Microsound used for National Symphony Orchestra

[geezer]

Well, I'm glad things are working for you, but shortly after I posted on this thread above, I started another one that indicated some limitations I was having with Microsound when I wanted to work entirely in 24 bit......You know, I assume, that when you "save as .wav" in Microsound, you are saving as 16 bit, because that is all there was in .wav when the code was written.

I am happy that you are able to use the Direct X software in MTU, because I paid for it and could never get it to work, and received no support for it, despite my long time as a cheeleader and beta tester.

I will say that I was satisfied with all my projects that involved a final, straight 16bit master....The problem arose when I began comparing all my available methods of converting from 24bit to 16, and when I began examining all the available ways to export and import 24 bit files from MTU and back into MTU. The company also never responded to my interest in defining the files in such a way as to use the Broadcast Wave standard for import and export.

Before I began what became a very long and involved comparison of different file dithering methods and different software editing packages, I held MTUs non-dithering math as the pinnacle of converting 24 bits to 16 bit files for CD....and, indeed, it held up really well through a lot of the research process as the standard to which I compared everything else.......In the end, however, I found other methodology (using some very specific dithering inside of very specific software) to be superior in maintaining the depth, color and stereo soundstage of the original 24bit files.

Since I could not use the DirectX function in Microsound and could not readily import and export files to other software, I also felt I had to find new software, if that were indeed possible. I did find some things that were suitable and usable for some parts of my business, but which definitely did not sound as good, at least in their early iteration.....I ended up finding one product (and I'm sure there are plenty of others out there now) which did sound as good, if not better, and which ultimately wound up being even faster to use and more flexible: Wavelab. Once I figured out how to use it, the interface was remarkably similar in some ways to MTU's (even uses some of the same hot keys), and easier to organize.

.....As a result, I have a couple of MTU systems (one including the 4 channel converters and I/O, if needed) that have been sitting on the shelf unused for several years. They are available for sale for any dedicated users.....These converters are all only 16bit, though........There are plenty of good quality 24bit converters out there now that should interface fine with the Krystal, but mine are available, too...

direct contact: mudsmith@earthlink.net

[Gary Boggess]

Originally Posted by geezer

Well, I'm glad things are working for you, but shortly after I posted on this thread above, I started another one that indicated some limitations I was having with Microsound when I wanted to work entirely in 24 bit......You know, I assume, that when you "save as .wav" in Microsound, you are saving as 16 bit, because that is all there was in .wav when the code was written.

I am happy that you are able to use the Direct X software in MTU, because I paid for it and could never get it to work, and received no support for it, despite my long time as a cheeleader and beta tester.

I will say that I was satisfied with all my projects that involved a final, straight 16bit master....The problem arose when I began comparing all my available methods of converting from 24bit to 16, and when I began examining all the available ways to export and import 24 bit files from MTU and back into MTU. The company also never responded to my interest in defining the files in such a way as to use the Broadcast Wave standard for import and export.

Before I began what became a very long and involved comparison of different file dithering methods and different software editing packages, I held MTUs non-dithering math as the pinnacle of converting 24 bits to 16 bit files for CD....and, indeed, it held up really well through a lot of the research process as the standard to which I compared everything else.......In the end, however, I found other methodology (using some very specific dithering inside of very specific software) to be superior in maintaining the depth, color and stereo soundstage of the original 24bit files.

Since I could not use the DirectX function in Microsound and could not readily import and export files to other software, I also felt I had to find new software, if that were indeed possible. I did find some things that were suitable and usable for some parts of my business, but which definitely did not sound as good, at least in their early iteration.....I ended up finding one product (and I'm sure there are plenty of others out there now) which did sound as good, if not better, and which ultimately wound up being even faster to use and more flexible: Wavelab. Once I figured out how to use it, the interface was remarkably similar in some ways to MTU's (even uses some of the same hot keys), and easier to organize.

..As a result, I have a couple of MTU systems (one including the 4 channel converters and I/O, if needed) that have been sitting on the shelf unused for several years. They are available for sale for any dedicated users.....These converters are all only 16bit, though........There are plenty of good quality 24bit converters out there now that should interface fine with the Krystal, but mine are available, too...

direct contact: mudsmith@earthlink.net

Good post! I have Wavelab 4.0, and I agree... it's pretty good... and you've made me look at it again because, I'm wondering... hmmm... you know... I never used it for ANYTHING except importing CD tracks!! !!!!!

What I like THE MOST about ME (MicroEditor) ... is the editorial inferface. Especially when used in the process of film audio post. But it's also a fantastic editor for music. I've tried other systems at other studios and I'm always eager to come home to MicroSound's sheer editorial PEACE and safety. I know I don't feel that way because I'm just used to it. I feel that way because it's just a great way to edit sound... any sound. I see all the bells and whistles on the other systems. But to me, editing and mixing is what ME does best. The effects are best done elsewhere... as I myself, rely on SoundForge for at least 50% of my vocal and special processing when I need to get specific. And for mastering... SoundForge is 100% the workhorse of choice.

Yes... I've found some of the options on MicroSound to be somewhat an obstacle course as compared to other programs. I will admit that I have found the entire 24bit deal a bit frustrating. I tried a few projects that way and as far as I'm concerned... it just isn't worth the trouble it causes. None of my clients want anything in 24 bit. When working on film... I worked 44.1 @16 bit. Why? Because while I'm importing hundreds of sound effects off of Sound Ideas and other libraries I can IMPORT right off the CD discs (via WAVELAB) into a folder, and import into MicroEditor without having to dither/convert Jack **it!

And as far as music. I've made my remarks at the Academy I often speak at. The labels can hardly sell a CD anymore. More and more music is selling to I-pods or free with all the online piracy schemes. So why bother with 24 bit... and then have to worry about dithering errors and degrading conversions to MP3's? I don't.

Firstly, my clientel moan and cry about every charge I write them... and they DO NOT want to pay the $25 I charge to BACKUP their projects to DVD's now. If I were burning 24bit, I have to add another $25 to cover my time burning twice the data... and then there's the time dithering to 16bit so they can have a couple copies to play for their girlfriends. Baloney!! I'm in agreement with Dave Cox... it's like "writing checks our ears can't cash." Yeah... I know... 24bit is better... cleaner... and it's HD. But the consumer will NEVER hear it! I have a $95,000 acoustically designed control room, with mirror image walls, floating walls and RTA flat response... and guess what?... the end user will never hear what I'm producing at 16bit 44.1Khz either!!!!

I'm happy with 16bit @44.1. It's more than 98% of the musicians I've ever worked with need, want or appreciate... and I'm talking about people who 15 years ago, didn't know what Dolby B or C or HXpro was when I asked which they preferred. I'd always get a big BLANK STARE that said... err what hugh?????

I don't mean to devalue your use and desire to work with 24bit. I'm just telling my experience with all this. I have a hard enough time keeping it profitable and efficient without adding my preferences for something that's NOT going to be appreciated anyway. And to cap it off, I'd rather invest time into the quality of the "material" and its artisic values... than worry about dithering squat. The probelm isn't the sound... it's the lack of good song writing, good concepts, decent budgets and musicianship or (in film) a dang script worth burning film on it. We're all recording clean crisp decent tracks... and for the most part... the reason why most of our productions stink is because of the talent and the writers. The other degrading factor I've been wrestling with in the last couple years is the idea that directors and musicians want the world for $69.95. And I'm not about to become the Earl Shieb of recording.

As for the FOUR channel I/O... I think I'd be interested and rather soon.... so if you want to pop me a asking price, MIDIandSFX@aol.com I'll give it thought. I have Krystal cards, so I'd need to know all was compatible. I just bought two MTU d/a converters off of Ebay for $9.95 each.

Yes... we've all encountered disappointments with MicroSound... and in the end... I still say... it's the best editorial tool I've seen... and at least for me, it has been extremely reliable. I only wish I could say the same for MicroSoft Windows XP Pro. The worst thing about all of it is Bill Gates.

www.boggessmusicandsound.com

[Rich LePage]

I agree with both of you, and us long-timers gotta keep in touch more often.
I for one also still use Medit nearly every day and find it my tool of choice for intensive editing. And we seem to do a lot of that!

Most of what we do continues as 44.1/16 bit, I've had nearly no situations where anyone has requested 24 bit audio. I never did get the Direct X part of Medit to work-- we tried many times with several versions, and it just did not work with any of the plug ins we tried it with.

Difference from Gary here is we don't use S/Forge for processing, instead Adobe Audition 2.0. It represents a pretty big re-design from 1.5, and though it sure can be a resource hog, it runs very intuitively. It's also very useful for restoration and similar work. The frequency/spectal editing parts of it often are useful in that. It's very handy too for compositing dialog music effects and then mixing to stems.

With some projects, I'll pre-edit in Medit and then build as multitrack in Audition. With others I just use it as a processing host and then take the stuff back to Medit for building etc.

Adobe is releasing Audition 3.0 which supposedly has some more improvements and hogs less resources, it will be shipping end of Oct.

I find Audition is a good host for the Waves and other Direct X and VST plug ins we use a lot - it also runs the Univ. Audio powered plugs well.

We have several 2 and 4 channel Medit systems. I only have one running on Win XP, the others all are still on Win ME or even Win98.

To accomodate the newer burners, I use MicroCD to create the master files but then Golden Hawk's CDRWIN to burn from. MicroCD always did use the Golden Hawk code, but DOS version.

However-- I think Golden Hawk may have just gone out of business! I ordered a renewal recently since they had a new Vista version of CDRWIN. The order did not process, and I tried calling them-- but the phone number is now someone else entirely not into audio! Sent several emails but no reply.

By the way, have had all sorts of trouble with MAM-A (form Mitsui) media past year or so. Where it used to be problem-free and consistent, no longer so. Though we still have hundreds of discs on hand, I doubt I'll buy more, have pretty much gone to Taiyo Yuden which seems more reliable. I check most anything leaving here on a Clover analyzer and with the MAM stuff, it's been very hit or miss. The distributor has said other clients have seen the same thing. And several replicators told me same thing too.

Gary, not sure about your tabletop modules and Krystal though I bet they would work. Scary though to try without word from MTU, since can't get the boards anymore. I think all that the rack mount did (if I remember right) was bundle the clock and I/O boards from the tabletop case into a rack mount module, with cables from the 1/8" mini jacks over to the XL's on the rack mount. I seem to remember converting one ages ago. But not certain!
I think the clock board was different from the 2 channel to the 4 channel versions too. But I hope MTU will get back to you with more definite word.

I have one Vista machine here (just recent, 32 bit version) and I wonder if Medit will run on that -- a lot seems NOT to run. Audition 2 does run, the new version claims it will be fully compatible. (currently it runs under Vista compat mode as an XP compliant program). The UA powered stuff does run, they have new software for it. But Waves -- NOT!! And they want you to buy their update plan just to get Vista compat. when they release it. (for the bundles we have, like $200+ a year for that). Not unreasonable I guess, but I think I'll wait on that one! Izotope Ozone DOES run (and they don't require that Ilok key either, you can authorize their stuff to a USB flash drive and go from system to system with it).

I have a Digidesign 002R interface that is seldom used. To be compatible with others, we set that up some time ago with ProTools LE -- which I nearly never use, though I upgraded it to version 7. I really don't like Pro Tools and will do most anything to NOT have to use it! (Spoiled by Medit, I guess!!)
Actually, it's on an AMD WinXP system that also has Medit on it. But you can't use 'em both at same time, there's a conflict. What I do is disable to Digi DAE engine in Device Manager and then Medit runs fine. For the rare time I need the Digi, I just re-enable it. Works, though you'd think it wouldn't.

So, when Digi gets Vista drivers, I'll likely use their box as an audio interface for the Vista machine - to run Audition. Either that or I'll just strip the Vista and put XP on it.

Quite a few of the Avid (Digi, M-Audio, et all) things don't support Vista currently. I'm also considering a Presonus Firepod.


But Medit still is my prime tool of choice for most of what we do. It's so intuitive and so fast to work with, and I continue to love it.

Hope you'll both stay in touch. My direct contact by the way is
richlepage@worldnet.att.net.

Best regards,

Rich

[Gary Boggess]

I'm open for a 2nd audio software alternative... but I just can't seem to feel sure about any direction.

My response (for safety) was to buy TWO backup PC computers off of Ebay. One PC is a motherboard and CPU CLONE of the last computer MTU made for me in 2005... a 2.8Ghz Intel cpu & board. The second, is a 550Mhz backup to my existing 233Mhz PC for my Microsync-based Microsound system that I use for soley for film audio posting. I also bought (2) extra Krystal cards off Ebay. All in all I can put together TWO more systems. Two FAST MicroSound systems for audio... and two slower "older PC" systems with MicroSync for film sound work.

MicroSync...
It was a painful SLAM in the gut (it felt lower) to me when the computer industry dropped the older I/O slots used by the MicroSync card, and thus adopting only PCI. I still think that if the industry wants to do this... then fine... but do it in such a way that the users can BUY interfacing to work around it. Insure backwards compatibility!!!!! You just don't leave people screwed out of their industry, their jobs, their work methods, their hardware investments and essential tools used for literal survival! I'm not a fan of Bill Gates for this very reason. I mean... hello!!!... we're all practically unwilling subsidiaries of MicroSoft as it is!!! And I resent being slammed into total obscurity & obsolescence by the mandates they author while hiding in their "safe sanctuary of isolation" provided by their monopoly over the entire world!!!!

ThIS iS CrAzy... but it works!
My original MicroSound DAW is a slower 233Mhz computer... and it's only used for sound effects design or film audio posting in sync with video, all because it hosts the MicroSync card. (I own two.)

You will find it interesting that I use the two working MTU computers NETWORKED. So that while I'm on the SLOW 233Mhz computer with MicroSync editing film sound, I can open and process .wav files across the network using the faster 2.8Ghz computer with SoundForge using all of the cool plug-ins. IT WORKS GREAT THIS WAY! Doing so, I find there's no real impact to being on the slower computer!!! The MicroSound performs MOST functions just as fast on either computer.

RE: MicroEditor & Drirect X Plug-ins...
Both of my working systems use the MicroEditor DirectX interface fairly well. Oh yes... there's a few plugins that don't work... but most do. I have a couple plugins that will only work WITH MicroEditor (one is Oberhiem OB-tune)... so what's up with that!!!!????

[geezer]

.....No way of knowing what's up with the Direct X since Dave and company never responded to my issues with it.

One of my two existent systems has the Microsync, too. I used it extensively on my first few years of posting projects for TV, which all involved analogue transfers. I stopped using it when Krystal happened, or rather it stopped being as useful if I was going directly I/O from Krystal via AES. I found out after questioning Dave extensively that Microsync is only reclocking the converters on the outboard I/O, so really is not chasing when you are using a digital interface.....In that sense, it is no more valuable than any of the better native time code interfaces which just jam sync. They and Microsync still provide a good time code lock as long as you have a good clock sync between time code or video from the video tape machine and the clock source for Microsound.

In fact, since Microsound does not have a dedicated word clock input, other devices (I have used the Rosendahl/Steinberg TimeLock Pro with Nuendo) provide you a much larger palette of syncing options with other, native systems. With a word clock input, a native card can stay reliably locked to a VHS tape via the Timelock Pro by just taking the video signal as the clock reference.....I posted a 90 minute show in Nuendo this way with a VHS HiFi work tape (time code on the right HiFi channel, scratch audio on the left), and things stayed locked for the whole show once the initial jam happened.....The true chasing of the analogue Microsync action is definitely cooler, but this, again, limits you to 16bit analogue land.

The reason I got so involved in the 24bit thing was that I mixed and/or conformed and mastered about 12 or 15 music concert DVDs with 5.1 and stereo mixes between 2000 and 2003 or so. The masters were delivered as 8 tracks of 24bit/48k audio (DA78). Microeditor was absolutely of no use on these projects, and only served as an ancillary CD mastering medium for a couple of them. Even track repairs I had to do on some of the projects could not be done easily in Microeditor without tedious transfer times and tricky hand placement of repaired tracks.....I spent years asking for the functions in Microeditor that would allow for utilizing it on these projects, and never got any action on these requests......I also never got a decent explanation of how to get tracks as files back into Microeditor (as Rich seems to be able to do) from anyone here.....perhaps that is only because I wanted to be able to do it at 24bits.

One other interesting other piece of rare MTU software I do have that was quite useful in my early posting experience with MicroEditor is "MicroEDL". I don't know that anyone but me ever used it. This was a program that Larry developed on my specs before leaving for greener pastures. This program would take a linear editor's ("C" format) text file for a 4-channel audio edit and apply it to a 4 channel project with time code in MicroEditor, which allowed me to take a 4 channel stream from an early Avid editor with all level edits removed and chop it up and remix it and edit it properly once the basic offline edit was done......I used that for sure on the Hollywood Blacklist thing that won the Emmy (not for sound, but for the show), and delivered the mix on DA88 to the post house without them ever touching it before it hit air.......So that allowed me a certain amount of compatabiltiy with old-style post houses and pre-5.1 mix needs.

But this was as far as MTU got, and I think that was around 1996 or 1997. Nuendo started early on with the capability for OMF file imports and exports and multitrack output (although flawed in its original implementation), and I had a lot more file compatabiltiy right at the start with video post people, who no longer wanted to deal with the time it takes to do a real time 4 channel output......I did have to buy other file translation software to make things totally right, but at least that was possible with the other programs. Nuendo originally did not sound as good as MicroEditor for sure, but Wavelab did (and Wavelab now does 8 channel i/O and DVD-A mastering), and Nuendo is probably in the same ballpark now, along with Audition and virtually everything else......The writing was on the wall in 2000 for me, and I had to jump ship once I found the workable alternatives.

The only software packages I have felt pretty strongly about the integrity of are Wavelab (single programmer, different from the Nuendo team) and Adobe Audition....perhaps because a former intern of mine is on the Audition team. I think things are probably better at Steinberg now since Yamaha bought them, though, and Cubase, their least expensive product, is preferred by many to be superior (and does, in fact, get the upgrades to its audio engine before Nuendo does)......I have heard very good things about the sonic quality of the Samplitude line of products, but have never directly used them.....In all my casting about, Wavelab always came up with the most intuitive interface (inside the Audio Montage section), with Adobe Audition running a close second for the multitrack programs.....There are plenty of people who like Cakewalk/Sonar, too. They all have their quirks, but are all more stable than they were in the early 2000s when I was researching things heavily.

I really resisted putting my Microeditor systems on the shelf, but did not really have a choice.

If any other old timers or new timers want to contact me directly for fun or profit or just plain geezer jawboning:

Jim Smith- mudsmith@earthlink.net

[Rich LePage]

You're right Jim about getting nowhere with the 24 bit. What I have done is bring in 16 bit SF files to Adobe as RAW digital audio (per their selection) and then do whatever to them, but I then write 'em out as 16 bit WAVs so they can go back to Medit.

I seldom even do that, it's a hassle and you have to remember which "Raw" variant to use --or play around with it till it works. Instead, I usually just do a first pass edit in Medit to pull any desired "good" stuff together, and save that stuff out as a 16 bit WAV. If there are multiple takes of good stuff that I want to carry through, I just save those out separately.

Then I move it to Audition if it needs more fine tuning and/or if I'm building a multitrack with the material. Its click removal tools and the freq. and spectral editing have been very helpful at times.

It also has reasonable automation, though it does have its downsides.
I have actually run that in version 2 with one of those cheap Behringer fader controllers. (in USB mode) Though not easy to implement (partic at the Behr end), it does work OK for fader levels, mutes and a few other basic things plus transport control. I'm sure it could do more, but I ain't a MIDI programmer. It's handy once in a while, but not a setup I use regularly that way.

Beyond that there are clip envelopes you can use quite effectively, for level and panning. They stay with each clip/segment unless you clear them. So does another basic way of setting level and pan in the multitrack. ("clip properties") The other automation does not really stay-- if you insert or delete time or content from the session, it messes that flavor of automation up. But with that style, you can automate much more than level and pan. I think I did it once to do some back/forth EQ moves. But you could easily do same thing by just splitting the stuff across checkerboarded tracks probably.
That's what I usually do -- in fact, spent all day today doing that with some stuff from Japan that was all over the place.

I mostly use the clip based envelopes, which are a little like MTU amp zones, though a little harder to use. I seem to find them easiest to use with a pen tablet though. I use Audition with both a Wacom tablet for my right hand (mouse and pen come with) and a Kensington trackball for my left hand. I'm right-handed, but ages back I got comfy using Medit with left hand for pointer operations, also using a Kensington ball. I'm actually faster that way in Medit than using a right handed ball or mouse or whatever. That way, right hand is for keyboard and in Medit, often for macro commands.

Dual monitors also helps Audition somewhat, you can have the mixer and/or the plug ins on one screen and the main project view on the other. I've been running it with 2 "wide" Benq 19" monitors when doing multitrack work. The Edit View simply winds up on 1 screen usually. You can save multiple screen setups in Audition also.

On dialog, I seem to be able to get out mouth clicks and also lessen plosives like popped Ps etc easier using Audition than what I used to do in Medit. But not always so. It's a "remove single click" routine that was in earlier versions, but did not seem to work as well -- or as fast -- as in Audition 2.0. And easy enough to undo if you took out too much, one click to undo (and multiple undo levels)

But sometimes Medit using 2 segs crossfaded does it fine too. For breaths I usually reduce or cut them in Medit, using a variety of macros. But they are not hard to do in Audition at all either. Often I re-pace a lot of dialog to make it fit hit points, or a music/effects bed, or just to make it flow better. Both Medit and Audition can do this well - though I suppose I'm faster still with Medit.

Audition's time squeeze (used sparingly, and you can set up constant or varying for all or part of a file) really saved a client with a project that just would not fit to the max CD length their replicator quoted of 76 minutes without them signing waivers in case it didn't play for end users. (which they wouldn't do since it was going out all over the world) I was able to get it down to about 75.20 without any bad artifacts/burbles by messing with it and doing in multiple sections. I was fairly impressed with that.

It's de-noising (template style like what Dave was doing) also seems to work
pretty well, used sparingly. The stuff I got in from Japan had various hum and junk in some of it, and I got it down quite a bit by using that sparingly. Also was able to retrieve some dialog a client recorded on a mini-recorder that I guess was in a purse or something and everything pretty crappy sounding. But in that case, even though it had some def. artifacts, at least you could make out what was being said (though I couldn't, it was in German!!)

You can output 32 bit files from Adobe, but I just looked in their "convert sample type" screen and there's no selection for 24 bit there, just 8/16/32.
The samp rate choices do also go out to 192K, but no 24 bit in there that I could find. There's also no option for 24 bits in the record screens.

Here's something interesting (to me at least): As a result of your post, I just
went and tried typing in 24 bits into the box that offers 8/16/32. This would convert (in theory) a 44.1/16 WAV file into 192K, 24 bit per what I selected. After several minutes of number crunching, scaling, pre and post filtering etc etc-- done at 32 bits -- it now says it made a 192K 24 bit file. Hmmmm. Gotta play with that one some more! Alas however, opening the "stats" on it sez it's 32 bits, not 24.... And it really maxed out the Vista dual core machine I've been playing with in running that.... its "performance" gauge was WAY up there, though it did it. Took maybe 3 minutes.

Geez- the source file I was fooling with (44/16) was 168MB, the resulting new file is 1.27GIGS.

However, they claim version 2 (and prob ver 3) DOES handle Broadcast WAV files. I've just never done it. Apparently by that (from the help) they are talking about saving and/or preserving any metadata in the file, they also can handle XMP, which the help sez is Extensible Metadata Platform. They also say it can use the embedded BWF timestamp to insert a file into their editor.
There are some commands for it and windows for inputting metadata.

Again, my only ref is Audition 2.0 though-- maybe version 3 expands the capabilities - will find out when it shows up. You could ask the guy who you used to work with more about the 24 bit situation, too.

Great that you both posted and will look fwd to hearing more from ya.
Hope all this helps. Audition isn't used much in the circles of folks I seem to run across, but it seems pretty good for what it does. I was worried Adobe was going to drop it- because even with version 2, a lot of their "suite" stuff like Bridge and Font Capture and Gamma get installed. But now they seem to be leaning to developing it more -- as a stand-alone, non-suite product.
Some of the other stuff it installs def. slows the machine down - but I used something called Startup Commander in XP to tweak what starts with Windows and what doesn't load and that seemed to help a lot. But version 3 claims it will hog less resources too - we'll see.

Rich

[geezer]

Well I was rooting around in my barn today because I'm transferring all my gear into the new building my wife and I bought (her store is downstairs, and just opened, so I can start doing my rooms upstairs now). I discovered, and remembered, that I actually still have 2 of the 4 channel I/Os, plus the tabletop. Also, I got the tabletop with a used Krystal rig I bought, and it does interface with it just fine....The one I got supposedly had some sort of upgrade done to the converters, I think, but who knows. The 4 channel interfaces with Krystal, for sure.....I used it that way for years. The second 4 channel unit came with the third machine I had, but I just remembered that I sold the card to Geg Hopkins a while back....He did not want the I/O.

Wavelab (I'm currently using 5 and will get 6 soon) is a very quick transition from Medit, and, as I've said, is probably faster. The same kind of unlimited, non destructive, unfettered editing is the name of the game, with the addition of having full time, accurate waveforms to work with that even respond to the results of overlapping segments in a very useful way....The addition of the "track lanes" just ends up giving you another organizational tool and doesn't lay any of the limitations of a lot of the multitrack programs on you. Because of the tracks and the free overlapping on them, I usually end up with a lot less segments (called "clips" in Wavelab) stacked up to get a similar complexity that I would get in Medit....It is simply easier to stay organized in Wavelab......Wavelab's volume envelope is very nifty, too: you can create an unlimited number of adjustment points within a clip, and this is a lot easier and more fluid than Medit's similar function. I end up having to split clips less, and can create much more elegant crossfades between clips as well.....This all became more clear when I realized I could disable a lot of the automatic crossfading functions available in Wavelab and work in the more deliberate fashion I am used to.....The built-in CD mastering and burning program is way beyond Medit's, as well, and super easy to use.

Like all the other native programs, you don't get that instant 40db of gain that you get in Medit (only 6 db without processing), but this has not slowed me down any......All in all, it only took me a few days to become totally comfortable and fast in it while applying the same working methods I used in Medit. The transition was so easy that I really didn't learn a lot of the functions for a very long time.......As I have said before, the key was realizing that all the good action was in the "Audio Montage" area of the program, which the manual did not emphasize....Once I realized that that was the ticket, it was smooth sailing.

As far as the 16/24 bit and higher sampling rate thing: I can tell you that my CD masters these days that are mixed at 24 bits on a mixer that is fully 96k capable, whether I mix them at the higher sampling rate or not, are definitely better sounding than the stuff I was mixing and mastering before. The earlier stuff, though good sounding, sounds a little band-limited to me now....This extra range even translates down to the MP3s.....I will add, however, that things are sometimes tougher to control with this hugely dynamic and extended range medium....There are times I wish I was still mixing on the original O2R, even if the high end wasn't as pretty or extended....It was easier......I just hear everything now, and that sometimes leads to great anguish. The albums that sounded good on the O2R still sound good, so.....On the other hand, some of the work I have done has only started to sound really good when I have actually mixed it analogue in and out at 96k (using external converters to get it back down to 44.1). The DM2000 really kind of sounds like a big, expensive analogue console when you do this at times.....I never know what is going to sound best....I sort of hate having so many choices to make now.....This "all analogue, but digital" choice does seem to round off some of the extreme dynamic spikes, however, and make things easier for some projects.....It works differently for different recorders and different converters.....too many choices....

Although I own Audition (2.5?), I haven't really used it much.....similarly, I upgraded to Nuendo 3, but have really only used it to organize Pro Tools HD files for my MX2424s, which was pretty simple, intuitive and fast with 3 hours of 32 track studio recordings. I did have an interesting experience with N3 when I put those files together for the MXs: Nuendo converted them to 32bit, I think, which made them sound pretty odd on the MX.....I was able to just substitute the orignal PTHD 24bit BroadcastWave files into the appropriate folder, and all things were put right again......I've also mastered really good sounding albums recently that were recorded entirely in Cubase on a Mac laptop....Too much

Perhaps the most interesting piece of newer gear in my rig is the Alesis HD24XR....Cheap as dirt, simple as all get out, uses cheap IDE drives, but the converters on the XR sound pretty good (better than the standard unit)....I recorded my son's Death Metal band on it, and coming out of it analogue into the DM2000 at the normal (44.1) sample rate really kicked ass. I'm still kind of shocked, to tell you the truth. It's really funny how different sets of converters and recorders manage to sound......Interesting thing about this unit is that there is a Yahoo users' group where a third party donation-ware software interface has appeared that allows great, easy transfers of the proprietary file format into .wav or .aif into ye olde computer.....Although it is clear that there will never be any upgrades, there are tons of these things out there, and they work, and they are still making them.

Anyway, there sure is a lot to work with out there today.....and I'm still willing to get off my MTU stuff....make me an offer.

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