The reality of Karaoke?

[AllStar]

Oh yes, I am getting bitter. I am getting sick and tired of people pretending to be KJ’s.
Don’t people realize that to be a good KJ, you need more then just a mixer and a CDG player??

As a long time KJ I spend quite some time on the different karaoke forums. What I do notice is that there are always a lot of questions regarding “What do I buy?” That, I think is a very good starting point for a new KJ, what does bother me though is that nobody ever asks “What can I do to make the system sound good?”

You can have a crappy system (so to speak) and make it sound good, but without the right know-how, you can make a good system sound crappy. I am getting so tired of going to karaoke places just to be disappointed by a KJ that bought a low end system, a couple of disks from Wal-Mart and now hoping he/she can make a quick buck or 2 (Normally less then $100 per night)

The worst thing for me is to walk in a karaoke bar, seeing a great system, and then just to hear that the mix is absolute junk. Why does the music have to be louder then the mic?? Does that KJ never listen to music on the radio? If you are a KJ you should be proud of what you’re doing. Get up from your lazy butt from where you sit/stand when someone is singing and listen to sound QUALITY. Does it sound like the CD in your car? (Quality wise, not necessarily vocal wise) If not, learn how to mix. Another thing……….when you setup the mic you as KJ use for singing, give that same mic to your guests. Why are you as KJ using a great quality wireless mic when you sing, but your guest gets a crappy $29.00 mic??? This happens ever so often.

Remember people, not all singers are a bunch of drunks trying to impress their friends. There are a lot of serious vocalists out there.

[mikedomi]

i was reading your post

just one thing
about the kj mic
for us we would love to give great mic (wireless) to the singer but
and this is a big butt
because the whore kj is causeing the price of bar karaoke to drop
it makes it almos impossible to replace a broken mic evey week

when you are dealing with people who drink alot or people who try to be a star and throw the mic up in the air or slam it down on the table or drop it or any of the things you see in the bars after a while you learn not to put the best you have out for a bar show

what we do now is to get a way from wireless mic (for bar shows)

you can get very good wired mic for a lot less than 1 wireless
so when they break them it not as big of a loss to you
the bar will not pay for one of your mic

if they did i think you would see great mic every were
for the people who have been doing this for a long time

one other thing as far as a good mic for the kj who does not like having the best toy (LoL)

and we use to let people use our mics but we dont anymore
cant afford to get sick from some one who has a cold
since we stop giving out our mic none of us has gotten sick

for those of you who do this for a living and have to sing or host dont let anyone use your mic you will be one step ahead of the game

and yes there are very few kj/dj who have good sound and and
a great selction and in a way they are the people that keep us very bussy
because we have both and a rep for the best in town
i think in a way you should be glad about the crapie kjs
they make you look that much better
and then you can get more money for your show

just thinking out load
have a good day mike

[mlepine]

I can't agree more with Allstar!

it's the reason I don't go to Karaoke bars, I must of tried 10 different places & all of them have terrible sounds!!
What's good of having a nice software like Hoster when you have a Radio Shack Mixer, crapy speaker or good equipment but have do idea how to calibrate your equipment?

For those who would like some hint on how to adjust, you might want to check the www.yorkville.com site you will learn...

By the way, you are in the good thread if you want KJ's to read your post.

Regards

[George]

Why come down on KJ's when the entire recording industry seems to have forgotten how to mix? Maybe the poor KJ is just emulating what the "professionals" in L.A. and Nashville are doing these days.

How many songs do you hear these days that might as well not even have a lead singer? They're covered up anyway.

Must also be true none of you that are criticising the KJ have rented a video, or watched a movie on tv, or been to the movies lately. Seems like we've gone back to the silent era. All you can hear is the special effects, and basting what used to be background music.

Must be easy on the actors though, knowing they really don't have to learn the script, as no one can hear them anyway.

The entire industry needs to be censured, not just a relatively small group.

George

[AllStar]

Hi Y'all

We would really love to just go out and enjoy a karaoke night out once or twice a week, but looks like we just have to find our own gig in order to enjoy our singing.


To mikedombroski
I do not share my mic with anyone, for exactly the same reasons as you have (germs, booze and God knows what else???) but, and this is the big one, my mic and the guest's mic is exactly the same. When I start a show, and during a show, I remind people to treat my equipment with care, and if I see the slightest sign of abuse, I talk to that person immediately. I find that the guests really enjoy the wireless mic's, they get romantic with girlfriends or do a line dance with others. Maybe it's just the places we host, but I haven't lost a single mic yet, except for the one that I dropped in a swimming pool years ago.

To mlepine
Thank you!! Finally someone that understands my pain of having to listen to some of the yahoo's around here (there and everywhere)

George, George, George..........

Maybe the poor KJ is just emulating what the "professionals" in L.A. and Nashville are doing these days.
If the "professionals" jump of a bridge, will you follow them? I don't think so.

It has to do with pride in your job. I don't care what you are, a KJ or the person helping you at Wal-Mart. If it's worth doing, it's worth doing it well. If you want to do something, give it all or don't even bother.

[George]

ALLSTAR, ALLSTAR, ALLSTAR

No need to talk down to me about a comment offered as a possibility. Some people do what they perceive to be in vogue, and no, I am far from being a Leming.

George

[AllStar]

George

I am sorry if I offended you. That was not my intention at all.

I am just tired of the yahoo's out there claiming to be KJ's. Karaoke is so much fun, and should be enjoyed by all. Karaoke is not a way of making a quick buck. To be a good KJ you need dedication to the job.

[mikedomi]

you said
(Remember people, not all singers are a bunch of drunks trying to impress their friends. There are a lot of serious vocalists out there.)
first we have been in the dj business for over 20 years and all we have done in the 20 years is grown no **** show for us
we are as professional as it gets

this is another thing that is screwing up karaoke the serious vocalists
the person who says I cant hear my self
I want you to turn me up over the music
more reverb
if they want to be a star go to star search
go to Nashville but don't go to karaoke

it was made to have fun is was not meant to be a stepping stone
to being a star it was meant to be just a lot of fun
for the singer,kj,and the crowd
when you do get singers like that they are just a pain in everyone's ass!!!
we mix each singer and all our kj do a good job of it we don't sit on our ass

I want all your shows!! to say that you have never lost a mic is great for you
your lucky can you tell what tonight's lottery number is going to be
I would like to have some of your luck
we were the first company on the east cost to do karaoke when we first started we were getting 450-550 per show in the md,va dc area there was no one else for a year and we had no stars on stage just people who wanted to have fun that's it( that was the good old days when karaoke was fun)

now this is a another thing that screwed up karaoke.
was when cdgs came out you had a 15 dollar cdg and you had the 100 dollar laser disc which was the first thing karaoke was on we were all sorry to see the cdg come out
but we had to deal with it

this meant that everyone and their bother was getting in to it
because it was cheep to do and we have watched the price go down to 100 dollars for 4 hours

we wont do shows for any thing less then 200.00 dollars for 4 hours and they feed the kj and we work all the time

I guess the bottom line is I was kind of agreeing with you but I guess you did not see that

and you made such a big deal over the mic thing
you make me think you are a singer more than a kj
and you are pissed that you cant get a good mic in every show you go to. if it means that much to you
do what I have seen other singers do take one with you
ask the dj if he would let you use your mic when its your turn
anyway I am done with this thread
please if anyone has any thing bad to say about my post
kept it to your self
if you have an opinion please post it i would love to see it
but if you are going to use foul mouth or jump all over my opinion really kept it to your self

[George]

Allstar,

No harm done.

I think the whole issue is a matter of perception. Not that I don't agree with you to some extent, but it is much easier to be critical when one is looking at one's peers. It is much easier for a KJ to be critical of a KJ, or a bricklayer to be critical of another bricklayer.

The "reality of Karaoke" is in the patron's perception.

If a KJ has low end equipment, poor mixing, etc, and in spite of all the shortcomings that another KJ can see, possesses that rare charisma to attract people, hold their attention, and they enjoy themselves enough to keep coming back, then who's to say he's wrong?

George

I'd better add I'm not promoting my position. I'm not a KJ. I sing, and have been an audio bug for years. I appreciate good sound also.

[AllStar]

mikedombroski

You confuse me with your statements.

Firstly, You say that you are as professional as it gets, and in the same sentence you claim that it's the serious vocalists that screw up karaoke" Sorry, that doesn't make sense at all.

Secondly, if the KJ mixes propperly, and has a decent monitor speaker, he won't get questions like "I cant hear my self, I want you to turn me up over the music, more reverb"

And no, I'm not prepared to share my "luck" with you. Stop the sarcasm and you might find time to work on your own luck.

and you made such a big deal over the mic thing
you make me think you are a singer more than a kj

Maybe so, but when I go out to do karaoke, I expect the KJ to have good equipment. Not the KJ a $200 mic and the guest (who is, by the way the customer) a $19,99 Wal-Mart mic.

and you are pissed that you cant get a good mic in every show you go to.

You're right on that. See, we do agree on some issues.

but if you are going to use foul mouth or jump all over my opinion really kept it to your self

You, my dear friend, are the one using foul language, nobody else.

Greetings

[mikedomi]

first of all you keep talking about a 19.99 k mart mic do you have one ? i did not know they even sold them

we use sure 58 if you know anything about singing you will know what they are !!!

2) you said if we mixed right that we would not hear that .
that is were you give your self away
if you have been doing this as a kj for any length of time you would know just what iam talking about
the serious vocalists as you put it are the ones that no matter what you do for them you will never be right

3) if you were around for 5 years or more you would have seen the change in the karaoke singer and you would under stand

now if you were doing this for a living you dont mind seeing crapie
mic out there it just makes you look better
that is why i think
that you are just a singer sounding off at the kjs who dont meet up to your standard's thats ok you can do that we live in the usa
and you have that right

my point here is do you think ford is going to tell all the other
car makers around the world to put better motors in there cars
i dont think so

it sounds like you want every one to do it your way


i have no problem with you
just dont come in here demanding that the kj should meet your stnadards if they work for you thats fine

we all so book shows for a lot of kj i dont know of anyone who has a 19.99 kmart mic
most kj\dj here are all was trying to out do each other
you know keeping up with the jones

with your permission i like to put your post in our news letter
it goes out to the kj and dj that we book for. about 200 at last glance i think.
i would like to get there feed back
i would be glad to p.m you and tell you what they think
and if you want p.m me and i will put you on the mailing list for the news letter and you can really see whats happing in the dj\karaoke world
from time to time you will see parts of our news letter in mobile beat under whats happing in karaoke today
we have been quoted in there at least twice a year
for the past 5 years

all star (george) puts it in a nut shell for you
quote from george

The "reality of Karaoke" is in the patron's perception.

If a KJ has low end equipment, poor mixing, etc, and in spite of all the shortcomings that another KJ can see, possesses that rare charisma to attract people, hold their attention, and they enjoy themselves enough to keep coming back, then who's to say he's wrong?

and george let me tell you there are quite a few out there that like that
in closeing all star i hope you find and area that has the kind of karaoke you like and all the kjs have what you want
after all it was meant to make people happy not bitter
i hope you find the joy in karaoke you are looking for

i hope every one has a great day and a happy life

mike

[Lauraine Graham- with the Lord]

I would like to put in my tuppenceworth, if I may.

It is my experience that far too many KJs would not know a good balance if it came up and bit them somewhere where it hurts. When I do come across one that does I rejoice, and furthermore I let them know I appreciate the effort of their setting up properly and making sure the sound check is thorough. I also agree with George about the "music" and other noises in films being too loud, but that is another subject!

I agree with the vast majority of comment throughout this thread thus far. Especially the bit about once a KJ has set up he/she thinks that putting on the patron's disc is the only thing left to do, apart from collecting the money at the end of the evening, of course. A KJ is part of the entertainment, but a bad one can ruin perhaps the only night out for a week (or even longer) of a good portion of the clientelle.

It has not always been an advantage having once been a professional entertainer; one notices things which might otherwise have gone unobserved. Having said that, it is a source of constant joy and surprise just how much the general public knows and notices, how high their standards and how talented so many of them are. One always has to bear the irritation of the clowns who only get up when when they are nearly falling down drunk, but it has nearly always been worth it to hear the rest.

Good KJs are worth their weight in gold and I truly appreciate those I come across, as do the vast majority of patrons, and it is a wise venue manager who recognises these, and looks after them!

Having said all that the patron should also respect the KJ and the equipment. Some people can be extremely boorish and it takes much skill in handling them in the right way.

best wishes

[AllStar]

Hi Lauraine

Thank you very much!!

It is my experience that far too many KJs would not know a good balance if it came up and bit them somewhere where it hurts.

I hope more people read this. And yes, there is no better feeling then going to a karaoke bar and running into a KJ that knows his job.

I rest my case

[gotrich]

What are the tips or ways of knowig if your mixing good? Are their certain setting for small , medium large rooms? How do you know when you got enough reverb/delay in your sound? I also wonder how do you get a speaker to point at the singer without it scwelching? Can anyone answer the origional complaint. I strive to be the best I can. I try to be better than my competition but even more I try to be better than my last show. If I had a billion dollars aside from having better equip. I would still do this. If I had that money I would do it for free. I love being a KJ (even thouh I only done 6 shows. I practiced in my basement for a month before hand. Trying new things trying to be better than the night before. In my first show people asked if I do weddings and how great it sounded and how good I was doing...with all the compliments I didnt have the heart to tell them its was my first show.

Anyway I look to these forums for advice...so can anyone assist me?

Can the singer be too loud for the music or is there an exact level?

LOL I am sure if I had all of you in a room and asked your oppion each of you would think differently..LOL but I take everyones advice and try it and see what works for me, my crowd, and my bosses.

THANKS!
Rich
Dr Karaoke

[Lauraine Graham- with the Lord]

Rich

I beg your pardon, we all seem to have wandered fropm the point.

The way to get your sound and balance as good as you can get it is a mixture of hearing the dound and mix through headphones and from the floor. Each venue is different, and I'm afraid it sounds different again when the room is either enpty or full. As you have been smart enough to ask advice I gather you must be new to the business. You're on the right track, always ask someone. I also suggest you have a notebook or diary. One, to keep a note of the advice given and taken, and two to make a note of the settings you use on your equipment once you are happy with it. That way, if you are invited back you won't have to waste time guessing.

Now to the main point, how will you know if the settings and balance is right? I am making an assumption that you are reasonably bright, do not have any inconvenient difficulties with your hearing and that you have listened to quite a bit of various types of music so far. These points taken for granted your main aids will be your ears, your common sense and eqipment of as good a quality as your pocket can manage. When I started as an entertainer I wanted Bose but was not what I got, but the best I could afford and it served me well.

Arrive in good time to do a DO A THOROUGH SOUND CHECK when you set up. LISTEN to the audio on it's own, test the mics, LISTEN to the audio and your vocal TOGETHER. Stand out in the audience area if you can and LISTEN. People come to hear the vocals so don't drown them in the backing.

Remember that when you are satisfied this is only a starting point. Keep listening and adjust. Each song and each singer has a different. Use your headphones to hear the balance throughout the evening. Do NOT sit on your backside once you have set up thinking your job is done, it isn't, it has just begun.

I hope these points are helpful to you and I wish you luck and success.

[gotrich]

LOL my grandpa has hearing aids so if I have a bad night I tell em I forgot my g-pas miricle ear..LOL

Anyway thanks for the tip

what about a decible reader..I head you can use it to test the music and then the mic and set the mic 6db louder. Is this a good idea?

LOL I learned louder is not always better. I learned quickly after a song was much louder than the previous that its sounds better to fade up than bleeding ears and freak and reach to pull the mixer sound down...LOL

I alos notice for example the Joe Cocker You are so beautiful to me is much softer or quieter than most others...why is this..is there a way to make all songs the same level? Albiet its a romantic soft song but I gotta get it somewhat close to the singer...LOL

I love this!

Rich
Dr Karaoke

[Lauraine Graham- with the Lord]

Dear Rich

You are right inasmuch as louder is not necessarily better. Some songs have a lot of drive without volume and it is not always better to have romantic songs softer. There are so many things to learn that take time and experiment in order to gain experience. Unfortunately there is no substitute for experience. You have to trust your judgement and make time to listen to others' point of view, and somewhere along the line you will reach a comprimise that suits most, if not all.

I have an annoying hearing problem myself, something to do with lower frequencies, which sometimes makes it difficult for me to understand what people are saying if there is any background noise, but as far as volume is concerned I can hear the proverbial pin drop on the carpet. You see what I mean about annoying? However, one has to get over these little difficulties.

You carry on the way you're doing and you are sure to succeed.

best wishes

[Garry A. Leslie]

Hello All,
Being both a KJ and a singer at other people's karaokes, I know in my area there are a number of duds out there.
Saturday night was a prime example.
I sang a song only for somebody to tell me they couldn't hear me, (I knew I was struggling) because the backing was so loud and with an extreme level of reverb.
I listened to other singers that I know, and know they can sing well, and they were all subjected to the same treatment.
A number of them complained to the KJ, he just felt they were picking nits and took not the slightest bit of notice.
In the end a number of us left, partially deaf and extremely irritated by what should have been a good night, spoiled.
Some people just won't take advice, but I do know this KJ is losing more jobs than he's getting.
Regards from across the pond.
Garry

[mlepine]

Doesn't Hoster have the option to normalized each track you import?

Of course you can have some pro software that will let you bring your wave file all on the same level but I was under the impression that Hoster was doing that with the kma file?

Regards

[gotrich]

I didnt know about all the gizmos that MTUs Hoster had. I need to reimport my cd's because I have artist all over the place because I didnt realize the exactnes of the the spelling of the names when I had to type the track name and artist name. I also did know about the voulme leveling. I still not sure how to use it.

Rich
Dr Karaoke