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  #101  
Old February 16th, 2010, 11:22 AM
ddouglass ddouglass is offline
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Gentlemen lets keep this on subject which is the cases in Virginia. If you do not have something to add to that subject do not post it in this thread.
Personal attacks will not be tolerated in any of the Forums by MTU or myself.
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  #102  
Old February 26th, 2010, 05:51 PM
Ragnar35 Ragnar35 is offline
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Re: The Lawsuits Have Started In Virgina

It would appear that Sound Choice is fishing with a large net. How, exactly, do they verify that a KJ who performs at a bar with a computer DOESN'T have a legal CDG for each computer file they play in a bar?

I may have missed something, but it does appear that they served a large number of bars and KJs with a lawsuit, forcing them to defend themselves, without any evidence to prove that the KJs were operating illegally.
  #103  
Old February 27th, 2010, 02:11 AM
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Re: The Lawsuits Have Started In Virgina

You hit it right on the head. No evidence.
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  #104  
Old February 27th, 2010, 11:01 AM
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Re: The Lawsuits Have Started In Virgina

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Originally Posted by ddouglass View Post
You hit it right on the head. No evidence.
I'm waiting for this thing to backfire on Sound Choice with an innocent kj suing SC for slander and other charges, but in reality, as i have stated numerous times, I believe that the percentage of at least one illegal file in a KJ's files is pretty high. Years ago before all of this illegal and legal things were happening, little thought was given to the illegality of exchanging a few copied disk with friends or even fellow kj's as This was before legality of the hard drive or computer issue we deal with now.At that time, i'm sure no one considered it illegal.
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  #105  
Old February 27th, 2010, 11:15 AM
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Re: The Lawsuits Have Started In Virgina

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Originally Posted by Ragnar35 View Post
It would appear that Sound Choice is fishing with a large net. How, exactly, do they verify that a KJ who performs at a bar with a computer DOESN'T have a legal CDG for each computer file they play in a bar?

I may have missed something, but it does appear that they served a large number of bars and KJs with a lawsuit, forcing them to defend themselves, without any evidence to prove that the KJs were operating illegally.
Civil suits aren't innocent until proven guilty. They are merely a preponderance of evidence. Just ask OJ It doesn't even do you any good to plead the 5th. Then the judge only hears one side and still has to decide the case. Big business does this to the little guys all the time. Just sue them until they run out of money. You can't get a Public Defender like you can in a criminal case. The one with the deepest pockets usually wins.
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  #106  
Old February 27th, 2010, 12:39 PM
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Re: The Lawsuits Have Started In Virgina

But Mark what "evidence" do they have? Someone in there employee went to the person's show, saw asinger singing a Sound Choice song, photographed the entry in the Songbook and with that they sue?? They have tried this before and had it thrown out of court for lack of evidence.
They are desperate and trying to get people to give them money by blackmail period.
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  #107  
Old February 27th, 2010, 01:10 PM
Musicman51 Musicman51 is offline
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Re: The Lawsuits Have Started In Virgina

The little guys relief is rather simple. You take the verdict, file bankrupt, and be done with it..yes you can do this under a civil suit. Plead you are insolvent, and indigent. And you're rid of it. However, that won't help you next time, unless they bust you 8 years later..lol

But this point is actually moot anyway. As sound choice and their "Paid By Case Win" lawyers will not be taking any cases to court. It's to their advantage, and only profitable to them, if you do something stupid like sign something, and settle out of court.

Kurt has said on another forum, i have a copy of the post. That their purpose is not to fight piracy, but to simply recoup their loses because of piracy. Big difference. It's a money thing, not a moral thing to them. He said in so many words he's too busy to fight piracy, it's not his job.

You will be able to count on one hand the cases that actually go to court. Visit the court website, and read the rather sloppy court filings that sound choice {attorney} filed, the author of this thread has posted them. It reads like one long SC infomercial. If this whole situation wasn't so sad..it would be hilarious.
  #108  
Old February 27th, 2010, 01:17 PM
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Re: The Lawsuits Have Started In Virgina

Here's something i found on another forum on this subject. I wish i could take credit for it but i can't. But i found it very truthful and a very good point. This author was refering to several disc that sound choice manufactured, without first securing the legal rights to do so. One in particular was the eagles disc, that not being the only one however.


Quote:
IMHO, I think SC has perpetuated the world's biggest snow job on most KJ's.
Everyone seems to want to waive the flag as though SC is the most honest,
upstanding, sterling company that ever existed and that they are somehow only an
innocent "victim" in the piracy problem. Wake up and smell the coffee, they are
not. They are not doing anything now that champions the legal KJ and is out to
slay the pirates... exactly the opposite; they will leave the legal KJ's alone
and simply sell discs to the pirates. They're not out to put pirates out of
business, they are out to sell them $6,500 worth of discs.... period.
  #109  
Old February 28th, 2010, 01:19 PM
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Re: The Lawsuits Have Started In Virgina

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Originally Posted by ddouglass View Post
But Mark what "evidence" do they have? Someone in there employee went to the person's show, saw asinger singing a Sound Choice song, photographed the entry in the Songbook and with that they sue?? They have tried this before and had it thrown out of court for lack of evidence.
They are desperate and trying to get people to give them money by blackmail period.
You are absolutely right, but lack of evidence doesn't stop people from filing lawsuits. I have been sued several times in my 20+ years in the bar business. All but one of them were absolutely ludicrous. Even that one was a pretty big stretch. I have defended myself on all these occasions, but I wouldn't recommend that for most people. I have been lucky enough to get all of them in small claims where it is less formal.

In the best case scenario, you have to spend at least a couple hundred on a lawyer to get this thrown out. Who has to pay for this? You do. Even in my cases I had to spend a lot of my valuable time getting all my ducks in a row. The worst thing you can do is come to court unprepared. In business, you weigh the risk/reward for all your decisions. When you decide to file suit against someone there is very little, if any, risk involved in suing someone. The rewards, on the other hand, can be great.

There are people out there that make their living suing people. I used to work for a property management company that did low income housing. We were sued by a "consulting" firm under the Americans with Disabilities Act. When it was all said and done, we made no changes to the accessible unit for the wheelchair bound tenant because she was happy to start with and didn't want anything changed. The "consulting" firm made $25k to continue their "advocacy" for the disabled.
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  #110  
Old February 28th, 2010, 01:38 PM
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Re: The Lawsuits Have Started In Virgina

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Originally Posted by Musicman51 View Post
Here's something i found on another forum on this subject.
Do you remember when SC moved their custom disk operation to Australia? They did so to circumvent the copyright holders in the US. There are others, but one example is the Beatles catalog. Most have not been released for Karaoke in the US. In Australia, they merely pay a standard rate and can do any song they so chose. Then just mail it to the US. No US laws have been broken until it is used in a show. Let the KJ break the law by performing it in public.
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  #111  
Old February 28th, 2010, 04:12 PM
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Re: The Lawsuits Have Started In Virgina

Quote:
In the best case scenario, you have to spend at least a couple hundred on a lawyer to get this thrown out. Who has to pay for this? You do. ]
I'm sure some guys would much much rather spend $200 or so, then $6,500. But that aside, SC is counting on you to settle, that is the only only way they get anything. Here in michigan a couple of years ago, they tested the waters here, and of course lost. It was a slightly different scenerio, but they still lost. And i predict they will in this instance as well. Their lawyers will make a few bucks, and so will SC off the ones they strong arm. But thats about the long and short of it.

My advice, learn to live with the pirates. Once a pirate gets a smell of that easy money, all the law suites in the world won't git shun of them. They will just move around, and pop up someplace else. Just like the illegal DJ's have been doing since a front loading table top CD player with effects was invented. They're sadly...still here.

I actually don't see it as a direct problem to me, a pirate could never get a foot into the club i'm in. But with that being said, i have talked to many many kj's across the country. Believe it or not, most actually aren't worried about pirates..really. There are a few so so kj's that claim to have been put out by a throat cutting pirate. But after a short conversation with a few, i wonder if that is really the case, or simply a poor performer..hard to say.

I have actually accepted the fact that it's going to be part of the business...and i gotta just learn to deal with it. Do i like it? of course not. But like it or not, they're right here to stay buddy boy. Sound Choice seems to be having a melt down because of so called "lost profits". But, you don't hear a peep out of any other manu, or provider. I think it's all one big money making fiasco...And i will go out on a limb and make another prediction. Sound Choice's download joke {site} will be a losing proposistion as well...Just too many guy's P.O'd.

I know right now, sound choice hasn't done one thing to me, or anyone i am associated with in this business..yet we all still woundn't buy a disc from them if it were pressed in gold. Thats what SC has created across the country.....
  #112  
Old March 4th, 2010, 03:52 AM
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Re: The Lawsuits Have Started In Virgina

This is a reprint from a post I had read on piracy and the music industry


It is sad but predictable to see John Prior (Letters, August 10) trotting out the old fallacy about music that we buy a product encumbered with a licence.
Let us walk through my most recent purchase. I strolled into the store, located the CD I was after, paid for it in cash and left. At no stage was I asked to sign a licensing agreement - not even a post-sale agreement like those for software. It was a simple transaction of cash for a physical product.
”No,” cries the music industry, ”you are bound by the licensing agreement that you did not sign and that we cannot produce for inspection.”
Fine - let’s suppose I now have a licence for personal use applying to all the CDs I own. I should be able to take advantage of that. A CD I bought 10 years ago now has a scratch down the middle so that five of the 10 songs refuse to play. Luckily for me, this problem is solely with the physical medium. After all, my licence for personal use should allow me to reacquire ”my” content, especially since it is digital data and can be reproduced an unlimited number of times at virtually no cost.
”No,” cries the music industry, ”you bought a product, not a licence. You are not entitled to a free replacement, you need to buy it all over again. And when you do, you will be covered by another identical licence. Until something happens to this new physical medium.”
David Jack Leichhardt
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  #113  
Old March 4th, 2010, 11:36 PM
Musicman51 Musicman51 is offline
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Re: The Lawsuits Have Started In Virgina

So So true marklwood. Scratch one, your loss. Now, just as a side note. Nothing at all to do with the licence situation you are speaking of. But chartbuster, will replace any CDG disc they produce if you scratch it or it gets broken for 5 bucks. Back when i was still using disc full time. I had a drunk come up to the karaoke table, he picked up a cdg and he dropped its. Gouged it pretty good, it rolled across the dance floor. Took him 3 tries to keep his balance and pick it up. It was part of a box set. Thank goodness it was a chartbuster disc. Then of course chartbuster said they didn't have just the single disc #4 of that box set. I jumped their case, and they gave me the entire box set for 5.00 shipping not just the single disc. But like i said, nothing at all to do with what you are speaking of, as far as fair use replacement. You make a very valid point.
  #114  
Old March 5th, 2010, 05:24 AM
Lonman Lonman is offline
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Re: The Lawsuits Have Started In Virgina

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Originally Posted by Musicman51 View Post
So So true marklwood. Scratch one, your loss. Now, just as a side note. Nothing at all to do with the licence situation you are speaking of. But chartbuster, will replace any CDG disc they produce if you scratch it or it gets broken for 5 bucks. Back when i was still using disc full time. I had a drunk come up to the karaoke table, he picked up a cdg and he dropped its. Gouged it pretty good, it rolled across the dance floor. Took him 3 tries to keep his balance and pick it up. It was part of a box set. Thank goodness it was a chartbuster disc. Then of course chartbuster said they didn't have just the single disc #4 of that box set. I jumped their case, and they gave me the entire box set for 5.00 shipping not just the single disc. But like i said, nothing at all to do with what you are speaking of, as far as fair use replacement. You make a very valid point.
They will only replace discs that are currently manufactured. Sound Choice has that same policy as well. These are the only 2 companies I know of that offer this replacement policy.
But as far as a scratch goes, as long as it is not on the label side, it is fixable. A scratch on the label side or a flat out crack is a dead disc.
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  #115  
Old March 5th, 2010, 09:29 AM
Musicman51 Musicman51 is offline
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Re: The Lawsuits Have Started In Virgina

Quote:
They will only replace discs that are currently manufactured.
yeah...i would'nt think they {Manufacture} could replace a disc they don't have, or no longer produce..lol Although subing another one would be a good show of faith. But as far as sound choice goes, never had them replace a thing for me, and i have inquired a couple of times, a few years ago. They said no can do. I dunno.
But up 'round these parts we are all just about to pull all sound choice products from our notebooks anyway. Monday morning 9 of us independents are going to have yet another meeting over coffee, and are going to hash it out. They all want to stick together and dump Sound Choice, and have a "Disc Fry" and put it on you tube and invite the television stations and newspapers. ah we'll see....
  #116  
Old March 6th, 2010, 06:01 AM
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Re: The Lawsuits Have Started In Virgina

I've only needed to replace 3 SC discs, but they were replaced in a timely manner, had to send the damaged disc along with the shipping cost (per discs) & recieved a new one in less than a week. One of the 3 were actually a Mediacloq disc I needed that was re-released without it. Never had to use the CB policy yet.
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  #117  
Old March 8th, 2010, 12:03 PM
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Re: The Lawsuits Have Started In Virgina

I said on this forum a couple of times, that there is a right way and a wrong way about doing something. That not only holds true for the sleps, but for us as kj's in this industry. Someone, whom i've never met before, and i have no idea who he or she is. Sent me this blog page concerning Sound Choice. Now, i've kided around calling them the slep castpo and gang and that type of thing. But i would never post something like this. And i think just like the sleps, this kind of thing does more harm then good. You can decide for yourself. If dale decides to take this link down, that would be fine by me. However,i think it is just one persons view. And not necessarily mine. Free speech i guess. But i would bet anything the person who made this page was illegal and got busted.

http://www.soundchoicesucks.com/
  #118  
Old March 28th, 2010, 10:53 AM
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Re: something new about this legalities

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Originally Posted by billyo View Post
Sound Choice might not be paying royalties to the artist and producers who made the original songs,and or may not have enough funds to pay them so they going after KJ's to get that MONEY to pay the original artist and KIAA is going along with them to get some, the latter ( bold letters ) is just my opinion
Ever notice how some songs have a few lyrics that are wrong, or where the music has sections that are a little different from the original version?

This is what karaoke companies do when an artist (or their publisher) refuses to give authorization for their songs to be made into karaoke.

Supposedly, this is perfectly legal when a certain percentage of the song/ music is different from the original.

I heard this years ago, and there's gotta be some truth to it, otherwise why would karaoke companies make some songs with what most people would call errors due to being considerably different from the original.

I heard this from somebody who claimed to be good friends with a studio musician who has worked for Sound Choice on numerous projects where they planned to make sections of certain songs to be different than the originals.

Anybody ever hear about this?

Last edited by Rockrz; March 28th, 2010 at 11:07 AM.
  #119  
Old March 28th, 2010, 12:12 PM
billyo billyo is offline
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Re: something new about this legalities

[quote=Rockrz;100049]Ever notice how some songs have a few lyrics that are wrong, or where the music has sections that are a little different from the original version?

Quote:
This is what karaoke companies do when an artist (or their publisher) refuses to give authorization for their songs to be made into karaoke.
in my opinion, i don't think that's true, otherwise most of these cdg companies would be doing this, i think they are not paying or may not have enough funds to pay the original producers/artist.and that is just my opinion, and i dont mean to imply anything.

Quote:
Supposedly, this is perfectly legal when a certain percentage of the song/ music is different from the original.
no matter how little percentage of the songs/ music they changed, it's still not legal for them to change it.if you look at most of the songs on every disc they produced ,they always list the name of the original artist,
how would we know who did the songs on some of the older songs, without them putting the name of the artist on the label
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Last edited by billyo; March 28th, 2010 at 12:17 PM.
  #120  
Old March 28th, 2010, 02:40 PM
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Re: The Lawsuits Have Started In Virgina

If you've ever followed an artist that sues another artist for copyright infringement, claiming they are copying their song, it usually comes down to how large of a percentage is the alledged stolen song is like the original that determines who wins the case.

They actually have some sort of formula that figures this out and I think they do this with some software program.

Sure, on karaoke discs they like who the artist was and maybe who the publisher is that holds the rights to the song...but that doesn't mean the karaoke producer paid to re-produce the song on karaoke.

I've heard for years (nobody can prove this except for the karaoke producers, and they won't) that many of the karaoke producers, including Sound Choice, don't always pay license fees because there are ways around having to pay this expense and still not get the britches sued off of them.

It's be just like Sound Choice to screw the artist / publisher, and then turn around and claim some KJs are screwing them. Maybe they are reaping what they've sown
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