

Mike

[admin]

We have only had this request one other time that I can remember.

Are you sure you are following the steps in the manual? If not, please go back and read them, then follow these steps. If you just play around, you will fail to obtain the results that Vogone 2 can deliver. I know. I failed for 3 internal releases while the product was being developed until our programmer showed me "the steps".

The "main" difference between Vogone 1 and 2, is that V2 has filters to allow defining the vocal frequency range, effectively creating a bandpass filter. By doing this, you separate the frequencies above and below the vocal range, and they will not be removed with the vocal range. These allow you to "put back" some of the music that Vogone 1 (and other Vocal Eliminator products) removes.

These filters are not present in V1, which can theoretically deliver a higher reduction of the main vocal. However, the actual amount of improvement with V1 over V2 is minor when the V2 controls are properly used. Of course, there will be some songs that blow away this statement.

We designed the V2 filters to be able to compute in real-time on a 350Hz processor (but not an AMD K6). Thus, we had to make some tradeoffs in the maximum quality it can deliver when removing the vocal defined area. Real-time performance allows you to hear their results while adjusting, which makes a world of difference.

We have subsequently continued work on our filter codes and have made improvements that should be superior to what is in Version 2.014. Our programmer got food poisoning on a trip to see his ailing Grandfather in Peru, which has stalled our developing a new Vogone version to test the new filters. I will say, even if we delivered filters that could obtain theoretical perfection, the resulting improvement will be slight. In essence, it will retain all the properties of V2 processing, and obtain the slightly superior results that V1 can give.

We have considered allowing the Vogone 1 button to be saved to a disk file, but all agreed that improving the filters is the right "engineering" approach. In fact, we expect to remove the Vogone 1 button and processing in the next release.

I am also considering adding a new processor button that would have ultimate performance filters. These would require a 1.0GHz processor (or higher) to run in real time. With this addition, we would also offer a "non-real-time" processing with the higher quality filters. This would run on any processor when writing the processed file to the hard drive. Then, we could really pull out the stops. The risk is that the sound in the file would be different from what is heard real-time, making it more difficult to control the output file.

If you have followed the steps in the manual for V2 and still want a copy of V1, email support@mtu.com with your request. However, FIRST make sure you are following the steps.

[mmumma]

Thank you for your response, and the detailed info about the functional differences between Vogone 1 and Vogone 2. I should also add that I've read through all the forum messages, and I think I have a reasonable idea about the expectations I should have about vocal removal.

I have been following the instructions as written in the manual. I guess maybe I need to keep trying. The problem seems to be with the "high" button. No adjustment makes the vocals much lower at all than the original, and therefore the finished product doesn't sound much different than the original. The "low" button works well, and I can eliminate most of the low frequencies easily. Is it normal for the high frequencies to remain? The songs I have been trying are studio recordings from an early-90's album by Frank Sinatra, but I guess it could have been remastered. Would that make a difference?

Thanks again for your prompt answer. Your support is excellent, as are your products!

Mike

[donn1954]

I have had the same experience as Mmummba thus far, and I, too, am following the instructions to the tee. I, too, have found that the "high" filter achieves the least. I, too, have found that comparing on Vogone 1 achieves much better vocal reduction. I have worked on the following songs:

Without You (from Rent)
They Can't Take That Away From Me (Sinatra's Reprise version)
I Get a Kick Out of You (same)
Once Upon a Time (same)

I, too, would like the option to write a CDG file using Vogone 1 if it happens to work better on a song than does Vogone 2.