Are KJ's Professional?

[bryant]

Just remember: It's all good!

[peppe]

my husband and I do kj/mc and have a classic rock/blues band here in naples italy. Its a unique situation that actually lends itseelf perfectly to this discussion. For example...we were hired by the american military to entertain a large aircraft carrier that had come into port, we have a large private park here for the troops, they sat up a large tent and had our band along with one other band, plus our karaoke and a dj playing dance music. The DJ was in another tent in a lower part of the park. sorry for the details but its important to my point. we were scheduled to play for 4 days in a row. the bands played starting at 5 finished at about 7 then karaoke till about 11pm. SO, the first day we went by the schedule, BUT....the whole time the bands played all the sailors were asking WHEN IS KARAOKE GETTING STARTED?? well needless to say, we were called in at 12 NOON to start karaoke for the last 3 days of the event, it went over like beer at a fraternity party. they didn't want the bands they didn't want the dj. in fact the dj didn't even play after the first 2 days. We have found over and over again, because I try and book the band as much as for the karaoke, Karaoke is #1 with all. we now have continuous gigs through september 3 times a week just to satisfy the military public here. it amazing and fun and exciting!!!! I wouldn't trade it for the world.

Wendy and Peppe JOKEY KARAOKE, NAPLES, ITALY

[bryant]

Very interesting!
FYI: My show has grown to 6 times a week, and might hit seven by late this spring. I never wanted that much work, and would never do it with disks, either. Thanx to the Hoster staff we have Hoster.

[bobcox- with the Lord]

I am a kj not a dj, although i will play some dance music if need be.
when i see a pro DJ he is the one playing and scratching and making his own mixes. two turntables/ cd player mixing on the fly. these guys are pro DJs.
what i see in my area is guys playing out of a laptop and letting the program
fade to next song. or playing from a cd just one song after another.
these are NOT pro DJs.
seems anyone with some equipment and can play some CDs calls himself a DJ.
watch some of the pros at the big clubs in the big citys and you will see what i am talking about.

I think the same for KJs, i see so many one night a week KJs with a few disc and a player, and do not know how to use it.
then i see guys and gals who do it five times a week, make a full time living at it.
spend a lot of time and money upgrading and studying sound and equipment
trying to be the best they can be.
they are the pro KJs.
Just My Two cents. Bob

[kilith]

Originally Posted by bobcox

I am a kj not a dj, although i will play some dance music if need be.
when i see a pro DJ he is the one playing and scratching and making his own mixes. two turntables/ cd player mixing on the fly. these guys are pro DJs.
what i see in my area is guys playing out of a laptop and letting the program
fade to next song. or playing from a cd just one song after another.
these are NOT pro DJs.
seems anyone with some equipment and can play some CDs calls himself a DJ.
watch some of the pros at the big clubs in the big citys and you will see what i am talking about.

I think the same for KJs, i see so many one night a week KJs with a few disc and a player, and do not know how to use it.
then i see guys and gals who do it five times a week, make a full time living at it.
spend a lot of time and money upgrading and studying sound and equipment
trying to be the best they can be.
they are the pro KJs.
Just My Two cents. Bob

I think that was very well put.

[bryant]

Exactly, so the response to the poll can really be only one. ""Some are and some not"", as the case in any occupation or job in this world. There are serious ones and there are "not so" serious ones.

However, my initial posts only referred to "whether the occupation in general was considered to be a professional one" by the typically understood definition of a "professional occupation", regarding rights, liabilities, licensure, qualifications, malpractice and good practice, etc. That is why I responded "No", in the poll.

It did not mean that I act "unprofessional "when I KJ,
or that anyone on here does. But put simply, it is not a professionally recognized occupation and therefore we have little protection from "impersonators", and also have little liability to worry about either.

[kilith]

Originally Posted by bryant

Exactly, so the response to the poll can really be only one. ""Some are and some not"", as the case in any occupation or job in this world. There are serious ones and there are "not so" serious ones.

However, my initial posts only referred to "whether the occupation in general was considered to be a professional one" by the typically understood definition of a "professional occupation", regarding rights, liabilities, licensure, qualifications, malpractice and good practice, etc. That is why I responded "No", in the poll.

It did not mean that I act "unprofessional "when I KJ,
or that anyone on here does. But put simply, it is not a professionally recognized occupation and therefore we have little protection from "impersonators", and also have little liability to worry about either.

I carry liability insurance and reason being if someone gets hurt on your equipment you are liable to be sued because of their injuries. We are also not talking about the actions of the KJ. We are talking about if they are a professional "as in this is what they do and the do it with poise and respect" Just like a Doctor. Not all doctors are professional and nowdays they are just people that write out a piece of paper. They take very little time with paticents nowdays.

I consider myself to be a professional KJ/DJ because I work to be the best. I am always up there doing my job tweeking volumes and peeks to make every person sound the best they can. I try to keep the show going til the end of the night. I give each and every singer the same respect and same attention.

It does not matter in this world if you have a degree or not anymore. It based on experience. Someone out of college even if they were in there for 10 years studying computers for example would not get a job right out of college. Everyone looks for 5 to 10 years hands on experience before they will hire someone fresh out of college. Even if that fresh kid out of college has more knowledge in the new technology or not.

People for weddings look for someone with 5-20 years experience before they will take the first $100.00 Ipod DJ. They rather play $500-$1500 for a professional DJ before a nobody.

Bars are a different story. They will pay for the first non-professional KJ running on a home karaoke system for $50.00-$100.00/night over a professional KJ who has all band equipment, great song selection, killer sound, and all the other flashy stuff who might charge $200.00-$300.00 a night. (this is in my area of working as in the Minnesota, Wisconsin, Iowa region)

They are the bars who do not have anyone in them. Try it once go to a ton of shows, check them out on quality and crowd. You will know who is better by the 10 people sitting in the bar or the 50+ persons crowd. You will know who is the professional KJ and who is the amatur KJ.

The word "Professional" does not just stick to a piece of paper you get from a college. I can call myself a professional Network Support Technician then however I am not. That little piece of paper I got from college means nothing in the world with out experience.

It is infact the college system that changed the word "professional" to what it is now. Back in the middle ages they had the system of the master and the apprentice. The master was the professional. Did he go to school for this? No he has many many years of experience to work for his title.

Unions, construction workers, plumbers, carpenters and so on. Not many of them ever went to school. They started as a 15 year old kid doing the crap jobs and now 10 years down the road they are the ones building the houses we live in now. They never went to school to become a professional they had 10+ years experience. This is why the word professional is not the word you are talking about. You are being to spacific on the word to only a person who went to school to learn stuff to get a piece of paper that can be burned in a fire. These people who have years of experience have something far greater then that and that is experience and reputation. A good or bad DJ/KJ will be talked about and word of mouth spreds much faster then a piece of paper that is in your hands or on your wall. A bad DJ will not get jobs and will be branded on forums and by word of mouth. A good DJ will have jobs booked years in advance. So yes some brides can be BURTAL to DJ's and that DJ would never see a job again unless someone would take the chance. There is some protection out there. Heck me showing my liability insurance gets me jobs in many bars because they have a little more peace of mind that they are hiring someone who is professional.

Also not even your so called professionals have protection against "impersonators" just because you have a degree like I stated above does not make you a professional. You pick the wrong doctor who takes chances on peoples lives insted of this other doctor who wants a little more money and then the bad doctor kills someone taking a risk that was not needed.... Or you get a police officer who has a bad rep and has been fired in other cities for drug use, yet you take him over another police officer who wants more money and that cop makes a mistake and gets someone killed. Really there are two professions by your terms and there is no protection. People are still going to spend less money to save money.

[peppe]

I like what you have to say for the most part. all my experience has come from hands on and just watching and living it. my husband and I are good and we know that, BUT, we also work very very hard at making it that way. we have years of being apprentices and have enjoyed it tremendously....it is now us that are the masters and i really enjoy teaching those who have an interest in being kj's or musicians. I really enjoy telling them the truths of the business and seeing the reactions when I tell them you can't just get up there and do it....your gonna have to watch for a while, because your just going to look stupid if you don't. I like knowing that I may be turning out some great KJ's for the future. a bad karaoke show is pretty ugly!!!

[bryant]

I agree 100% with ya, KIl. However, in my quoted statement shown in your post, please read carefully that the word "education" was not mentioned once.

I also agree that education cannot replace experience,
and also "the other way around is true as well".

I also stated as you did that there are bad performing professionals and good performimg ones, but at least when you go to the Doctor's; whether he is a bad or good one you may not know at the time, but at least you were made "ever so slightly" more comfortable by the fact that you saw, M.D. next to his name, and that he is insured and liable to an extent.

In essence, you may want to jump off your "experience over education" horse and look at the whole picture, as we all seem to agree with you for the most part anyway.

[kilith]

When it comes to doctors... no just because MD is in front of their name still does not make me feel better. It is after I have been to them a few times and they actually do what they are suposed to do. I have been to many bad doctors.

Same with school teachers I have seen some **** good school teachers and I have seen some very VERY poor school teachers. Same with college professors.

Just because they have an MD, BA, MA ect does not make me feel any better about them. Once I have a good experience with them then I will think they are professional and do their job well or I will think they are in it for the money and not to service the people who pay their checks.

I am just trying to prove that just because you have a degree in anything still does not mean you are good at it. A professional is someone who does their job right, gets paid well for the good job that they do.

You have professional KJ's the ones who in their area make the highest money have the best service and then you have the 3rd rate KJ's that weasel their way in with low costs and poor service and are in it to ruin the base rate when they paid very little for what they use and get jobs because they only charge $100.00 a night.

[bryant]

Who's talking about degrees?


If you go into a Doctor's office building for the first time and you see two doors side by side, one has MD on the name and the other doesn't, you tell me you may not enter the room with the MD but enter the room and ask for medical attention from the guy you know isn't an MD MD. AWW, C'mon get off the pot!

[kilith]

Originally Posted by bryant

Who's talking about degrees?


If you go into a Doctor's office building for the first time and you see two doors side by side, one has MD on the name and the other doesn't, you tell me you may not enter the room with the MD but enter the room and ask for medical attention from the guy you know isn't an MD MD. AWW, C'mon get off the pot!

umm where I live they dont have MD on the doors. They have things called waiting rooms. I also have been to a Nurse Practioner who was better then a few doctors I have been too.

Once again you attack my image. In two different threads now. You are what 50 something years old but you are acting like a 16 year old. What is your problem? You are doing such high school things and maybe it is because you are a high school teacher. Really act your age please.

[muzicman144]

Seems to me that a professional is one who does the job at the highest of level, irregardless of the pay, which, will come to the ones who maintains that level. It also shows in the Forum at MTU.
To argue the point of pro, non pro, pay rates, etc., seems to me to be a mute point. I have been in this business many years, seen all types come and go, but, never have they affected my pay or jobs. Some make it, many do not. There is a level somewhere that anyone can, and do play, and make some money doing it. If one is a "pro", he or she should have no worries getting the top going rate in their area. Stop complaining about the new ones. Everyone deserves a shot at trying anything they please, good or bad equipment, personality, or ability, etc. And we should help them if asked.

Muzicman144

[Lonman]

Originally Posted by muzicman144

Everyone deserves a shot at trying anything they please, good or bad equipment, personality, or ability, etc.

I agree, to a point - however, when these start up companies purchase illegal libraries with 50K or more songs already on it (loaded drives off of auction sites for LESS than pennies on the dollar comparitively) without 1 real disc then goes in to do shows for $50, DOES hurt the industry. As legal companies that have thousands upon thousands invested in their libraries & equipment only to have a third of the selection of what these fly by nighters have does hurt the industry. It has spiraled in this area as commanding a certain price has died. If you try to stand firm on your regular price out here, you will have a nice home system. Many good companies out here have fallen or moved to private only parties & let the crap take over the clubs & unfortunately, the new breed of karaokers don't know what good karaoke is anymore & accept what's out there as good. Karaoke is starting to decline as more & more 'DJ' nights are starting to reappear or intermix with karaoke nights.

Now if a start up company invests real money into legal libraries, then they deserve a fair shot as anyone else, just don't seem many of them are thinking they need to start out legal in the first place.

[muzicman144]

I can appreciate your reference to the illegals. I was not referring to them. I was speaking of the ones who want to attempt to become "professionals". I simply tried to imply that water seeks its own level so to speak.
Again, "professional" is simply a word that one would like to describe the level of his or her ability. My point is the results of one's performance increase the choice of pay and job choice for performing above the level of ordinary, irregardless of competition

muzicman144

[peppe]

I am reading all of your conversations with each other and am just blown away. at the same time your all making me thankful that my business is in Italy and not the states!! I can't believe the level of compitition stateside...is it really THAT bad?? it sounds almost cut throat. Its interesting or Ironic I should say, just last night My husband and I got a call from an old bar we used to KJ at. They want us back now every saturday night. The interesting thing is that the bar owner about 2 months ago thought he could save money and do Karaoke on his own, HAHAHAHAHA!!!!!!! Well, he found out that there is a level of professionalism that MAKES IT WORK!!! not just anyone can get up there and do it, and he said he was going to possibly shut down if we were'nt going to come back and start up karaoke for him again. this is really funny because this scenario falls right in where we all are talking. people should have a chance to see if they can do it. BUT, like I said in my previous reply..its important to watch and listen for awhile before you go out and KJ like a professional. Professionalism comes from personality and experience and passion for the music!!! its like a good wine or scotch the more time you give the better it tastes!

[Lonman]

Originally Posted by muzicman144

I can appreciate your reference to the illegals. I was not referring to them. I was speaking of the ones who want to attempt to become "professionals". I simply tried to imply that water seeks its own level so to speak.
Again, "professional" is simply a word that one would like to describe the level of his or her ability. My point is the results of one's performance increase the choice of pay and job choice for performing above the level of ordinary, irregardless of competition

muzicman144

Their ability does not necessarily increase the choice of pay or job choice - it is completely dependent on the surrounding job market & what clubs are willing to pay. If the surrounding companies of now days are only charging $50 & the bars are used to paying that, there is no way they are going to pay someone $150, 200 or more even if their equipment, selection & personality is that good. Around here a GOOD company might be able to 'squeeze' $125 per night, but that's rare. $100 is average now because the clubs won't pay higher anymore - why, they don't have to. The cheesy companies that don't know how to run a good show can still draw a crowd (usually younger screamer crowds that don't know what good karaoke is) & the bars don't care if their karaoke is top notch - if they are coming in with crap equipment why bother paying more for good stuff?
I have a pretty good following - been in business 15 years, 6 years ago bought a complete system to do more mobile shows, not crap - the PA was stuff we used for running bands as I already had (JBL SR speakers tops & subs), Crown & QSC PLX series amps, Mackie mixer plus many processors), I just needed to purcahase discs which I did. Mostly Sound Choice, Chartbuster, THM, PHM - had about 5,000 songs (non dup) & the best price I could get was $125 (normally charge $175). I did a club that went from $200 per night to over $1000 per night, they wanted cheaper karaoke - they found a company that charged $100, didn't hook into any of the bar tvs, sat up their equipment on stage, 1 blown speaker. They went from the $1000 to less than what they were making. They dropped this company 2 weeks afterward. They had the gall to call me to see if I wanted to work for $100 per night, I told them no - I would go back for a minimum $150. They dropped music altogether.
Mine is not the only story, again, I have watched some VERY good companies fall or move out of clubs altogether - these were some of the most professional companies that I knew. Every one of them were booted out of their clubs for non-professional, undercutting & yes illegal systems that charge $100 or less per night.

[bryant]

Wow, Lonnie, I know the feeling , too. Around here even the good ones sometimes charge 100 bucks. Some of these other good ones just don't care how much they make, I guess.

[Lonman]

Originally Posted by bryant

Wow, Lonnie, I know the feeling , too. Around here even the good ones sometimes charge 100 bucks. Some of these other good ones just don't care how much they make, I guess.

It's only because they HAVE to charge that much if they want to keep working. Most would rather pack it up & get out of karaoke altogether rather than submit themselves to working for such a cheap wage per night.

[bryant]

I see. What area of the country are you in, Lon?
Just curious?