rate of pay around the country.

[bryant]

Okay, here in Central Maine, from what I've seen as in most of all Maine, DJ's, KJ's, VJ's that do bars seem to get somewhere between 100 and 200 dollars, even on weekend nights. This does not include the pay for those occasional "special" event things like birthday parties, weddings, functions, etc., just repeat weekly bar work.

I like to think that my minimun wage is 150 dollars, weekday or not. I started at 100 on a Sunday night a year ago at this place to get him started (new bar in town, where there is already too many) when I told him my goal was to work towards my minimum of 150.
Three months later we spoke and he wanted to be incremental about it and gave me 125. Then the summer came and I told him I couldnt work weekday nights anymore when the next school season begins, as I am a teacher, and he said I could pack up at 12:30, leave my stuff on stage and worry about it the next day. I live less than a mile away. All I have to do the next day is tear down and put stuff offstage as my equip. stays in the building. Then I asked if I was worth the 150 I originally spoke about. He said yes. So I figured that was a decent gig and could still get up in the morning and go to school to teach w/o killin' myself.

Now the question?
He recently offered me Monday and Tuesday too. He said that Monday would only be a DJ night for a few hours while a small crowd is there. How busy can a Monday night get in Maine, right. He also said, while you're here feel free to help your self to a few drinks or eats (also a restaurant).

How much do you think I should accept (total amount)for that guaranteed three night gig (max = 4 hrs a night and 2 on Monday), get home at 12:30 leave my stuff on stage all nights and simply move off stage to side on Wed. afternoon?

I'll tell you the last conversation we had after I hear from some of you. Please advise, however.

[kilith]

Originally Posted by bryant

Okay, here in Central Maine, from what I've seen as in most of all Maine, DJ's, KJ's, VJ's that do bars seem to get somewhere between 100 and 200 dollars, even on weekend nights. This does not include the pay for those occasional "special" event things like birthday parties, weddings, functions, etc., just repeat weekly bar work.

I like to think that my minimun wage is 150 dollars, weekday or not. I started at 100 on a Sunday night a year ago at this place to get him started (new bar in town, where there is already too many) when I told him my goal was to work towards my minimum of 150.
Three months later we spoke and he wanted to be incremental about it and gave me 125. Then the summer came and I told him I couldnt work weekday nights anymore when the next school season begins, as I am a teacher, and he said I could pack up at 12:30, leave my stuff on stage and worry about it the next day. I live less than a mile away. All I have to do the next day is tear down and put stuff offstage as my equip. stays in the building. Then I asked if I was worth the 150 I originally spoke about. He said yes. So I figured that was a decent gig and could still get up in the morning and go to school to teach w/o killin' myself.

Now the question?
He recently offered me Monday and Tuesday too. He said that Monday would only be a DJ night for a few hours while a small crowd is there. How busy can a Monday night get in Maine, right. He also said, while you're here feel free to help your self to a few drinks or eats (also a restaurant).

How much do you think I should accept (total amount)for that guaranteed three night gig (max = 4 hrs a night and 2 on Monday), get home at 12:30 leave my stuff on stage all nights and simply move off stage to side on Wed. afternoon?

I'll tell you the last conversation we had after I hear from some of you. Please advise, however.

I guess if you want to quote him on a price it would depend on how busy the bar is during the days you are working there. If you are brining in a very nice croud then really you should get a decent profit. If it is only 10 people in the bar then yeah 100 to 150 a night is a good price. However if it is 30+ people in the bar on them nights take 30 people * $2.00 a beer (it is like 3 to 4 here so I am giving a very decent low price on beer) and that is $60. If you then play 4 hours that is $240.00 but we all know people drink more then 1 beer an hour. So throw in 2 beers an hour and that is $480.00 and yes that is a very big profit for a small bar.

So if you get $150 a night and he wants to add 2 more nights I would maybe go with $375? That would be like 125 a night and you also have your foot in the door pretty well it seems and you are giving him a small deal for having you there more then 1 night a week. I used to do a 3 night a week Thursday, Friday, Saturday and charged $200, $250 and $250 but cut $100.00 off because of being there 3 nights so i was making $600 for a Thursday, Friday, Saturday night. If you want to stick to your 150 a night which is $450.00 and take off $75 I think he should take it. If you make it sound like they are getting a deal and $75.00 is a lot of money to a bar they are more likely to say oh I am saving money so why not. Even if it is $325 - $350.00 for all three nights I think you would still make out pretty decent and it is a for sure job.

I do mine by hour. I charge $70.00/hr and if they go 5 hours I drop off $50 and charge $300.00 if they do 2 nights I drop off another $100.00 and charge $500.00. I then also get free drinks on top of that. Even though I mainly drink Mountain Dew lol. A beer here or there but not often.

[alanross]

bryant,
kilith asked the right question... how much money is the bar making on the nights you're there? If you're bringing people into the place, you deserve to get your best rate.

If the owner asked you for the extra nights at a discount, then you should consider how much to discount. If he just asked for the two extra nights - why on earth would you be the one to suggest a discount? Guilt? Fear? Embarassment? Get over that real quick.

If you have to negotiate, always begin negotiations with more than you expect to get. You may be surprized how much more they're willing to pay.

Think of it this way, If you got a booking for another place in town on a Monday night, you would be making $150.00 for the other place. So don't start your negotiations at any less than $150.00/night.

If the owner balks at that price, Hmm and Haw for a minute, scribble some nonsence on a piece of paper and then tell him you could probably do the extra two nights for $140/night, but Sunday would have to remain at $150. I know the temptation is to reduce your rate in $25 increments, but who made that rule? That's just silly. Any reduction in price will seem like a deal to the owner. Whether he's saving $10.00 or $50.00 is only important if a number has already been presented. In other words, if you've already discussed a $50 discount and then you come back and tell him you can give him a $10 discount, he's not gonna be happy with that. But if you've not discussed any discount, not even a range within which you might be willing to work, then even a $10 discount is giving the owner something for nothing.

As far as the perks of playing at his place:
How much are you really eating or drinking before or during the shows? I find that most bar owners offer this, but few KJs take real advantage of it. It's likely that this little benefit doesn't really pay you anything.
The fact that you can leave your stuff there was part of the original deal when you made $150.00, so why charge less for the same benefit on two other nights?
You got to leave early when you were charging $150. Again, he had accepted that term, so begin negotiations at the same level.
Don't capitulate before the process even starts.

Most negotiations are lost before they begin, because one of the players has already decided what their low number will be and starts the bidding right there. If you hit 'em with a high number, it may shock them, but they aren't going to throw you out of the office before you have time to barter down. Even if you have to shout, "Okay, I'll do it for less! Name your price!" as the bouncers are dragging you out the door by either arm, you will have time to amend your opening bid. Don't be afraid to shoot high.

But don't shoot too high. This will make you look like a fool who doesn't know what he's doing and again you will lose the negotiation. Your opening bid should be a number that you can justify. Like starting your bid at $150/night and saying, "That's my regular rate. If I'm playing here on Mondays for less than $150 and I get a booking for Mondays elsewhere and they're willing to pay the $150, I'd be losing money every night I stayed here."

As a bar owner, I'd probably still offer my low amount, but I'd add that if you got another booking for a monday night at another place, I'd be willing to cover the difference - at that time.

The point is, ask for more than you'd expect and see how much you can walk out the door with. This is a business. Business is all about profit.

[Lonman]

Don't know about anyone else, but I like to give the club a discounted rate if they book multiple 'in a row' nights - especially if I can leave the equipment set-up for the nights. More nights, more percentage off. Starting price is $175 per night. Discount 5% per extra night. If the nights are broken up, the discount does not apply.

[bryant]

Alan, thanks, these are some other variables I didn't mention the first time.

I see. Here's my situation again. The owner called me in and said he had a proposal to make. So he was going to initiate the figures.

Also, there already is a guy on Tuesday nights (there main karaoke night) that is already bringing in a huge crowd, mostly college kids, on Tuesday. I know he was working for 100 dollars. But he isn't well liked in the area, personality lacking, etc.

Monday night is just a background music thing to keep a few ppl there at the bar for a few hours, maybe several hours. It'll never attract a large crowd, No one in Central maine attends bars on Monday, they never have, never will, so I am not expected to bring in a crowd either. And there is no where in the State where I could work on that night and make the 150 I do on Sundays, or work at all period. There also is no place in the area that has a Tuesday opening anywhere. Oh, I could drive 60 miles and perhaps find one. But not going to. Their Thurs. Fri. and Sat. DJ who packs the place on weekends only gets 100 a night, and he drives up from 60 miles and removes and reloads his equipment each night.

And the only reason I will accept these gigs is because I live a mile away(less than) and will not have to even touch my equip. between sunday and wednesday. On Monday and Tuesday I leave everything completely set up. Don't move anything.

His offer was 300 for the three. I told him that's only 75 a night for Mon and Tue. as I was making 150 on Sunday as it was. He stated that Sunday was not a really big night (and it isn't around here) and that it wasn't a 150 dollar night but he wasn't the kinda guy that was gonna ask me to take a cut after he had allowed the increase about 6 months ago from 125 to 150. And that being offered three nights a little reduction would be in order. My response was, I can do it for 350, that would sorta make 125, 125, and 100, spread out over those three days, hmmm. He responded with I think you're worth it I wanna keep you happy, let me start you off with 325 and after eight weeks, no discussion required, the bartenders will be told to pay you the 350. He will, as he has been honest about those type of increases in the past, and really respects my loyalty. This will be a little tough during the school year as I teach in the morning and wasn't really looking for another weekday gig, but summer's coming and if I can make it to then , it'll be a cinch.
Tuesdays WILL die down because ppl leave for the summer and college kids go home.
With all of this in mind, what would YOU DO or say in response to all this?

I can stay on Sundays only for 150.

I can in eight weeks be making 350 for three nights, leave at 12:30 no packing, no removal, no setting up on Mon or Tue, either, and walk home in less than 5 minutes. And let it breeze thru the summer. I prolly drink 5 or 10 bucks worth of soda or beer and another 10 for food there w/o paying as well.

Or tell him to stick it.

My weekends are full and my Wed. gig is 150 and really easy so will always hang on to those.

[kilith]

For me this is someting that is really hard. I mean when a DJ in the area onlt charges $100.00 a night then this is something hard to really try and figure out. DJ's around here go anywhere from $500.00 a night to $1500.00 a night. Bars pay for it. Also if he likes you and says you are worth it then he should have no problem paying the $350.00 now and not 8 weeks down the road.

I would tell him it has to be $350 now you have already told me I am worth it and you like my services so why do you need to hold that extra $25 for 8 weeks. He is being a cheep skate to me. Thing is if he wants your quality work which he seems to like he should have no problem what so ever now to pay what you are asking now.

If he dont go for the $350 then you still have Sunday night and it will be his loss. You seem like you really do not need to pick these two nights up but it should be fair to you if you are going to pick them up for him and after being there as long as you have you should not have to take a cut like he is trying to make you take right now. All in all you are not his employee you are a contract for hire and he should pay what you ask for and not what he decides to pay you. Now if you were working for him with HIS equipment that would be different. You however need to make some sort of a little profit to keep your songs up to date and to keep adding. To keep your system in top running shape. To be able to repair or replace anything that might break.

Is this so called DJ that plays up there an Ipod DJ? Cause really I dont know any real DJ with a system that can afford $100.00 a night lol.

But no I would not accept him cutting off $25 for 8 weeks when he already says your well worth the money. If you are well worth the money he would pay what you are asking.

[kilith]

What are your differences between you and this other KJ in that bar? Who has more songs, better sounding system and so on. I know you already said he has no personality or a poor one. That could also be something to take in to the forumla is if you are better then this guy and your quality is better then you should make more then he does. If you put more quality into your show that makes you worth more in itself alone.

In Wisconsin in a town of less then 200 I make $300 a night and $500 on 2 nights. I play from 9:00PM to 2:15-2:30AM The KJ they have up there charges $150-200 I believe but where ever he plays bar fights break out. It seems to be a plague of his. We started up there for $200 and after 1 night and they seen what I could do and that they had the best crowd ever in the bar history they had no problem with the $300 the next time. I also do a full DJ lighting system use all band equipment from my PA to my speakers, mics, cords. One of your nights would not even pay for one of my mics.

Sit down with this guy and just ask him straight out. Do you want to pay for quality or are you happy using second rate entertainment to save a buck. Quality is what brings people in not just having entertainment. If they come in and the entertainment sound like crap they might have 1 drink and then leave or they might just leave right after entering the door. If he really likes you he should have no problem paying you what you ask. Do not back down. Be firm.

[alanross]

bryant,
Your specifics are exactly why it's almost impossible to compare rates around the country. Not only is every area unique, but each situation is unique.

My comments are always meant to be taken in the general sense. You obviously have a good relationship with this club owner and you are the only one who knows best if what he is offering is acceptable. You know the area and what the area will support, you know the competition and you seem to have a good grasp of the flow of human traffic through the bars in the different seasons. This is the crucial information that I recommend everyone investigates in their area and specific venues before haggling over price.

It would be wrong for me to give you my opinion of whether this fellow's offer is acceptable. You are the person who is there. You are the one interacting with him and you can "read" him far better than I. Go with your gut and you will be fine.

- Alan

[bryant]

Thanks Kilith and Alan. Really appreciate the input given here.

Kilith' The other DJ has a jvc triple deck with two lousy speakers, and two cheap mics, 200 songs, I got 9400, and blah, blah, blah. My equipment is superior all around, sound, show-running, and it is well known.

I do think he is being cheap. You're right there. I mean why quibble over 25 bucks for 8 weeks. Simply because he wants the money in his pocket. I know that. Do I lose out on 200 dollars to get what I ask later for as long as I want. Or delete 150 dollars a week forever instead?

Her's what I think I'm gonna do.

I think I'll ask for 350 now and accept it later if he absolutely refuses, only because it is a very nice place to play and I get a lot of publicity from a very respectable clientelle. Then, turn it all away in August, when I begin to teach again. My overall feeling is that he'll drop Mondays, and that's when I ask for a total of 150 per night for both Sun and Tue = 300. He may not agree then, but THAT will BE my final offer at that time.

Most KJ's around here pick up a used JVC triple deck, someones old 2000 song collection, and two wired 19 dollar mics at radio shack and still pack a place, it's really weird.

I'm gonna try to get a Thursday gig this Summer too, and see if I can operate at 7 days a week this summer (just to say I did it).

On another note, My g/f's parents who like the idea of getting her involved, is going to get her the entire Legends series collection for her Birthday coming up.

So you see, Kilith, I sorta have a plan B here.

Please comment.

[bryant]

sorry, 200 = 2000 songs for other DJ.

[Lonman]

Originally Posted by bryant

Most KJ's around here pick up a used JVC triple deck, someones old 2000 song collection, and two wired 19 dollar mics at radio shack and still pack a place, it's really weird.

I believed you mentioned it's more of a college crowd? This would be the main reason. These kids don't really care about good or bad karaoke (most wouldn't know good FROM bad), the club probably has decent drinks & close to the school (or so far off in the midst of nowhere) & it's probably loud?. I have watched some terrible shows/hosts in really good clubs (generally college age groups) - always packed, but crappy equipment & hosting skills.

[jleekaraoke]

in the area where i live there is only 3 kj's in the area... our rates average around $200 per show...I play 3 nights per week and yes I realize all that goes into a show, traveling etc. but that is seems to be the going rate.. This is how I make a living also, but I have found that when I have a good night at the bar.. the owner always gives me more at end of the night. The bar wants to make money and so do I, so it seems to average out quite nice.. I do charge more when there is an outside gig, or I have to travel at least an hour to a gig.. thanks for letting me share... I just bought the hostus program, so looking forward to using it soon, once i get all my cd's loaded. still trying to figure everything out... don't know how to change some of the cd's that came out unknown, but i guess i'll figure it out soon... God Bless to all my fello kj's

oh and by the way i also play in a small town area in wisconsin and i think charging anything over 250 is crazy even when you are worth it.. they know it and they will most generally pay ya extra at end of the night

[kilith]

Originally Posted by jleekaraoke

in the area where i live there is only 3 kj's in the area... our rates average around $200 per show...I play 3 nights per week and yes I realize all that goes into a show, traveling etc. but that is seems to be the going rate.. This is how I make a living also, but I have found that when I have a good night at the bar.. the owner always gives me more at end of the night. The bar wants to make money and so do I, so it seems to average out quite nice.. I do charge more when there is an outside gig, or I have to travel at least an hour to a gig.. thanks for letting me share... I just bought the hostus program, so looking forward to using it soon, once i get all my cd's loaded. still trying to figure everything out... don't know how to change some of the cd's that came out unknown, but i guess i'll figure it out soon... God Bless to all my fello kj's

oh and by the way i also play in a small town area in wisconsin and i think charging anything over 250 is crazy even when you are worth it.. they know it and they will most generally pay ya extra at end of the night

I travel over 400 miles to play there. Yeah I take milage off on taxes but 300 for what I travel plus free drinks they are getting a good deal :p Also not every owner if you are good or not will give you extra money at the end of the night. I have been doing this for 10+ years and only 1 bar out of 30 I have played in have given me extra but I also was only charging that bar 125 a night on Sundays and they always had packed crowds in that bar. The only nights I got a little extra was maybe Memorial day and Labor Day. I played there for well over 5 years. (not playing there anymore however because it is not worth the money anymore since I live 3hrs away from that bar now insted of 15 mins.)

[jleekaraoke]

yes i agree you need to have quality equipment, but being a kj requires more than sticking in a song and letting them sing.. there is showmanship, there's friendliness and reliability...and it's also running a fine line of being professional with a bunch of drunks... i've been a kj for 9 years.. just in the last year and 1/2 started adding a few dj tunes during the night... you're not just playing for the singers, you have to keep the "Whole" bar entertained and awake and involved.. so that's why these kj's are drawing in crowds... you also have to keep updated on all the songs people want to sing old and new.. when i'm ready to order new music i give everyone a heads up.. put out a pad of paper and they write down what they want me to get...every kj runs their show different and it's fantastic to see all the different styles of shows and equipment...i love it.. I don't feel i'm undercutting any other kj around because i feel my prices are fair to the area where I am playing.. i know in the bigger towns prices over 300 are perfect for them...but i have had some people come in and try to undercut me to the bar.. but because i know i have a good solid show and a huge following I never worry about it... I just do my best and the bar owners see that.,.. thanks for letting me vent

jackie lee karaoke

[bryant]

Good vent, Jackielee, I agree with you, and Kilith, too; finally, right, Kilith. I live in the area of "cheap" bartenders as well, never give any extra, even when I stay a little later because of a good crowd. I guess he just wants to keep the bread.

I have heard bar owners remarks before, such as, "Why should I pay this person 25 or 50 dollars more when the other person is gonna bring in approx. the same crowd.".

When there isn't that much to do in an area, no one wants to travel too far because of strict liquor laws anyway, ppl will go to the only place that's open and close by, regardless of who the Dj/kj is. I've heard ppl say, "Man, I hate that KJ at so and so's place, but they go and say "Bryant, you should be playing there". It doesn't matter, other guy charges less, and they still go.

Al-in-all, I've been kind of lucky I guess, I get 150 - 200 a night for regular weekday gigs and all four places are within a mile from my house, get free drinks and food, and either use most of their equip., or bring little of my own and leave it there. No set up, no travel, little wear-and-tear on my stuff.

All of my weddings come from these places by word of mouth, are also in the area of 5 miles from my home,
and I get 450 - 550 for these afternoon gigs. And I don't do it for a living.

But the credit all goes to MTU's "Hoster". This is how all these gigs just flew at me. I play 6 times a week now.

[bryant]

What I ended up doing is telling him that 350 should be started out instead of waiting for the 8 weeks. He agreed, and, as I expected, said "Business will slow down next fall and if we are up front with each other, you will understand that and be willing to accept 325 on those slow periods." I didn't comment on that part as I only plan to work this much through the summer anyway.

In essence, the intial thoughts and advice from Kilith and Alan was helpful, thanx.

In the fall, he will most likely put an ad in the paper or may ask me for suggestions as to who may be available. I know three others that have minimal equip., personality, and song selection, but still draw the same ole crowd that every one else does for 100 - 125 dollars.

He'll be happy, I'll get more sleep, and the world goes on.

[bryant]

Well, I finally gave my notice as I said I would at the above gig, now i am doing wed., fri. and sat., while my g/f DJ's Fri. and sat.

That's ok (I think) for part time as we both have fulltime jobs with kids all grown up.

[kingjames]

the amounts i've charged has always been directly proportional to the circumstances, (1)is this gig a good and long lasting one.
(2)am i comped on food and drink
(3)does it pay the same year round
(4) and do i have to break down and haul or leave my equip.
1 yr was the shortest time frame i played at a bar. 8 yrs 3.5yrs, 1yr, and 1 at the current, and looks like it will be for many more. 2 night a week @200.00 a night. more if holidays like halloween new yrs ect. If a band can get 500.00 a night and only know 25-30 songs and I have 14,000Hmmm.

[jleekaraoke]

I Totally Agree With You, I Have Tons Of Gigs That I Have Had For Years...i've Raised My Rates Somewhat, But Not Too Much, Usually When The Bar Has A Good Night I Get An Extra Bonus So They Are Very Good To Me....... I'm Starting To Have Problems With Bmi...the Bars Can't Even Advertise Because Bmi,, Finds Out, Then Contacts The Bar For Money...it Sucks... 2 Months Ago I Went Totally Computerized With Over 70,000 Tunes And A Huge Dj Library........(less Is Best When It Comes To Setting Up) Anyways.. That Is The Problem I'm Having Now Is With Bmi... Everything Else Is Cool

[capnvic]

I have to be on the low side of 200 dollars, since most of the gigs I get are either Moose Lodges , the American Legion or some other service org. These places generally don't get the hassle of outside groups like BMI or ASCAP.

The shows are steady and I usually do one to two shows a weekend. The only exception is if it is a party or reception, then my rates are changed accordingly to the going rate for these functions.