New place to gig on Thursday, but Sun/Tue. bar owner doesn't seem to like the idea.

[bryant]

Whatya you guys think?
Here's the scenario: I host a karaoke show on Sundays and tuesdays at bar #1 and do quite well on both nights, e.g., plenty of returning regulars with new ppl coming in as well., Been there 5 years and get along well with the owner and bartenders. Here comes the fun.
A bar #2 opens up down the street and thinks they would like to try karaoke on Thursday nights. They hire me. Bar #1 has its hiphop night on Thursdays. No issue there. The bar #1 owner calls me aside last night and this is what he says. "Bryant, how are things going down the road on Thursdays?" I tell him "too early to tell only been there three weeks, but sorta slow now." He then asks me "If you don't mind me asking how much are they paying you?" I tell him about the same, as I get the same pretty much in all my gig joints. He goes on to say that he thinks now that there is another place for his Sunday and Tuesday crowds to attend the same thing on Thursday's down the street, that it spreads out the wealth a little thin, as some of his crowd may choose to go down the road on Thursdays instead of coming to his bar #1 on Sundays or Tuesdays, therefore, possibly shringking his take a little. Sort of "spreading things out too thin", and it would be only fair that if this being the case, that I should be paid a little bit less at his place (bar #1). Let's see how it all plays out, he says, and in the future we may have to have another conversation and talk about this.
What is going on here, and have you guys run into this sorta thing at all? What would you suggest I might say to him if we ever do have "that other conversation"?

[Lonman]

Yeah ok. Sorry Bar 1, this is my price & that is what you pay. Bar 2 pays the same amount as does any other bar that hires me.
Only way I would consider any kind of discount is if it was a back to back night where I did not have to break down any equipment and could leave it all set up. In that case I personally do offer a 10% discount off of each additional night from the original price - so if I did two nights at $150 regular night, back to back, the bar would only pay $135 for the 2nd night so instead of $285 for both nights - not a huge discount, but something - with more days the savings is a little more.
But wouldn't consider it just because Bar 1 thinks that bar 2 might take some of his crowd on a night he didn't want to offer karaoke. Especially if it's a hip hop night, completely differently clientelle - at least in my experience.

[marklwood]

Good question. I have been on the other side of this very thing. I had a DJ that worked for me for 7 years start doing Sundays at another bar.(I am closed Sundays) The problem I had was with that particular bar owner. He was constantly bad mouthing me around town and even went so far as to call the fire department on me because he thought I had too many people on my busiest day of the year (St Pat's Day). It didn't work, but pi**ed me off.

After that incident, I asked my DJ nicely if he would consider not doing karaoke for him. While I didn't give him an ultimatum, his refusal to discontinue wheighed heavily on me for a long time. 3 months later, when he asked me for a bump in pay, I took the opportunity to cut my costs and decided to take over the KJing full time. I respected his right to continue doing karaoke for my competition, but when push came to shove, I had to weigh his commitment to me in the decision. I am not saying that this is what will happen to you, I just wanted to share my own experience from the other side.

[marklwood]

PS The bar in question didn't even last 6 months before his electric got shut off and he got evicted.

[bryant]

Originally Posted by Lonman

Yeah ok. Sorry Bar 1, this is my price & that is what you pay. Bar 2 pays the same amount as does any other bar that hires me.
Only way I would consider any kind of discount is if it was a back to back night where I did not have to break down any equipment and could leave it all set up. In that case I personally do offer a 10% discount off of each additional night from the original price - so if I did two nights at $150 regular night, back to back, the bar would only pay $135 for the 2nd night so instead of $285 for both nights - not a huge discount, but something - with more days the savings is a little more.
But wouldn't consider it just because Bar 1 thinks that bar 2 might take some of his crowd on a night he didn't want to offer karaoke. Especially if it's a hip hop night, completely differently clientelle - at least in my experience.

Thanx, Lon. I actually do leave all my stuff there safely (less than a mile from home) and have no set up on Tuesday. But, it's been that way for five years and that had already been considered in the price way back in the beginning.

I think he figures two nights of karaoke is enough there anyway, he just seems to think that some of his Sun/Tue night crowd may want to come over the new place and sing on Thursday, having less money for them to spend on Sun/Tue as they did before Thursday opened up for me.

[bryant]

Originally Posted by marklwood

Good question. I have been on the other side of this very thing. I had a DJ that worked for me for 7 years start doing Sundays at another bar.(I am closed Sundays) The problem I had was with that particular bar owner. He was constantly bad mouthing me around town and even went so far as to call the fire department on me because he thought I had too many people on my busiest day of the year (St Pat's Day). It didn't work, but pi**ed me off.

After that incident, I asked my DJ nicely if he would consider not doing karaoke for him. While I didn't give him an ultimatum, his refusal to discontinue wheighed heavily on me for a long time. 3 months later, when he asked me for a bump in pay, I took the opportunity to cut my costs and decided to take over the KJing full time. I respected his right to continue doing karaoke for my competition, but when push came to shove, I had to weigh his commitment to me in the decision. I am not saying that this is what will happen to you, I just wanted to share my own experience from the other side.

Thanx a lot Marklewood, interesting point of view and I've been thinking about that. i have done a lot of extras for this owner in the past as far as trying to get new ppl in there, boast up his restauraunt for him, etc. utilize his big screens, show videos, slide shows, etc. The crowd brags to him about all that stuff about me too. I did tell him I didn't want to do anything to ruin the fine working relationship we had had together. The new place does seem to be copying some of his routine stuff too, got a few of his bouncers there, gets the jager girls in (whoever they are), etc. He doesn't think the new place will do any real damage or even be around a long time, and hasn't really given me any ultimatums other than simply mention that he may have to offer less because of a thinned out crowd.

I'm just thinking "Geesh,hasnn't he appreciated all the extra effort (things) I've done to make his Sunday and Tuesday nights the fun place to be here in Central Maine.

[Joe Nieves]

Originally Posted by bryant

Whatya you guys think?
What is going on here, and have you guys run into this sorta thing at all?

What would you suggest I might say to him if we ever do have "that other conversation"?

Chances are that the more time you wait for the second conversation the less bargaining chips you'll have at the table.

This is your opportunity to claim or lose a favoable outcome for you, My opinion I would ask him for the additional nights at the regular rate.

He rather have you then the other guy he doesn't know, so show him some gratis for his bithday party or something to seal the deal.

Seems to me he deserves something for the years, and so do you...


Good Luck
Joe.....

[bryant]

Originally Posted by Joe Nieves

Chances are that the more time you wait for the second conversation the less bargaining chips you'll have at the table.

This is your opportunity to claim or lose a favoable outcome for you, My opinion I would ask him for the additional nights at the regular rate.

He rather have you then the other guy he doesn't know, so show him some gratis for his bithday party or something to seal the deal.

Seems to me he deserves something for the years, and so do you...


Good Luck
Joe.....

He did not even state there would definitely be a second conversation. He simply stated that he thought I may have to take a slight cut in pay if He thinks I draw his customers to another bar on another night where I am working at the other bar. There is NO other guy. There is a Thursday night that he just opened upstairs in his restauraunt, but he is using his current downstairs DJ that he knows very well. He doesn't plan on making any ultimatums such as getting rid of me on the two nights that I do play now (he only mentioned a possible future cut in pay for those nights). I am already working at bar #2 ( a different bar down the street) for the same rate on Thursday.

[Joe Nieves]

Hey Bryant

He obviously sees a problem with this arrangement, so talk to him about the options to fix it in your favor and see what happens on the plus side for you... More Days....Mooore money...you can do...it.

After all you are making more money.


Joe...

[bryant]

Originally Posted by Joe Nieves

Hey Bryant


After all you are making more money.
Exactly, , he doesn't think that much will come out of the new bar down the street, anyway.

Joe...

.

[Joe Nieves]

Hey Bryant

Fear Factor is setting in or nothing would have been said...hmmmm

But that depends on you and how you deal with this opportunity in your favor.

Good Luck

Joe....

[marklwood]

Joe is a pretty smart cookie here. I would go with the bud nippin' theory. You, as a red blooded American should be, are always looking for an opportunity to increase your revenue just like the bar owner. If he can find some way to make up that extra $$ by either making you an exclusive, or letting you do that other night for him instead, that should make you both happy. If not, is there some other parameter that is acceptable to him, but doesn't keep you from seeking additional income? If my DJ had come to me with a proposal like that, I probably would have given him that bump in pay to keep him away from my competition.

[billyo]

loyalty will only take you so far, if he thinks he's losing revenue by you doing other nights on diff. place, asked him to have you do other nights, fri-sat. would be the best nights in my opinion.and if he doesn't like it, then maybe you could asked the other guy to let you do sun/tue.

[Joe Nieves]

Yep, you don't give up the one in your hand for two in the bush., or in this case, two in the hand for one in the bush!!!!

Hmmm? am I making sense here....

Joe....

[Musicman51]

Far be it from me to give advice of this type. But i have been at my present club 6 years, and see no chance of leaving any time soon. With that being said, out of loyalty, i personally wouldn't dream of taking a job down the street. My off night or not. I know some guys are into this for the money and money only. But something i personally wouldn't do. I work yard parties, graduations, weddings, that type of thing on my off nights. But i'd never think of giving my own club competition. And that is actually what you're doing.

I bet it is spreading the profits of your regular bar a little thin. This apparently bothers your boss of 5 years. If thats the case, don't worry about who benefits, dump the second job, and show loyalty in return, to the guy who showed you loyalty for 5 years. Hip hop night or not. He is still running entertainment those nights. Lets hope he just doesn't decide to boost his hip hop night by cutting back on karaoke to do it. Good luck whatever you decide.

[billyo]

Originally Posted by Musicman51

Far be it from me to give advice of this type. But i have been at my present club 6 years, and see no chance of leaving any time soon. With that being said, out of loyalty, i personally wouldn't dream of taking a job down the street. My off night or not. I know some guys are into this for the money and money only. But something i personally wouldn't do. I work yard parties, graduations, weddings, that type of thing on my off nights. But i'd never think of giving my own club competition. And that is actually what you're doing.

I bet it is spreading the profits of your regular bar a little thin. This apparently bothers your boss of 5 years. If thats the case, don't worry about who benefits, dump the second job, and show loyalty in return, to the guy who showed you loyalty for 5 years. Hip hop night or not. He is still running entertainment those nights. Lets hope he just doesn't decide to boost his hip hop night by cutting back on karaoke to do it. Good luck whatever you decide.

this is just my opinion, about loyalty, its a 2 way, bryant in his case, he should be able to play anywhere in his days off, be it across the street or or half a mile away, if bar#1 wants him that bad and doesn't want him to play in bar#2, in my opinion if i were bar#1 i would either give him a boost on his pay and i'll add those 2 days at my bar.

[Joe Nieves]

You do have the right to make the extra money on your days off, but then their are consequences and conflict of interest involve here (Bar #2 being so close), so cash in your chips and strike the best deal with Bar #1.

Good Luck,
and may the karaoke gods be with you..

Joe.....

[Musicman51]

Exactly what Joe said..... I sure wish i had the command over the queens english like most of you have. That is exactly what i was trying to put across..thanks Joe.

[Roy Dennis]

Originally Posted by Musicman51

Far be it from me to give advice of this type. But i have been at my present club 6 years, and see no chance of leaving any time soon. With that being said, out of loyalty, i personally wouldn't dream of taking a job down the street. My off night or not. I know some guys are into this for the money and money only. But something i personally wouldn't do. I work yard parties, graduations, weddings, that type of thing on my off nights. But i'd never think of giving my own club competition. And that is actually what you're doing.

I bet it is spreading the profits of your regular bar a little thin. This apparently bothers your boss of 5 years. If thats the case, don't worry about who benefits, dump the second job, and show loyalty in return, to the guy who showed you loyalty for 5 years. Hip hop night or not. He is still running entertainment those nights. Lets hope he just doesn't decide to boost his hip hop night by cutting back on karaoke to do it. Good luck whatever you decide.

I agree with Musicman51, I think you are rather fortunate to have had a 2 nights a week for 5 years at the same establishment.
It is perfectly alright to work else ware but not if it is in direct competition with your regular gig.
Just my opinion.

Roy.

[billyo]

Originally Posted by Joe Nieves

You do have the right to make the extra money on your days off, but then their are consequences and conflict of interest involve here (Bar #2 being so close), so cash in your chips and strike the best deal with Bar #1.

Good Luck,
and may the karaoke gods be with you..

Joe.....

this is just for the sake of conversation, my question is why would there be a conflict of interest? lets say i work for Ford. Co. assembly line installing break lines, and on my days off i work for GM doing the same thing, are you teling me that since i work for GM on my days off you'll cut my pay, if i were the Ford Co. i will ask you to work on your days off, same pay,no overtime pay,and i'll get more break work done..thats what i'm saying if bar#1 doesnt want Bryant to do those days in bar#2, Bryant should ask to have Thurs.added to his tue/sun gig.iIf Bryant is bringing in more people on tue/sun gig, then he might have the same people on thur. that means more revenue on those days.for bar #1