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Singers & Hosts Wisdom Post how to be a great karaoke singer or host.

View Poll Results: Are KJ's professional?
Yes 15 27.78%
No 2 3.70%
Some are and some are not 37 68.52%
Voters: 54. You may not vote on this poll

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  #1  
Old February 25th, 2007, 03:43 PM
kilith kilith is offline
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Are KJ's Professional?

Well from the topic "Pay rate around the country" we have gotten into a discussion about if KJ's are professional. Steve Walker says that KJ's are not considered profrssional. So here we can all discuss this and maybe some of us "professional" KJ's can change his mind. He is neither DJ or KJ but he is prime example on why KJ's are getting killed out in the world. I guess noone considers KJ's to be "professional"
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  #2  
Old February 25th, 2007, 03:49 PM
kilith kilith is offline
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Here is a recap on how this started

Here is how this topic started.

Quote:
Originally Posted by SteveWalker View Post
I think the top DJ's and top KJ's can provide the same quality of entertainment but they are at the top of the pyrimid. In general the public expects DJ's to entertain at a much higher level and quality compared to KJ's. A professional DJ makes much more money and would not switch over to be a full time KJ. This is just my unbiased opinion as I'm am not a DJ. I am musician and professional singer.
Quote:
Originally Posted by kilith View Post
Yes that is right. The public thinks there is more to being a DJ then a KJ. However it is the other way around. a KJ puts a lot more time into their business. Making books is a long and tiresom project and are changed almost weekly if not monthly. Most DJ's do not even have books it is go up ask and pray they have the music you want.

A DJ plays music to get people up and dance... I have had nights where I sang for the first 2 hours out of 5 hours before people were brave enough to come up and sing but once you get them up there then they do not want to stop but that is what you have to do to keep your show going... I have never seen a DJ come out from behind his computer or CD tray to get a group dancing by dancing by him/herself out on a floor.

That is the problem out in the world is everyone knows how much a DJ is paid and that it is anywhere from $600-$1500 a night and bars are happy to pay that price but they are not happy to pay a KJ $200.00. Yes I know that a lot of troll KJ's have taken down the respectability of the karaoke industry. Once of my friends who used to even be my baby-sitter lol is now starting up her own karaoke system and I am sorry she is a horrible KJ when it comes to running a system. As a MC she is great! but she does not know how to adjust her music and vocals which is what makes a quality show. For me it would be rude to go up and tell her how to run her system even if it was to help her quality. I do have 9 years experience on her but I just do not know how she would take constructive critisizm from me knowing I am a KJ.... Any comments on how I could maybe go about helping her out? She does give a good show but she could give a heck of a lot better show.
Quote:
Originally Posted by SteveWalker View Post
The professional DJ can MC and motivate the crowd in a way only a KJ (except a very very few) could dream of doing. The professional DJ does more to learn the skill of being an MC and motivating a crowd. The KJ concentrates on motivating singers and adjusting their vocals. Actually, we are talking apples and oranges in making this comparison. I think the DJ profession would be a great leaning ground for KJ's because this is where the real people skills are learned and used.
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  #3  
Old March 9th, 2007, 05:09 AM
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just an added opinion

my husband and I do kj/mc and have a classic rock/blues band here in naples italy. Its a unique situation that actually lends itseelf perfectly to this discussion. For example...we were hired by the american military to entertain a large aircraft carrier that had come into port, we have a large private park here for the troops, they sat up a large tent and had our band along with one other band, plus our karaoke and a dj playing dance music. The DJ was in another tent in a lower part of the park. sorry for the details but its important to my point. we were scheduled to play for 4 days in a row. the bands played starting at 5 finished at about 7 then karaoke till about 11pm. SO, the first day we went by the schedule, BUT....the whole time the bands played all the sailors were asking WHEN IS KARAOKE GETTING STARTED?? well needless to say, we were called in at 12 NOON to start karaoke for the last 3 days of the event, it went over like beer at a fraternity party. they didn't want the bands they didn't want the dj. in fact the dj didn't even play after the first 2 days. We have found over and over again, because I try and book the band as much as for the karaoke, Karaoke is #1 with all. we now have continuous gigs through september 3 times a week just to satisfy the military public here. it amazing and fun and exciting!!!! I wouldn't trade it for the world.

Wendy and Peppe JOKEY KARAOKE, NAPLES, ITALY
  #4  
Old March 9th, 2007, 10:28 AM
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Very interesting!
FYI: My show has grown to 6 times a week, and might hit seven by late this spring. I never wanted that much work, and would never do it with disks, either. Thanx to the Hoster staff we have Hoster.
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Old February 25th, 2007, 03:53 PM
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Here is the rest of what was stated so far "I know I prob of gotten the ADMIN to move all of it but oh well lol it is here now

Quote:
Originally Posted by kilith View Post
I starting as a KJ think it is the other way around. There is no way I would of ever became a DJ if it was not for being a KJ first. KJ/DJ does not have much of a difference... DJ/KJ and MC is a HUGE difference. Most DJ websites do not even offer MC services and the ones that DO, charge more to MC a wedding reception.
Really the only difference I can see comparing the two is DJ has more control over the show then the KJ does.
However both a KJ or a DJ can be an MC. MC is a whole different trade all together from both KJ and DJ.

masters of ceremonies
A person who acts as host at a formal event, making the welcoming speech and introducing other speakers.
A performer who conducts a program of varied entertainment by introducing other performers to the audience.
In a way a KJ is an MC all the time, a DJ is an MC only if the wedding couple wants them to do introductions or to even have them call out the dances or other events in the night. I have had the bride and groom do it at their weddings. So that took my MC jobs over and I did not have to do it. That is how they wanted to do their reception and they are paying me so I do what they want.

disc jockey
nouna person who announces and plays popular recorded music

Karaoke jockey or KJ

The KJ is a specialized disc jockey who plays and manages the music for a venue. The role of the KJ often includes announcing song titles and whose turn it is to sing.

So by definition a KJ is a form of DJ and neither a KJ nor DJ is an MC but both could do MC duties. Both KJ and DJ MUST be good with people and be people persons. Now what you are saying (and you must have met some horrible KJ's) is that what you have seen does not compare to a professional KJ/DJ. You I would say have seen KJ's that are in it for the money and do not care how well the people sound or the apperance of their system and must not run it professionally if you do not consider them to be professional. (I have seen these type of KJ's and I call them the trolls and they give a very bad reputation to professional KJ's)

I would consider myself a very professional KJ and/or DJ but the only difference in my shows is how they are run. karaoke I do karaoke and DJ I play music. That is the only difference between the two. (oh and one I wear a tux and the other I wear jeans and a nice button down shirt) I live in both worlds and even both at the same time.

However I see that this is a bit off topic now but maybe could make for a very good topic of its own to see what people think other then us lol?
Quote:
Originally Posted by alanross View Post
I had the benefit of being a mobile DJ before mobile DJs were the accepted norm at weddings and formal affairs. Back in the late 1970s, bands still dominated the wedding circuit. I lived in Northwestern Vermont at the time and there were only three professional DJ systems in existence in the state and ours was one of them. I've seen the industry change and I've seen what it takes to be a good DJ. But let's define what kind of DJ we're discussing.

Club jocks are different than Rap DJs, but they're closer cousins than other types of DJs. In a club, the focus is on mixing, scratching and maintaining a beat that keeps the crowd moving. Rap jocks are proficient in mixing, overdubbing and scratching to enhance the song. Both are different from radio DJs whose whole focus is to project their personality over the airwaves. Radio DJs are different than mobile DJs because they don't have that immediate, live feedback from an audience for whom they must adjust their playlist. But radio jocks make a better fit into the mobile world because they're used to filling in dead air with banter.

I mention this because it goes to the reason why bar owners consider DJs more valuable than KJs. First you have to understand the fact that perception is reality to the vast majority of people. It rarely matters what the facts are, if people perceive things to be a certain way, it is very hard to convince them otherwise.

There is a perception that DJs are more highly skilled and have a semi-celebrity status, partially because of the radio DJs and partially because of the wedding circuit. Radio DJs have an on-air presence that gives them that sort-of celebrity status. Who hasn't tugged on the sleeve of a friend and said, "Hey that's so-and-so from WXYZ radio!" when they've seen a radio DJ in person. This increases their value to a bar owner. The other perception is that of the wedding DJ. Wedding DJs pull in good money for each gig. The perception is then that they are worth that much, even in a smaller, weekly venue. So when a bar owner hires a DJ for $400 for the night, he feels like he's getting a deal.

We all know that the general perception of Karaoke is that it is third rate entertainment. Any time you make people who are not professionals the center of the show, you will foster a perception that your show isn't professional. It takes a great deal of work to change that image, but it can be done. We've done it here at our shows. But it takes a lot of work and most KJs simply don't care. They're making their money and they're done. So Karaoke across the globe is not considered to be a professional form of entertainment.

Again, this is the perception. We as professional KJs, struggling to make our shows real entertainment venues, know that reality is a far cry from the perception.

kilith is spot-on when he talks about DJs not necessarily being MCs and that KJs do way more work than DJs. I've been doing DJ/KJ/MC work since the late 70s and I can personally attest to the fact that KJ work is the most difficult and requires the most dedication, commitment and perseverance. If you're running your shows right, you don't stop moving, listening, adjusting, monitoring, loading, announcing, bantering, schmoozing or watching from the time you start 'til the time you end. There are no breaks. It's four straight hours of constant action and being in what I like to call "Go-Mode".

When I do a wedding now, it feels like I'm cheating. I do 1/8 of the work and get paid 3 times as much - at a minimum. So, just to make myself feel better, I sing half the songs to which people are dancing. It makes me feel like I'm earning my money and 1/2 the people don't even notice, so they keep right on dancing. The half that does notice, usually ask for my business card and visit my tip jar. The point is, DJ work is so boring compared to KJ work, I charge astonomical rates to dissuade people from hiring me. Last year I increased my DJ rates to $300/hr for me personally and $200/hr for any of my guys. That wasn't good enough to stop 'em, so I began charging $400/hr for me personally and I already have 6 gigs lined up this year. It's ridiculous!

The bottom line is, if KJs could change the public perception of Karaoke, then we could earn the same rates that DJs make across the board. Unfortunately, because of the cut-rate Karaoke that's probably always going to be available, and the easy access to it in bars and nightclubs, I don't see the situation changing.

If fact, what I've seen is a shift from people having their wedding receptions in a reception hall, to wedding couples scheduling their wedding receptions at the nightclubs in which we play so they get free entertainment. Granted, they're bringing their private function into a public forum, but the bar owners love it because it's that much more revenue and the wedding party doesn't care, because, as you know, when any large group comes into the shows, they pretty much take over the room anyway.

I get very cross when this happens and I usually make sure the wedding people understand that they will get no special treatment. They are at the mercy of the rotation regardless of how many of them there are. I make it clear that if they want special treatment, they should have paid me to do a private party for them. As such, I make them understand that their wedding is now over and they are at my show, not their reception. The bar customers are every bit as important and will be given as much respect as the bride and groom.

Invariably, someone from the wedding party try to make it all about the wedding couple, but I just don't play that game. They might get upset a the moment, but upon reflection, most people realize that they are really trying to get something for nothing and that dog don't hunt with me.

The biproduct of this is that the "regulars" appreciate us that much more.

Anyway, I'm getting long winded again. Sorry.

- Alan Ross
Quote:
Originally Posted by SteveWalker View Post
I agree that a KJ is a specialized DJ. To me specialized means the KJ is not a fully trained professional DJ. I'm very sure you are exceptional in your role as both a KJ and DJ but unfortunately these types are few and far between.

However, we can agree to disagree at this point!
Quote:
Originally Posted by muzicman144 View Post
With all due respects to any and all dj or kj. At what point does one become a "fully trained professionial dj/kj", and who decides it. One could do dj/kj work full time for ten years and not be considered one of the "best" or "professional". Another can start and immediately have abilty to be considered one of the best or most professional. I beleive it is the intangible that can't really be described that draws the largest crowds and makes the kj or dj draw top money. Its the ability to say/do the right things at the right time that separates the "best or professional" from the rest. This can't be taught or "trained". It also sets the rate of pay.
Again, just my opinion

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  #6  
Old February 25th, 2007, 04:23 PM
kilith kilith is offline
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Steve I now must find out what do you consider to be "professional"? By definition professional means:
Quote:
pro·fes·sion·al
Quote:
/prəˈfɛʃənl/Pronunciation Key - Show Spelled Pronunciation[pruh-fesh-uh-nl]Pronunciation Key - Show IPA Pronunciation
–adjective 1.following an occupation as a means of livelihood or for gain: a professional builder. 2.of, pertaining to, or connected with a profession: professional studies. 3.appropriate to a profession: professional objectivity. 4.engaged in one of the learned professions: A lawyer is a professional person. 5.following as a business an occupation ordinarily engaged in as a pastime: a professional golfer. 6.making a business or constant practice of something not properly to be regarded as a business: “A salesman,” he said, “is a professional optimist.” 7.undertaken or engaged in as a means of livelihood or for gain: professional baseball. 8.of or for a professional person or his or her place of business or work: a professional apartment; professional equipment. 9.done by a professional; expert: professional car repairs. –noun 10.a person who belongs to one of the professions, esp. one of the learned professions. 11.a person who earns a living in a sport or other occupation frequently engaged in by amateurs: a golf professional. 12.an expert player, as of golf or tennis, serving as a teacher, consultant, performer, or contestant; pro. 13.a person who is expert at his or her work: You can tell by her comments that this editor is a real professional.
Now I can say there are a lot of amateurs in both the KJ/DJ field but being a singer does not make you a professional. Playing in a band does not make you professional. Being a DJ does not make you professional and being a KJ does not make you professional.

Just because before your name you have lets say "DJ Jeff" this does not make you "professional". When I start my shows whether I am a KJ for that night or DJ is "My name is Jake and I will be your host for the night for the next 5 hours." I do not add DJ or KJ I am their host.

Now whether I am a KJ or a DJ I am professional on both sides of the board. I am not more professional when I DJ over when I KJ. Steve where does this make sense? Am I only professional when I DJ at weddings but when I KJ at a wedding I am not? If my show is always the same rather it be in the bar or at a wedding how am I not a "professional" KJ? I was never trained as a KJ and I was never trained as a DJ. They came as natural to me to do as golf did for Tigar Woods.

Here is what I consider to be a "professional" KJ or DJ:

You must have the love for the music inside and out. If you are in the business just for the money then you might as well get out now. You must look professional as in a nice appearance. Like Alan Ross said: In a bar wear some nice jeans and a nice button down shirt over wearing shorts and t-shirt. Do not under dress a gig but also do not over dress a gig either like as in do not wear a tux to host karaoke at a bar... but do not wear jeans and button down shirt at a wedding. Appearance does not stop with you!!!! Your equipment must also have a good appearance. If that looks bad even if you ARE in a tux... makes you look non-professional. You must ACT professional, this means no swearing over the mic, no ripping down your singers or dancers, keep the show flowing get the crowd into it.

To me if your KJ or DJ does all of the above and more they are professionals.
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  #7  
Old February 25th, 2007, 05:50 PM
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Ahh, as we try to redifine "Professional"!

It typically means in the American Society an occupation that requires some form of licensure, education, and some qualifying exams to prove to the public that you have demonstrated, at least by way of the above, a certain level of proficeincy in that particular field. However, the word professional, like many other American words, are extremely overused and often times go beyond their originally intended meaning.
Also, because you have all the certifications stated above does not mean that you are better than someone that doesn't, but at it least says that you made the effort
to honor the profession, and are aware of the laws that govern that profession, and are usually the only ones legalized to practice that profession. Karaoke DJ's or any form of music hosting does not require licenses, registration, proof of ability, which simply means that anyone can try it any where. Therefore, not a profession.
Nor a professional.
I am a registered professional engineer by profession and am legally allowed to practice that, charge for it, and guarantee thru liability, my services. Others who are not registered do the same thing, however, illegally, and perhaps even better. If they get caught, regardless of how good their design was, they go to jail, pay fines, or both. I also have a teacher's certification, of which required more schooling, more testing, etc. for me to practice that profession and get paid for it. DJ's do not fall under these strict laws of true professions.

DJ's sort of go under the general category of hobbyist, paid hobbyist, unlicensed trade or occupation, blue-collar worker, semi-skilled laborer, skilled laborer, etc.
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Old February 25th, 2007, 08:13 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bryant View Post
Ahh, as we try to redifine "Professional"!

It typically means in the American Society an occupation that requires some form of licensure, education, and some qualifying exams to prove to the public that you have demonstrated, at least by way of the above, a certain level of proficeincy in that particular field. However, the word professional, like many other American words, are extremely overused and often times go beyond their originally intended meaning.
Also, because you have all the certifications stated above does not mean that you are better than someone that doesn't, but at it least says that you made the effort
to honor the profession, and are aware of the laws that govern that profession, and are usually the only ones legalized to practice that profession. Karaoke DJ's or any form of music hosting does not require licenses, registration, proof of ability, which simply means that anyone can try it any where. Therefore, not a profession.
Nor a professional.
I am a registered professional engineer by profession and am legally allowed to practice that, charge for it, and guarantee thru liability, my services. Others who are not registered do the same thing, however, illegally, and perhaps even better. If they get caught, regardless of how good their design was, they go to jail, pay fines, or both. I also have a teacher's certification, of which required more schooling, more testing, etc. for me to practice that profession and get paid for it. DJ's do not fall under these strict laws of true professions.

DJ's sort of go under the general category of hobbyist, paid hobbyist, unlicensed trade or occupation, blue-collar worker, semi-skilled laborer, skilled laborer, etc.
Hey now I would be careful with what you says here. Yes SOME DJ/KJ's are hobbyist.

1.following an occupation as a means of livelihood or for gain: a professional builder.
13.a person who is expert at his or her work

Now under that definition it does not say you must have a college degree or some sort of certificate. However a DJ can very much go to some college courses and get a certificate. But by definition you do not need any formal schooling to become a "professional" in any trade or job. Someone who never went to school in your trade might have 10 to 20 + years of experience on you and I doubt they would get into any sort of trouble. When you get a so call by your terms "professional" job you can have 2 years of school and have a certificate and have 15 years experience on top of that and get a better job then someone with a higher degree then you when they have less experience. You do not always need to have any sort of paper to be a "professional" in your trade.

We are not redefining anything here byrant. 10 even 20 years ago you didint need a degree for hardly anything. Michael Dell didn't have a degree when he started to build his computers out of the basement of his home. People that built houses from before time and even now still do not have degrees... they start out as kids doing the crap jobs and work their ways up and then join guilds or unions. You do not need a degree to drive a million pound diesal train for the railroad. In fact it is one of the first jobs you get in the railroad. I consider all these people professionals in their respected professions.

Just because a DJ or KJ do not have a degree in their respected professions there are professional DJ's and KJ's there are also amature DJ's and KJ's. If anything you are trying to redefine what a professional is. If someone is in a profession they could be a professional in their profession. I gave the definition above in one of the posts... read it and it will show that you are wrong that you do not need a degree to be a professional (otherwise I would LOVE to see a professional baseball players or football players degree in playing baseball or football lol)
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Last edited by kilith; February 25th, 2007 at 08:19 PM.
  #9  
Old February 26th, 2007, 01:03 AM
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Ouch. I didn't say you definitely need a certificate or education, I was trying to say that is one typical (but not always), definition in some terms; and also qualified that by saying the word itself is very, very, broad and can actually mean what you want it to.

I wasn't trying to redefine anything, just giving one of the typical definitions (prolly those used by those who do carry licenses and/or certificates). That's all.

I hope I didn't construe any wrong meanings here, if so, my apologies.

It's all good.
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