Singers Spend No Money

[madjim- with the Lord]

What do you do when one of your rooms starts attracting a crowd of folks who drink water, don't eat and don't tip? (THEY SPEND NO MONEY!) They sure have fun but the room get full and the paying customers have no where to sit.


1. Is it time to start charging by the song?

2. Does the bar start charging $2 or more for a galss of water?

3. Do you pull one of the group members aside and say somthing?


Any suggestions would be appreciated.


Jim

[bryant]

Originally Posted by madjim

What do you do when one of your rooms starts attracting a crowd of folks who drink water, don't eat and don't tip? (THEY SPEND NO MONEY!) They sure have fun but the room get full and the paying customers have no where to sit.


1. Is it time to start charging by the song?

2. Does the bar start charging $2 or more for a galss of water?

3. Do you pull one of the group members aside and say somthing?


Any suggestions would be appreciated.


Jim

I have used #3 on a few ppl I see all the time, but usually they still don't get it, and don't have anything to spend, and I know the owner knows that too, it's usually the bartenders that get tipped well by "his" regular "big spenders". If they don't get to sing they may not stay or may not return. So you really can't blame the bartender for trying to get the hosts to respect the ppl that "pay" the cover charge and beyond.

Charging by song would never work in this area as the drinkers who already spend enough there would have good right to complain and go elsewhere.

They have bottled water they charge for here, but probably would not charge for water as most places are also serve food where I play and water in a glass is expectd free. It's really tough decisions to make here but the world as we know depends on varaiety, and this is all part of it.

In other posts, I've read complaints about drunks (the ones who pay for being there, the opposites). So I guess you have to have both.

[mindonstrike]

Put up a "No Loitering" sign. If they aren't paying customers, they are loitering.


One bar I used to work had a problem with a large group of water drinkers (we nicknamed them the water brigade) about 8 of them would sing, the bar put up with it until paying customers complained they had to wait an extra 30-40 minutes per round for people who didn't support the bar. The bar finally let them know they couldn;t sing anymore.

My personal philosophy is that it's not my job to dictate who is worthy of singing and who is not. The bar pays me to play and that's what I do. It's the bars job to tell people they can't participate. If the bar wants to point out specific people to not allow to participate I will abide by their wishes, other than that I refuse to be the bad guy (in these situations anyhow)

Sam

[madjim- with the Lord]

Originally Posted by bryant

In other posts, I've read complaints about drunks (the ones who pay for being there, the opposites). So I guess you have to have both.

Bottled water, hummmm I may suggest that. The grass is never greener on the other side, it's the same color.

Thanks Bryant

Jim

[madjim- with the Lord]

Originally Posted by mindonstrike

My personal philosophy is that it's not my job to dictate who is worthy of singing and who is not. The bar pays me to play and that's what I do. It's the bars job to tell people they can't participate. If the bar wants to point out specific people to not allow to participate I will abide by their wishes, other than that I refuse to be the bad guy (in these situations anyhow)

Sam

Sam,
I agree with you 100%. I like Bryant's bottled water idea, may suggest it.

They are young collage freshmen, too young to drink. I've been working with this place for so long that it hurts to see this happen. On the other side these folks will be in Valdosta for the next four years and will be old enough to drink one day. Gotta keep an eye on my market.

Catch 22 big time!

Jim

[Lonman]

We have that problem on occasion. Usually it doesn't turn into a problem, but they do not give any free refills anymore, charge for all drinks - including water. If someone is not drinking they are asked to leave at the bartenders discression.
I have made the suggestion to several in the past & have actually seen it in action at a couple places.
$5 token purchased at the door. It's not a cover charge as this token can be redeemed for $5 in either food or drink. The ones that were planning on spending money don't gripe because they get their $5 back to buy their drinks. The water sippers have at least paid SOMETHING to be able to sit & sing. Yes it may drive them away - but a non-spender is taking up a potential spenders seat, or it may get them to start buying a little more.

[marklwood]

Hey Jim, as you know I am responsible for both sides of the coin, literally. As a bar owner, I do charge $1 for bottled water that costs me about $0.25. That still is only a $0.75 profit, but at least they are contributing something (no cover charge).

As the KJ I try to treat them the same as everyone else when it comes to rotation and such. BUT, I do keep a tight leash on them when it comes to the rules of the bar and my equipment.

Also, when they complain about this, that, or the other, or tell me "what you NEED to do is...." I ask them to step in to my shoes for a minute. What is the smart business decision here? How much money or time should I invest in you. What is the return on that investment? I am very happy for you to be able to come out and sing, but consider my business model. I provide a place to come, a clean restroom, A/C and heat, a place to set, people to wait on you (that you never tip), and karoke 6 nights a week. Now again I ask you, how much more $$ or time should I invest in you?

I am never accusitory or threatening. I am a very soft spoken guy (unless you make me mad) I just very nicely talk to them about how a business survives. If you don't continue to make a profit, you will die. Do you like coming here? I like having you, but I still need to pay the bills. How about this, next time I need to re-do the books, will you help me put them together? How about cleaning and fixing the ones we have now? How about instead of tipping the waitress, you help her out by emptying ash trays, or picking up empty glasses. Maybe you can help me by finding out who keeps writing on the bathroom walls or punching holes in them. You can still contribute without spending any $$.

I have found that if you are unhappy with someone, talking to them honestly is the best way to get it resolved. Maybe there is some kind of compromise or understanding you can come to.

If all else fails, beat the hell out of them

[madjim- with the Lord]

Originally Posted by marklwood

If all else fails, beat the hell out of them

Ha ha ha ha ha.......

Jim

[RailMom]

Originally Posted by Lonman

We have that problem on occasion. Usually it doesn't turn into a problem, but they do not give any free refills anymore, charge for all drinks - including water. If someone is not drinking they are asked to leave at the bartenders discression.
I have made the suggestion to several in the past & have actually seen it in action at a couple places.
$5 token purchased at the door. It's not a cover charge as this token can be redeemed for $5 in either food or drink. The ones that were planning on spending money don't gripe because they get their $5 back to buy their drinks. The water sippers have at least paid SOMETHING to be able to sit & sing. Yes it may drive them away - but a non-spender is taking up a potential spenders seat, or it may get them to start buying a little more.

I've never heard of the token idea, but it sounds like a GREAT one! Jim, I'm a soda drinker, with the VERY seldom alcoholic drink. HOWEVER, I tip the bartender for EVERY cola I get!! (I usually will order at least one appetizer or dish - if food is served.) I'm always respectful to the server. Because I do understand that owners and their employees need to make money and they aren't there for S&G. Now, I have been at places that require a "minimum" per person, and it's usually a small number like five or ten dollars. As a customer, if I TRULY like the establishment and the show, then I don't mind spending the minimum. I'd gladly spend it in show of support. If people complain, then they really just don't get it, and you don't want them any way. But, I find that I've never had a problem with a bar or the staff because I can down a good 10-15 colas in a 4-6 hour show!

Now, marklwood, I'd be interested in your thoughts on customers like myself. Because I've been to bars where the owner has said something because I don't buy ALCOHOL. I've even "accepted" alcoholic drinks from men and passed them over to a friend because I want them to make money. But, soda and food cost money too... so I guess I don't see what the problem is. I understand that more money is made from alcohol, but the mandatory alcohol is a ludicrous rule! What do you think?

[ddouglass]

Originally Posted by Railmom

But, I find that I've never had a problem with a bar or the staff because I can down a good 10-15 colas in a 4-6 hour show!

Wow, I thought I was the only one who drank that much soda!!

We do our shows at a VFW that does not limit their clientele to members only, because they are only 1 of 2 places in the area for people to go to for entertainment. We have one entire family group of singers who come in every Friday and Saturday night. Only one or two of them drink the rest drink water.

[marklwood]

Originally Posted by RailMom

Now, marklwood, I'd be interested in your thoughts on customers like myself. Because I've been to bars where the owner has said something because I don't buy ALCOHOL. I've even "accepted" alcoholic drinks from men and passed them over to a friend because I want them to make money. But, soda and food cost money too... so I guess I don't see what the problem is. I understand that more money is made from alcohol, but the mandatory alcohol is a ludicrous rule! What do you think?

I would welcome a customer like you. I have a couple that come in and do exactly what you talk about. They are good for a couple of cokes and a couple of appetizers every time they come in. They don't get drunk and stupid and they respect the bar and the equipment. Even a customer that at least takes care of the waitress is fine by me. It is only the ones who spend no money AND make demands or complain that bother me. I am usually at capacity 4 out of 6 nights a week and it still doesn't bother me. All I really want is for everyone to have a good time. As long as they don't impede that, then everything is A-OK with me.

Edit: Yes, I believe a mandatory alcohol purchase is not only ludicrous, it may be illegal in some states. In Missouri that would be an enticement to drink and would cost me my liquor license.

BTW, I don't drink either. I used to, but I found people who drink tend to make bad decisions when they drink.

[KaraokeDj38030]

I to am Guilty of drinking THE DEW when doing a show however I always tip the waitress or bartender, I just believe I run a better shw sober!! I tryed to do a shows in my drinking days and it ended up being a big ole' mess, mixed up rotation and so on, anyway alot of the bars around these areas have switched from tap to bottle and if the customer presit on tap there is still a .50 cent charge for each cup of water. If the club or bar isn't making money neither am I.
now when I go to another persons show I can indulge a little and have a few drinks cause I am not running the show and always always leave my drink at the table, I just can't stand when a person brings their drink up to the stage with them, Makes me nervous!!! As far as dealing with customers not spending we have a Two drink Limit so they either have to drink a pop, beer, or bottle of water twice. Make things easier on the bar owner I am sure.

[bryant]

Originally Posted by RailMom

I understand that more money is made from alcohol

A lot more, a really lot more, at least in Maine.

[marklwood]

Just a quick economics lesson for you all.

A bar operates on a basic economics principal.

You have fixed costs like rent, utilities, minimum staffing, entertainment, and license fees, advertising, building repair and maintenance.
This gives you a break even cost for every day. (mine is $300)

Now you take your sales and remove the cost of the goods you sell, the taxes on those goods, and the waste. That gives you a minimum break even sales for the day. (mine is $450)

Now take your seating capacity and divide your sales by that. (Mine is 85)
That means if I am at capacity, I need each person to spend $5.29 just to break even.

After all this you can see what your profit will be on a daily basis. (mine is about 40% of sales over $450.

I am lucky enough to be a pretty low maintenance guy. I don't need new cars of fancy toys. I pride myself on finding the best deals on anything I buy. But you can see where some owners may have a different view. They may think they need that $500 a month car payment, that $30k Harley, or that $50k pontoon boat. Worrying about those kind of bills every day can put a lot of stress on people. This may cause them to lose any sense of community or fairness. Desperate people do desperate things. I had an uncle who was a very successful business man used to say, "business is business" while he was screwing people. I guess I never learned that lesson.

[madjim- with the Lord]

Originally Posted by marklwood

I had an uncle who was a very successful business man used to say, "business is business" while he was screwing people. I guess I never learned that lesson.

Mark,
That was a good day to skip school.

Jim

[marklwood]

Frances,

When did you post the pic? I was reading and was a little freaked out when I came across your picture. I was sitting in the EXACT SAME POSE and I thought you were watching me

[KaraokeDj38030]

Originally Posted by marklwood

Frances,

When did you post the pic? I was reading and was a little freaked out when I came across your picture. I was sitting in the EXACT SAME POSE and I thought you were watching me

I am learning how to do a few more thing little by little in the forums I posted this one earlier tonight. However I am Still a Dew Drinker to keep it in the thread lol Charge For Water we Do In Tennessee.

Btw how far is Joplin from the Tennessee Border always looking for a good place to go when I have a night off and if I only have to travel a couple of hours would love to drop in at one of your shows. I am familiar with Cape And Sikston, Popular Bluff and Dexter Areas. But have never found anything remotely entertaining in that area HUMMM light Bulb moment!!! Never mind lost it again.

[marklwood]

I'm on the other side of the state from you. (SW corner) I favor the Dew also, only the diet variety.

In keeping with the thread though, another annoyance is the people who don't clap for everyone else. I can't think of any reason not to clap. Either they did a great job and you enjoyed the performance, or you are happy it's over!!

[laddie]

This happens so much in this area, that many bars stopped doing karaoke.
One bar I worked at had a neat solution. For every $4.00 you spent the bar would give you a ticket. The ticket was good for one song. No one complained. The tickets were only good for the one night. But you could give your tickets to someone else. I collected the ticket when they came up to sing... No ticket, no sing....

Still had the water drinkers, but they bought more food or sodas or they sang one song and left, either way the bar was happy..

[danny_g]

Originally Posted by madjim

Sam,
I agree with you 100%. I like Bryant's bottled water idea, may suggest it.

They are young collage freshmen, too young to drink. I've been working with this place for so long that it hurts to see this happen. On the other side these folks will be in Valdosta for the next four years and will be old enough to drink one day. Gotta keep an eye on my market.

Catch 22 big time!

Jim

If they are too young to drink then they are too young to sing. In my area the bar can be shut down for serving underaged people. My bartenders always card any newcomer to make sure they are old enough to be there.