The Purpose of Back-up Copies

[slydways]

What is the purpose of back-up copies? Is it to protect your investment? If I make back-up copies but can never use them in public to replace lost,stolen or damaged orininals...what good are the copies? As a KJ I cannot ever use these copies for "commercial" purposes. If ,you say, I can use my copies if I can prove that I have the originals at home...that means that I can never sell,trade or give away my originals...or if they are lost,stolen,or damaged I can never use my copies! I cannot see any clear reason to make any copies if this is the case. Am I missing something here?

[jaddams]

The purpose of making backup copies is to protect your investment. As long as you keep your good or damaged originals you can prove that you legally own them.

It's like making backup copies of you hard Drive's data.

Nobody has to make backup copies. It's enterely to the individual.

Jon

[George]

If you really want to get confused, read KAPA's position on back up's.

They say since music cd's/cdg's fall under the Phonograph record catagory, and not software you are not permitted to make an archive copy. Here's the link to their site.

http://www.karaokeantipiracyagency.com/faq.html

Start researching the websites for copywrite laws and form your own conclusions. This is too confusing an area to expect others to tell you what to do, and then blame them later on if it was incorrect advice.

George

[wackyquack]

I am just a little confused. How many different ways can we ask the same question. I thought that Admin just yesterday closed this topic in another thread?

However, I do agree with George. Read the copyright law and make your own decision. I will tell you that I have made back ups of my entire library (6500 songs). But again, make your own decision.

[slydways]

thanks for your input.....I guess we will all have to wait and see if any further litigation will clear up this issue...and I would not take anyones advice and then blame them.....just looking for some collective wisdom on the issue...I would advise consulting with an attorney who specializes in copyright laws.

There needs to be a final legal decision on whether cd+g's are software or phonocards and then what would constitute "legal" copies ,if any, and there allowable use.....hopefully we will have an answer soon.

[gduns - with the Lord]

The way I see it there is not a legal way to have anything we are going to keep paying through our nose.

you pay $25.00 to buy a cd to play in a karaoke show. thinking you have paid the royalties & copyrights to use this for a show. then ASCAP comes in and says unless you pay another $800 a year for every night of the week you have karaoke, you are violating copyright laws...... pay that, then BMI comes in and wants the same. How many times do we have to pay for the rights to use this music.

[George]

SLYDWAYS,

Perhaps "blame" was a poor choice of words on my part. I didn't mean "blame" in the conventional manner.I meant no offense. What I meant to convey, is to ask for advice, then cite the advisor as one's source of authority, which most people would do.

Only problem with that, in this arena, is the best you can get is opinions, not meaningful advice that can be cited as a reliable source.

Take care,

George

[SteveWalker]

Does anyone have a picture of this Godlike creature named KAPA?
Could it be the self-serving CEO of Sound Choice perhaps?

http://www.karaokeantipiracyagency.com/faq.html

If I own my own discs, can I load them onto a hard drive to play them in a show, etc.?

No, you MAY NOT load songs from other manufacturers on your hard drive. The licensing rights for music on a hard drive machine exist only between the machine manufacturer and the music provider. These rights do not extend to the owner of the machine, to load songs from other manufacturers on the hard drive player. Copying the discs on to a hard drive is still copying the discs. Legally, it is absolutely no different than burning a copy of the discs. In order to copy your discs on to your hard drive, you have to have the written permission of the company that produced the discs and owns the copyrights.

[George]

For my money, KAPA, ASCAP, and BMI are nothing more than legalized "protection rackets"

You pay us and we'll let you stay in business, otherwise our goons will bust up your store.

Sound familiar?

[gduns - with the Lord]

Too Many lawyers, not enough money to keep them all happy

[SteveWalker]

The technology is here to stay! We have watched the "rate of change" of technology over the years and it hasn't slowed down yet. Sound Choice wouldn't even be in business if wasn't for the CD technology available to them. Sound Choice did not do the R&D that make CD's available. Sound Choice did NOT write those songs NOT the LYRICS and NOT the MUSIC. Sound Choice decided to copy the music for PROFIT, PROFIT and more PROFIT at $32 a pop. How can we say the original artist should lower their price to $7.99 when the copycats like Sound Choice charge $32.00?

[slydways]

I think the fate of copying cd+g's will be tied to the eventual shake-up now occuring with the lawsuits involving downloading of music......hopefully the result will maintain the Illegality of making multiple copies for sale or distribution and the legal ability for making a back-up copy that can be legally used if the orininal is lost,stolen,damaged,ect.

Unfortunately....with DVD's this has not occured... I understand that it is illegal to make ANY copy of a copyrighted DVD...technically if they find one in your house you could be prosecuted.

I also understand that the music companies get a percentage of the sale of BLANK cdr's...so how are they really losing?

[George]

A:

"The use of an unlicensed copied product is illegal. The copyright laws are very clear about the fundamental legalities of copying copyrighted materials which includes many other products than music. Basically, the law permits you to make an unlicensed copy of a copyrighted disc for your OWN PERSONAL USE only. If you want to listen to the copied disc in your home or your car, that is legal. You may not make an unlicensed copy of a disc for ANY COMMERCIAL USE. That means that you cannot make an unlicensed copy as a gift, as a promotional item, for sale, for use in promoting another product, for use in a show or publication, and a myriad of other commercial applications. If you are using the songs on a disc for any reason other than your own personal listening, you must use the original disc."

B:

"Am I allowed to make a copy of my discs for archive purposes?
This is one of the most confusing issues involving copyrighted music. It is also one of the arguments often presented by those who want to break the copyright laws. This entire issue revolves around the definition of the class of copyrighted material. By law, you are permitted to make an archive copy of "Software" class copyrighted material. However, music (including Karaoke CDGs) is part of the "Phonorecord" class of copyrighted materials. Archive copies are not permitted in this class. So, no, you may not make an archive copy of your Karaoke discs.



Both A and B are direct copies from the NAPA site I linked in a post above. They are separated on the page by only one short paragraph.

"A" says you can make a copy for personal use, to listen to in your home or car.

"B" says since music cd's are classified as phonorecords, not software, you cannot make a copy.

Does not "A" and "B" directly contradict each other?



If they can't get it straight themselves, how do they expect compliance?


George

[slydways]

According to a Canadian anti-pirating site (CAKE), KAPA is in fact the political arm of Sound Choice...check them out...

http://www.dogandponysound.com/cake.htm


C.A.K.E. states that KAPA is "Sound Choice's own internally founded and financed branch for copyright protection and enforcement" (bottom of home page)

You'll notice that the KAPA site has no area for you to get info on the operators of the organization or to E-Mail them.

Also..."DKKaraoke" is NOT listed as a supporting member..buy their music instead of those listed.

KAPA's statements are only Sound Choices OPINIONS..and have no legal weight..federal and state laws vary...and the legal opinion of Judges can also....like the IRS Code..each person must read the law for himself...get expert legal advise...make his own desicion about his back-up copies and hope an overzealous and Jealous KJ (one without a computer) won't come sneakin' round his show the see if he is using a "copy".

While I support the effort to stop multiple copying and distribution
of copyrighted material....prosecuting people for making and using ONE back-up copy of legally obtained disc's is going too far.
Believe me, I have spent far more money on computer hardware and software than I would have spent on simply buying two sets of everthing.

In my opinion...Anyone who has legally obtained an original copyrighted cd+g..makes a back-up copy..can them use that copy for the same intended purpose as the original ( public performance ) to keep the originals safe. And if his originals are stolen...still be allowed to use that copy in public....I am not making any "profit" from this copy, this is "personal" and not "commercial" use. "Personally" using it for it's intended purpose(public performance)and not "commercially" selling it or making mutiple copies for my other eight shows.

This is personal to me....I had over 3000 cd+g's stolen from me some years ago...my buisiness insurance would not cover it because it was a"partner" who stole it and skipped town. So now that I have the ability to protect my investment...I intend to...and only hope that if some "KAPA NAZI" does discover my "crime" , a reasonable Judge or Jury might see it otherwise...(by the way...if someone does harasse you...you can always SUE THEM for harrasement..America is still a great country.

Remember... the burden of proof is on the accuser and the prosecution... don't be intimidated by Sound Choice/KAPA

AND DON'T BUY SOUND CHOICE PRODUCTS!!!!

And Support "EFF" an organization trying to protect comsumers rights..Check them out...

http://www.eff.org/

[SteveWalker]

Originally posted by slydways
[b]I think the fate of copying cd+g's will be tied to the eventual shake-up now occuring with the lawsuits involving downloading of music......hopefully the result will maintain the Illegality of making multiple copies for sale or distribution and the legal ability for making a back-up copy that can be legally used if the orininal is lost,stolen,damaged,ect.

I agree we should be able to make backups in case the original is damaged in which case you can keep the damaged CDG as proof of ownership. However, is your sales receipts adequate in the case where your CDG's are lost or stolen? Best to have that covered with an insurance policy.

Steve

[slydways]

Here is a good site on the "fair use" issue that pertains to us...

http://www.dvdclonepro.com/fairuse/fairuse.html

[admin]

MTU ask IPJustice.org to research if making backup copies is legal, including copying to a hard drive. Read this post on their legal research results. You'll be glad you did!

[slydways]

Thanks!!!....Finally someone in the legal community fighting on our side.

[gotrich]

I wanna know about taking a snip of a song. For example I have downloaded the hampsterdance and want to use a 10 second snip durring a show...Can I do that since I am not using the entire song? I also Have a CD I OWN of the song WIld Thing. Can I take and cut a 10 second snip out of that and use it in my show? I hear lots of KJ's use funny clips and tey tell me they get it from napster or Kazaa...whats the deal??

Thanks