Songs?

[WaltR]

I hope this post would be approiate here. I thought this would be interesting. I hear other KJ's stating that they have 250,000 songs and others that claim they have 10,000 songs. I am curious how many songs most KJ's actually have. I have about 13,000 songs and this includes duplications. If you would like to give your input I would appreciated it and I am curious. The reason this came up is that more and more I see KJ's without songbooks and they tell me they have to many songs to spend the time and money to make up songbooks.

Thanks,

Walt

[Skybird74]

You might want to post this under "Singers & Hosts Wisdom". This is for asking for HELP in using Hoster.

[Roy Dennis]

I moved this post to here as Skybird74 suggested

To give an answer. I have about 16,000 songs including duplicates.
I actually print books with only about 10.000 songs in them without duplicates but that is not because I have 6000 duplicates, it is to make the books more managable. I tell people if they can't find their favourite song just write Title and Artist and I'll do my best to find it.
It's not that often I can't find what they ask for.
But with downloaded tracks becoming legal (Legal in UK) and a lot of bars having WI-Fi connection, I can now search on line and download a track in the show if I need to.

[Lonman]

I have approx 13K non-duplicated titles that I print. With dups it's closer to 17K. I reprint every year. Update new section every week with new song purchases.

[Skybird74]

Hoster says there are @23,000 songs in the database now, but I can't tell how many songs I have 6 copies each of in various versions from different companies. I started buying disks in 1995 (I used cassettes for 2 years before that) and also have a set of converted Pioneer laserdisks besides several VCD's I bought when they first became popular. I still print books showing each version of every song I have. Singers can easily see if I have their preferred version without having to come up and ask me to look it up for them.

[WaltR]

Originally Posted by Skybird74

Hoster says there are @23,000 songs in the database now, but I can't tell how many songs I have 6 copies each of in various versions from different companies. I started buying disks in 1995 (I used cassettes for 2 years before that) and also have a set of converted Pioneer laserdisks besides several VCD's I bought when they first became popular. I still print books showing each version of every song I have. Singers can easily see if I have their preferred version without having to come up and ask me to look it up for them.

Thank you Skybird. This sounds more in line to what I was thinking. Chartbuster claims their library is about 12,000. I was curious because I have heard claims of 250,000 songs. I can't imagine that many songs being available.

Thanks,

Walt

[Skybird74]

Originally Posted by WaltR

Thank you Skybird. This sounds more in line to what I was thinking. Chartbuster claims their library is about 12,000. I was curious because I have heard claims of 250,000 songs. I can't imagine that many songs being available.

Thanks,

Walt

I wonder also if Chartbuster means they have 12,000 different songs. I have songs that may be on 3 different CB disks or 3 different SC disks, for example. The companies have gotten better over the years, but when I first started buying disks I frequently had to buy a disk where I already had 13 of the 15 songs in order to get 2 new songs. I think that's what made people want to start sharing back then. It got very expensive to pay the price of a new disk ($18-35) only to get 1 or 2 new songs, so I ended up telling singers that they would have to buy the disk themselves to get a particular song. And that's when there were only 3 or 4 companies that even made Karaoke disks.

[Roy Dennis]

Originally Posted by WaltR

Thank you Skybird. This sounds more in line to what I was thinking. Chartbuster claims their library is about 12,000. I was curious because I have heard claims of 250,000 songs. I can't imagine that many songs being available.

Thanks,

Walt

I was curious to chartbusters 12,000 songs claim because they supply a lot of their songs in two versions when you buy a disc 1-9 music only, 10-18 multyplex. so I was wondering if their 12,000 was 6000 of each.

[Skybird74]

Originally Posted by Roy Dennis

I was curious to chartbusters 12,000 songs claim because they supply a lot of their songs in two versions when you buy a disc 1-9 music only, 10-18 multyplex. so I was wondering if their 12,000 was 6000 of each.

Good point, Roy. I hadn't thought about that - the number in my database would include all the songs "with vocals" also, not just multiplex where you can turn the vocals on or off. I don't list those in my books. That's one of the good things also about Hoster's songbook - where you can hide what you don't want to show. Not so easy for people who use a separate program for their books. So, I have no idea exactly how many different songs I have.

[WaltR]

Originally Posted by Roy Dennis

I was curious to chartbusters 12,000 songs claim because they supply a lot of their songs in two versions when you buy a disc 1-9 music only, 10-18 multyplex. so I was wondering if their 12,000 was 6000 of each.

Good point. I haven't looked into it. That would be a bumer to make the purchase and find out you only got half of what you thought you were geting.

[RIKKI TIKKI]

Walt,

I have 13,950 songs in my database, I would guess about 11,000 of those are unduplicated...

I print the most popular songs in my song book, approx 4,000, and re-print about once a year, with deletions of songs not being sung, and additions of newer songs that have not been added to the larger directory, I have a "new song" area of my book in the back, that I normally update about once every month, and add them with my yearly reprint, if the clientele likes that version, and will cull any songs duplicated, after a little feedback from the clientele... keeping my books manageable in size, weight, and printing costs!

Your query as to how many songs a KJ has, and questioning the number available, and reference to 250,000 songs... I've known KJ's that have close to 100,000 songs listed on their flyers, advertising, etc. but when I asked if they are all legal versions, and that they have 1:1 song to disc ratio, all but 1 didn't know what I was talking about, and the one that did have a clue, probably had as many discs catalogued as I can remember seeing in one show... but as to 250,000 songs... it's about as illegal a hard drive(s) as you will find on e-bay, craigs list, etc. and can purchase for pennies on the dollar, compared to the KJ's with a legally licensed collection, and like most of us, have accumulated over several years in the business, and have spread out that expense over a number of years ( I used to have a business model, that showed/estimated that I paid about $2.00 / song )... show me a newbie to the business, with more than 10,000 songs in his repertoire, and I'll take odds that he has a pirated hard drive, that may or may not, be hurting your business locally, but has turned the industry into a mockery of fraudelent practices, by unscrupulous KJ's, with Multi-illegal systems, pirated hard-drives, and for the most part, trying to lowball their competition out of the business... these are the facts... we all know the good and bad KJ's around our areas of influence... and I deal with them above board, until they wish to compete for a job... and then I educate the club/bar owner/manager, about the risk of hiring a KJ that features an illegal library of songs, and license infringement, ASCAP, BMI representation... if that doesn't work there is always my loyal followers that have helped to keep me in business all these years... it's just getting tougher to make it as profitable with the economy, drinking laws, police presence, unscrupulous competition throwing you curve balls all the time nowadays...

[Lonman]

I know Sound Choice back a few years ago said they were at approx 12,000 + individual song titles total they have produced (not duplicated) - whether they were still available or not didn't matter.
I can bet that Chartbuster has about the same if not more. Those I know that have bought the 12K digital packs have stated there is very little duplication (maybe a handful of songs) that they've noticed.

[Lonman]

Not getting into legalities, if you took every manu, I can count at least 20 that I have. Figure each one of those produced at LEAST 5000 songs each (some have substantially more, some less) - there is 100,000 song titles, yes duplicates are going to be included. And those loaded drives often contain many foreign manus and foreign language songs as well, so there could easily be another 100,000 foreign songs - doesn't matter to the KJ who thinks they have everything if over say probably 80-85% of the all the music on the drive will NEVER be used, he can advertise it that he has that many.

[WaltR]

Originally Posted by RIKKI TIKKI

Walt,

I have 13,950 songs in my database, I would guess about 11,000 of those are unduplicated...

I print the most popular songs in my song book, approx 4,000, and re-print about once a year, with deletions of songs not being sung, and additions of newer songs that have not been added to the larger directory, I have a "new song" area of my book in the back, that I normally update about once every month, and add them with my yearly reprint, if the clientele likes that version, and will cull any songs duplicated, after a little feedback from the clientele... keeping my books manageable in size, weight, and printing costs!

Your query as to how many songs a KJ has, and questioning the number available, and reference to 250,000 songs... I've known KJ's that have close to 100,000 songs listed on their flyers, advertising, etc. but when I asked if they are all legal versions, and that they have 1:1 song to disc ratio, all but 1 didn't know what I was talking about, and the one that did have a clue, probably had as many discs catalogued as I can remember seeing in one show... but as to 250,000 songs... it's about as illegal a hard drive(s) as you will find on e-bay, craigs list, etc. and can purchase for pennies on the dollar, compared to the KJ's with a legally licensed collection, and like most of us, have accumulated over several years in the business, and have spread out that expense over a number of years ( I used to have a business model, that showed/estimated that I paid about $2.00 / song )... show me a newbie to the business, with more than 10,000 songs in his repertoire, and I'll take odds that he has a pirated hard drive, that may or may not, be hurting your business locally, but has turned the industry into a mockery of fraudelent practices, by unscrupulous KJ's, with Multi-illegal systems, pirated hard-drives, and for the most part, trying to lowball their competition out of the business... these are the facts... we all know the good and bad KJ's around our areas of influence... and I deal with them above board, until they wish to compete for a job... and then I educate the club/bar owner/manager, about the risk of hiring a KJ that features an illegal library of songs, and license infringement, ASCAP, BMI representation... if that doesn't work there is always my loyal followers that have helped to keep me in business all these years... it's just getting tougher to make it as profitable with the economy, drinking laws, police presence, unscrupulous competition throwing you curve balls all the time nowadays...

Rikki thank you so much for the input. I hear what you are saying. I appreciate your feedback.

Walt

[kedmison]

I started KJing part time back in 2000. Semi-retired from it in 2008. I just checked my records and since 2000, I have bought 1,044 discs. Paid $18,510.31 for those discs and have 11,328 songs (no duplicates) in my Hoster data base. Makes my stomach turn when I hear of those 250,000 songs!

But I'm not looking back over my shoulder either!

Kelly

[Lonman]

Originally Posted by kedmison

I started KJing part time back in 2000. Semi-retired from it in 2008. I just checked my records and since 2000, I have bought 1,044 discs. Paid $18,510.31 for those discs and have 11,328 songs (no duplicates) in my Hoster data base. Makes my stomach turn when I hear of those 250,000 songs!

But I'm not looking back over my shoulder either!

Kelly

But again figure probably 80% of their music will NEVER be used (foreign language and lots and lots of fluff) - maybe 500 songs will get done semi regularly (60 songs done in an avg 4 hour night), and they have MASSIVE duplication factors. In some of the places that i've seen that actually had a book with that size advertised, they had nearly every song dup'd 2-3 times each and a good majority dup'd massively (at least 10), who needs 20 copies of Friends In Low Places or 30 copies of The Rose? The high number is very common on the more popular songs that all manus would produce for their own core.

[Skybird74]

But I'm not looking back over my shoulder either!

Kelly

That's what scared me! I told people for 2 years around here not to advertise if they had 100,000+ songs or they were just asking for trouble. Everyone said I was just being paranoid. Sure enough, SC finally made it to Fla. and into our area last year. They made the rounds going from place to place & put 6 KJs out of business who didn't own a single disk. I have a few songs that friends asked me to copy from their disks just so they didn't have to carry it with them every week. So even though I only have a few songs like that, I was still concerned.

[Lonman]

Originally Posted by Skybird74

I have a few songs that friends asked me to copy from their disks just so they didn't have to carry it with them every week.

As long as your copies w/o discs don't go over 2% of your library (in case of an audit). If you got named, they'd still make you delete those. If over that mark, be prepared to pay.
Best thing is to see if you buy those same songs/versions for yourself or see if you can actually buy the discs from the singer. I have many singers that have sold - even given me discs so they didn't have to carry them anymore.

[Skybird74]

Yes, I knew all that. Why do you do you think I warned everyone

[Skybird74]

Originally Posted by Lonman

....or see if you can actually buy the discs from the singer. I have many singers that have sold - even given me discs so they didn't have to carry them anymore.

This is Florida. Singers come here from all over the country as well as from Europe, mostly Germany, year after year. They take their disks back home with them and sometimes don't have them the following year, and sing songs that no one else sings the rest of the year. Buying a disk to have 1or2 songs that only get sung while "snowbirds" are only here for the winter or just a couple weeks has not been cost-effective. Also,some of these songs I've had for 15 years already and they are no longer available for purchase.