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  #1  
Old December 7th, 2002, 12:28 PM
admin admin is offline
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With conflicting facts, we are working on a solution

I have created this Thread on 10/05/03 and moved all unhappy posts under it.

Many Keyrite users do NOT hear artifacts (echoes, reverbs, vibrato, rubberbanding). Thus, we are not confident the problem is with Keyrite's code. We suspect the analog audio components used are also part of the problem or... the main cause.

Please post your analog components (amplifier, mixer, etc.) outside the computer in this different Thread to help us see what gear the artifacts are heard with.
[list=1][*] Post here ONLY if you hear artifacts. You will receive notices on this topic when we post here.
[*] Do NOT post here if you have problems related to your computer or using Keyrite. Please create a new thread.
[*] Do NOT post here if you find a bug. We will fix and release a new version with any bug reports fixed.[/list=1]
What does Keyrite do?[list=1][*]Processes Karaoke CDG digital files and preserves the lyrics. No other key changer offers this unique feature.
[*]Does all processes digitally. To my humble knowledge... all karaoke machines use analog key changers and they do not create problems a digital program can.
[*]Plays in real-time and creates the output file in non-real-time. You can hear you changes while playing, but the created key changed file computes non-real-time to allow running even on 100MHz processors. If Keyrite runs at all, its output file is computed correctly.
[*]It is incredibly simple to use. There are no controls to adjust. We made tradeoffs... Easy to use versus adjustments requiring advanced audio and computer skills to use. Our current settings are acceptable to 96% to 98% of our users.
[*]It is currently $39.95! The next closest real-time product we found that processes digital audio files (not cdg) was $400, and the next was $1,100 (also not cdg).[/list=1]
Be aware - Songs have differing amounts of reverb and echo delays, different instruments and tempos that affect how they will key change. There is no perfect setting for every song, even if we provided adjustments for you.

A brief history of MTU

Read about our "First-in-the-world" pioneering advancements in digital audio and microcomputers. Companies and Universities in the USA, Japan, England, Australia, Korea, Switzerland, Canada and more paid us consulting fees, and bought our products.

MTU's digital audio converters from early 1981 were the world standard for over 15 years.

Mix Magazine, 09/1997 quote: "Micro Technology Unlimited (MTU) shipped the first professional quality ´direct to disk´ digital audio workstation on a microcomputer."[/b]

We are now focusing on identifying exactly why the artifacts occur in Keyrite processed songs. Please post your analog components (amplifier, mixer, etc.) outside the computer in this different Thread to help us see what gear the artifacts are heard with.

  #2  
Old December 7th, 2002, 02:42 PM
Mustangt93 Mustangt93 is offline
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I am concerned about the overall quality of the keywrite program. The process of dropping the key makes them sound draggy and also gives them a processed sound. The best way I can describe it is that it makes them sound as though they're being played through a rubberband. A phaser kind of sound.

I only ask because I have had my karaoke business for some amount of years and I have always used the pioneer V10G for all my shows and the key transposer built into them is great. If you drop a song no more that three keys, detecting that it's been dropped is almost impossible. I also have a Vocopro system with very good transposers. Out of the entire Ksuite4 that I have, it's the only thing I am somewhat disappointed with.

I do have very good ears. I don't just run karaoke...I have been a semi-professional singer for years as well. I actually have a really good sound system that I use for my karaoke shows as well. No offense to MTU but I don't want to end up going down in quality because I do try to run a real quality show.

Let me break down what my computer is and you can tell me if that's part of the problem.

2 Gig P4 Processor 512 Cache
512 Megs of DDR
40 Gig Hard Drive
64 Meg AGP Video Card
Windows XP (But I also had 98 SE when I first got Ksuite4 and it sounded the same).
  #3  
Old December 8th, 2002, 06:44 PM
kjrew kjrew is offline
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Unhappy

I agree with you about the response, except to change your rubber band to a quivering reproduction.

I have been in the music & entertainment field for over 40 years. I am an entertainer for 35 years with my own live band and Karaoke. I've been doing Karaoke for the past 18 years from Florida to Wisconsin.

I have been at the controls in a sound studio and we're talking about thousands & thousands of dollars. The manuals for that type of equipment are hundreds of pages long and you are almost required to get a degree in audio technology. which I don't need to know to be a Karaoke KJ.

I have purchased 3 versions of Keyrite. I would pay whatever the cost is for the software to do what it is supposed to do and do it correctly.

I recorded one CD for MTU already in December with and without key changes on 3 different songs using Keyrite 3.0 showing the quivering effect.
  #4  
Old January 5th, 2003, 09:24 PM
rebob7 rebob7 is offline
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Keyrite Quality Problem

I'm running Keyrite 1.3.0.2 on a 1.4ghz athlon system and the sound quality is not good enough for a performance. It sounds as if some ringing/reverb has been added.
  #5  
Old January 6th, 2003, 11:43 AM
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kjzone kjzone is offline
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I must agree that Keyrite has more work to be done on it. There is a ringing/reverb especially when I use the "+" keys.

Using Pentium III, 800Mhz, 785MB Ram, 36GB HD, Win98SE with all Hotfixes.
  #6  
Old February 19th, 2003, 05:01 PM
prmckay1 prmckay1 is offline
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I Agree with the other posters! --- The Upper-end Quality of Keyrite isn't there.

Please consider me for Beta Testing when you get ready.
  #7  
Old February 23rd, 2003, 02:31 PM
George George is offline
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The artifacts are not all Keyrite

I just created a file using Keyrite on what I consider an acid test song, Claire De Lune, strictly piano, slow tempo. Other than normal expected piano reverb there is no fluttering.

It really beats me why some are experiencing this "effect" and others do not. Could be a conflict in some systems, but it is not an across the board problem.

When you consider that out of the hundreds of Keyrite owners, there are less than a dozen who have reported experiencing this anomaly.

MTU has not said "we've had it happen here at MTU". Not one Beta tester (I am one) has reported it during past tests, and I haven't.

I spoke up to let MTU know that not all are hearing artifacts. I have experienced "motorboating" in Kpro in play mode after nudging for a length of time on one of my pc's. It has been seen in Microstudio also. In every instance the problem was solved by adjusting all the hardware accellerator settings. It seems there was a software/hardware conflict.

Like all of you, I too hope we all find a cure, if it in fact is a software problem.
  #8  
Old February 27th, 2003, 12:50 PM
mlepine mlepine is offline
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Lightbulb Keyrite

After reading the comments from the President, I will have to say I agree with the fact that for this low price what more can we expect?

Let's hope they will be able to improve it & still be able to offer it at a reasonable price.

I would like to suggest to use the Key changer that comes with SB Live or Audigy. You will loose the stereo but the sound will be good for a Live performance.

Let's stay positive, they heard us & I'm confident something will be done.
  #9  
Old March 29th, 2003, 12:41 AM
Crooner Crooner is offline
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Problem with Sound Quality

I've been reading this thread about Keyrite with great curiosity. A previous message poster listed the specs of his PC in terms of CPU and amount of RAM, etc. But isn't the quality of the output file dependent on the quality of the sound card in the PC?

Perhaps in naivete, my first instincts would tell me that processing the music is just a matter of manipulating ones and zeroes. But some of my friends tell me that one definitely needs a superior sound card in order to create high-quality output files.

I'm typing this from WebTV and am contemplating getting a PC. I will get a PC with a sound card such as Soundblaster Audigy.
  #10  
Old March 29th, 2003, 05:47 AM
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Yes... and No...

When a program like Keyrite creates a sound file, the audio output card has nothing to do with the quality of the resulting file. However, for you to HEAR that file, you will play it through your audio card, and THEN it has a definite effect on how good or bad that file sounds. The SB Audigy is an excellent choice if you have good ears!
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  #11  
Old April 13th, 2003, 05:55 PM
SteveL SteveL is offline
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Quivering/Vibrato in Transposed Song

I read the thread about the quivering transposed sounds that Keyrite 1.302 makes. I have the same problem.
  #12  
Old April 21st, 2003, 09:05 PM
jconner jconner is offline
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Angry excessive vibrato in keyright 1.302

I just bought keyright but I agree with some of the other users that there is excessive vibrato or quivering when you change keys.

If this is corrected I think You will have a decent product.
  #13  
Old April 22nd, 2003, 05:00 PM
jahern jahern is offline
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Now Boys (and girls??)

When we ask "Who is Keyrite for?" (pardon my pronoun) the only answer is "For people who don't have access to a good key changer." If they have access to a key changer, then they don't need to use it. Arguments about the quality are kind of irrevelant if it's the only thing available at times.

Let me explain why I value Keyrite. I like to go to Acapulco Restaurant in Downey CA for atmosphere, selection, and proximity. When I first started going, I think that the key changer used quarter tones and I was embarrassed to say "down 8". The host and some friends would assure me that "down 2" was usually enough.

When the restaurant changed their system, it sometimes reverted to the original key if there was a pause in the music that I sing. The host chides clients who want to use the key changer. Keyrite has helped me around these difficult circumstances.

Talk about all the machines you want, but there is no alternative for a program that reprocesses a CDG file in a matter of minutes from start to "New Performance Disc".
  #14  
Old May 11th, 2003, 03:02 PM
NYTEHORSE7 NYTEHORSE7 is offline
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Keyrite Sound

ADD ME TO YOUR LIST OF THOSE WHO FEEL THE KEYRITE SYSTEM NEEDS SERIOUS IMPROVEMENT BY MTU TO MAKE IT ACCEPTABLE FOR ANY PRACTICAL USE. I WOULD WELCOME AN IMPROVED VERSION EVEN IF I HAD TO PAY ADDITIONAL TO GET IT.
  #15  
Old October 2nd, 2003, 07:55 PM
algae algae is offline
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keyrite is more like keywrong

I have just purchased microstudio and keyrite.I am getting a horrible quivering or wobble when I use keyrite.

The Kjs I have spoken to from all over the country spend thousands of dollars on equipment every year and hundreds of dollars per month on new discs, so dont be so quick to write them off as too cheap to buy a quality product.
  #16  
Old October 3rd, 2003, 02:15 AM
ltproductions ltproductions is offline
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Key change option

I am a loyal MTU customer and enjoy using most of their products, but I do agree that Keyrite is not up to par yet.

I am looking forward to the new release of Keyrite. I will upgrade when it becomes available.
  #17  
Old October 4th, 2003, 12:54 PM
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The problem is digital processing AND the audio gear outboard

We are very sorry that anyone is displeased with Keyrite. If you are intent on being unhappy with MTU for $39.95, please call Dave (ext. 206) and we will refund your software price. If I am out, leave a message on my voice mail with your phone number and that you want a refund on Keyrite. Refunds are NOT our standard policy and it is done only with my approval.

Please NOTE: We always offer the best upgrade discount to existing customers. Also we will raise the price back to $89.95 after we provide a free upgrade to 1.4xx to try to make some improvements. That was its price for the first 2 years we sold it.

Our Keyrite sales page was changed to be clearer that folks looking for perfection in a home theater environment may not be happy with Keyrite. However, karaoke singers looking to perform on stage and not require a key change will probably be very pleased.

We are ready to believe that the quality of the amplifier you use may be the greatest cause of the warbling you are hearing. Please, prove me wrong! Read the topmost post and post your analog audio gear in this different Thread .

Life is too short to have folks unhappy with us.
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  #18  
Old October 4th, 2003, 03:18 PM
danny_g danny_g is offline
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MTU was not aware of the problem when the product was released. They have a track record of fixing these problems.

I have not had any problems with any of my MTU programs since I purchased my first copies two years ago. and will have the last of my hopes fullfilled when KPro 5 is released.

For the most part I have not seen any program MTU has put out that once a bug is found they haven't provided the info on the Forum for that product.

I recomend that if you are considering purchasing an MTU product you go to that product's forum first to see if any bugs have been found. second you are asking the impossible if you want a keychangingprogram not to change the way a song sounds. That is exactly what the program is supposed to do. Even the hardware keychanger changes the sound of the song.
  #19  
Old October 5th, 2003, 02:02 AM
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Question Possible hardware explanation

We had one user recently who used to complain about the distortion, so he changed his outboard gear and ALL the problems with Keyrite disappeared! We discussed this and here is the theory we came up with.

Keyrite is a powerful Digital Signal Processor that changes the phasing of the harmonic components, because of its filters and windows required for processing (a window is a block of samples used in a digital audiio calculation). Also, the overlap of samples in the processed "windows" further changes the phase on some harmonic components differently from others.

Now, here is the catcher: Lower quality analog filters that DO exist in your systems following your Digital-to-Analog output converters, or the rolloff in your amplifier or other outboard audio gear, also have filtering effects. When the phase shifted samples processed by Keyrite are sent through analog filters that have non-linear phase performance, it can cause random anomolies based on the original sound.


If this theory is correct, it would absolutely define why George and many others have never heard the artifacts that others hear. Instead of trying Keyrite on another computer, try it with a high quality sound card, and better outboard gear.

Read the topmost post and post your analog audio gear in this different Thread so we can all compare notes. Specifically, what hardware D/A converters do you use and what outboard gear do you use. We may be able to find a common thread here.
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  #20  
Old October 5th, 2003, 03:03 AM
George George is offline
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One of my pc's is a 98SE/Intel P3@860mhz/Ati Rage Fury Pro2000/262mg. RAM/ Creative Soundblaster PCI128.

The other is XPHome/Intel P4@1.6ghz/ATI Radeon 7500/ 512 mg. RAM/Creative Soundblaster PCI(ES1371,1373)

Last edited by George; October 5th, 2003 at 08:35 AM.
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