Singers Spend No Money

[madjim- with the Lord]

What do you do when one of your rooms starts attracting a crowd of folks who drink water, don't eat and don't tip? (THEY SPEND NO MONEY!) They sure have fun but the room get full and the paying customers have no where to sit.


1. Is it time to start charging by the song?

2. Does the bar start charging $2 or more for a galss of water?

3. Do you pull one of the group members aside and say somthing?


Any suggestions would be appreciated.


Jim

[bryant]

Originally Posted by madjim

What do you do when one of your rooms starts attracting a crowd of folks who drink water, don't eat and don't tip? (THEY SPEND NO MONEY!) They sure have fun but the room get full and the paying customers have no where to sit.


1. Is it time to start charging by the song?

2. Does the bar start charging $2 or more for a galss of water?

3. Do you pull one of the group members aside and say somthing?


Any suggestions would be appreciated.


Jim

I have used #3 on a few ppl I see all the time, but usually they still don't get it, and don't have anything to spend, and I know the owner knows that too, it's usually the bartenders that get tipped well by "his" regular "big spenders". If they don't get to sing they may not stay or may not return. So you really can't blame the bartender for trying to get the hosts to respect the ppl that "pay" the cover charge and beyond.

Charging by song would never work in this area as the drinkers who already spend enough there would have good right to complain and go elsewhere.

They have bottled water they charge for here, but probably would not charge for water as most places are also serve food where I play and water in a glass is expectd free. It's really tough decisions to make here but the world as we know depends on varaiety, and this is all part of it.

In other posts, I've read complaints about drunks (the ones who pay for being there, the opposites). So I guess you have to have both.

[madjim- with the Lord]

Originally Posted by bryant

In other posts, I've read complaints about drunks (the ones who pay for being there, the opposites). So I guess you have to have both.

Bottled water, hummmm I may suggest that. The grass is never greener on the other side, it's the same color.

Thanks Bryant

Jim

[mindonstrike]

Put up a "No Loitering" sign. If they aren't paying customers, they are loitering.


One bar I used to work had a problem with a large group of water drinkers (we nicknamed them the water brigade) about 8 of them would sing, the bar put up with it until paying customers complained they had to wait an extra 30-40 minutes per round for people who didn't support the bar. The bar finally let them know they couldn;t sing anymore.

My personal philosophy is that it's not my job to dictate who is worthy of singing and who is not. The bar pays me to play and that's what I do. It's the bars job to tell people they can't participate. If the bar wants to point out specific people to not allow to participate I will abide by their wishes, other than that I refuse to be the bad guy (in these situations anyhow)

Sam

[madjim- with the Lord]

Originally Posted by mindonstrike

My personal philosophy is that it's not my job to dictate who is worthy of singing and who is not. The bar pays me to play and that's what I do. It's the bars job to tell people they can't participate. If the bar wants to point out specific people to not allow to participate I will abide by their wishes, other than that I refuse to be the bad guy (in these situations anyhow)

Sam

Sam,
I agree with you 100%. I like Bryant's bottled water idea, may suggest it.

They are young collage freshmen, too young to drink. I've been working with this place for so long that it hurts to see this happen. On the other side these folks will be in Valdosta for the next four years and will be old enough to drink one day. Gotta keep an eye on my market.

Catch 22 big time!

Jim

[Lonman]

We have that problem on occasion. Usually it doesn't turn into a problem, but they do not give any free refills anymore, charge for all drinks - including water. If someone is not drinking they are asked to leave at the bartenders discression.
I have made the suggestion to several in the past & have actually seen it in action at a couple places.
$5 token purchased at the door. It's not a cover charge as this token can be redeemed for $5 in either food or drink. The ones that were planning on spending money don't gripe because they get their $5 back to buy their drinks. The water sippers have at least paid SOMETHING to be able to sit & sing. Yes it may drive them away - but a non-spender is taking up a potential spenders seat, or it may get them to start buying a little more.

[marklwood]

Hey Jim, as you know I am responsible for both sides of the coin, literally. As a bar owner, I do charge $1 for bottled water that costs me about $0.25. That still is only a $0.75 profit, but at least they are contributing something (no cover charge).

As the KJ I try to treat them the same as everyone else when it comes to rotation and such. BUT, I do keep a tight leash on them when it comes to the rules of the bar and my equipment.

Also, when they complain about this, that, or the other, or tell me "what you NEED to do is...." I ask them to step in to my shoes for a minute. What is the smart business decision here? How much money or time should I invest in you. What is the return on that investment? I am very happy for you to be able to come out and sing, but consider my business model. I provide a place to come, a clean restroom, A/C and heat, a place to set, people to wait on you (that you never tip), and karoke 6 nights a week. Now again I ask you, how much more $$ or time should I invest in you?

I am never accusitory or threatening. I am a very soft spoken guy (unless you make me mad) I just very nicely talk to them about how a business survives. If you don't continue to make a profit, you will die. Do you like coming here? I like having you, but I still need to pay the bills. How about this, next time I need to re-do the books, will you help me put them together? How about cleaning and fixing the ones we have now? How about instead of tipping the waitress, you help her out by emptying ash trays, or picking up empty glasses. Maybe you can help me by finding out who keeps writing on the bathroom walls or punching holes in them. You can still contribute without spending any $$.

I have found that if you are unhappy with someone, talking to them honestly is the best way to get it resolved. Maybe there is some kind of compromise or understanding you can come to.

If all else fails, beat the hell out of them

[madjim- with the Lord]

Originally Posted by marklwood

If all else fails, beat the hell out of them

Ha ha ha ha ha.......

Jim

[RailMom]

Originally Posted by Lonman

We have that problem on occasion. Usually it doesn't turn into a problem, but they do not give any free refills anymore, charge for all drinks - including water. If someone is not drinking they are asked to leave at the bartenders discression.
I have made the suggestion to several in the past & have actually seen it in action at a couple places.
$5 token purchased at the door. It's not a cover charge as this token can be redeemed for $5 in either food or drink. The ones that were planning on spending money don't gripe because they get their $5 back to buy their drinks. The water sippers have at least paid SOMETHING to be able to sit & sing. Yes it may drive them away - but a non-spender is taking up a potential spenders seat, or it may get them to start buying a little more.

I've never heard of the token idea, but it sounds like a GREAT one! Jim, I'm a soda drinker, with the VERY seldom alcoholic drink. HOWEVER, I tip the bartender for EVERY cola I get!! (I usually will order at least one appetizer or dish - if food is served.) I'm always respectful to the server. Because I do understand that owners and their employees need to make money and they aren't there for S&G. Now, I have been at places that require a "minimum" per person, and it's usually a small number like five or ten dollars. As a customer, if I TRULY like the establishment and the show, then I don't mind spending the minimum. I'd gladly spend it in show of support. If people complain, then they really just don't get it, and you don't want them any way. But, I find that I've never had a problem with a bar or the staff because I can down a good 10-15 colas in a 4-6 hour show!

Now, marklwood, I'd be interested in your thoughts on customers like myself. Because I've been to bars where the owner has said something because I don't buy ALCOHOL. I've even "accepted" alcoholic drinks from men and passed them over to a friend because I want them to make money. But, soda and food cost money too... so I guess I don't see what the problem is. I understand that more money is made from alcohol, but the mandatory alcohol is a ludicrous rule! What do you think?

[ddouglass]

Originally Posted by Railmom

But, I find that I've never had a problem with a bar or the staff because I can down a good 10-15 colas in a 4-6 hour show!

Wow, I thought I was the only one who drank that much soda!!

We do our shows at a VFW that does not limit their clientele to members only, because they are only 1 of 2 places in the area for people to go to for entertainment. We have one entire family group of singers who come in every Friday and Saturday night. Only one or two of them drink the rest drink water.

[marklwood]

Originally Posted by RailMom

Now, marklwood, I'd be interested in your thoughts on customers like myself. Because I've been to bars where the owner has said something because I don't buy ALCOHOL. I've even "accepted" alcoholic drinks from men and passed them over to a friend because I want them to make money. But, soda and food cost money too... so I guess I don't see what the problem is. I understand that more money is made from alcohol, but the mandatory alcohol is a ludicrous rule! What do you think?

I would welcome a customer like you. I have a couple that come in and do exactly what you talk about. They are good for a couple of cokes and a couple of appetizers every time they come in. They don't get drunk and stupid and they respect the bar and the equipment. Even a customer that at least takes care of the waitress is fine by me. It is only the ones who spend no money AND make demands or complain that bother me. I am usually at capacity 4 out of 6 nights a week and it still doesn't bother me. All I really want is for everyone to have a good time. As long as they don't impede that, then everything is A-OK with me.

Edit: Yes, I believe a mandatory alcohol purchase is not only ludicrous, it may be illegal in some states. In Missouri that would be an enticement to drink and would cost me my liquor license.

BTW, I don't drink either. I used to, but I found people who drink tend to make bad decisions when they drink.

[bryant]

Originally Posted by RailMom

I understand that more money is made from alcohol

A lot more, a really lot more, at least in Maine.

[danny_g]

Originally Posted by madjim

Sam,
I agree with you 100%. I like Bryant's bottled water idea, may suggest it.

They are young collage freshmen, too young to drink. I've been working with this place for so long that it hurts to see this happen. On the other side these folks will be in Valdosta for the next four years and will be old enough to drink one day. Gotta keep an eye on my market.

Catch 22 big time!

Jim

If they are too young to drink then they are too young to sing. In my area the bar can be shut down for serving underaged people. My bartenders always card any newcomer to make sure they are old enough to be there.

[bryant]

Originally Posted by danny_g

If they are too young to drink then they are too young to sing. In my area the bar can be shut down for serving underaged people. My bartenders always card any newcomer to make sure they are old enough to be there.

That's probably the case in every State, but I don't think Jim said they were being served. They are probably there drinking water and soda and wanting to sing too.

[madjim- with the Lord]

Originally Posted by bryant

That's probably the case in every State, but I don't think Jim said they were being served. They are probably there drinking water and soda and wanting to sing too.

You are correct Bryant, what is too young to sing anyway? I've had kids come in with their parents that did a great job and got the audience pumped up.

These folks I'm dealing with are are old enough to be drafted but not old enough to drink in the State of Georgia. Another Catch 22 and it's not their fault.

Jim

[capnvic]

Originally Posted by danny_g

If they are too young to drink then they are too young to sing. In my area the bar can be shut down for serving underaged people. My bartenders always card any newcomer to make sure they are old enough to be there.

At most of the private service clubs (ie: VFW, American Legion) will only sell bottled water. usually for one dollar, most others its BYOB and the charge is one dollar for soda or tonic. otherwise beer is only little more in price. I cannot say, cause of VA ABC). So we very rarely have to deal with underage drinking. So we avoid alot of the problems that a restaurant or bar would have to deal. For example: I used to KJ at a restaurant near my house, and it would cater to a diverse crowd. They would have some of the problems that has been mentioned: water drinkers, deadbeats, etc. Well the owner took the initiative by not serving water or free coffee refills. That sent the water drinkers packing. And the coffee drinkers were ok for the refill price. He also increased the price of mixed drinks by one dollar, and the price of bottled beer increased by 1.50.
This had an adverse affect on the customer base, because they would have to shell out 4.50 for a bottle of Miller Lite, and mixed drinks went from 5.25 to 6.25. He was hoping to offset the sales of licquor and promote more food sales. (VA requires that a percentage of food be sold to offset the cost of booze. like 2/3 food to 1/3 ABC). The drinkers in the house were not eaters, 'cept stuff like wings and other appetizers.

So he's still hanging in there, no minors after 9pm, ID checks at nine and if you drink you gotta pay the price, no hanging around. So far ABC hasn't been in there to shut him down. but his place is one of the few places in the area with Karaoke 7 nights a week.

[billyo]

i have people like that come to my show ( used to anyway), i used to put them at the bottom of the list, till they figured out what i was doing, and i always announced about the beer prices and the nights special and some other things they didnt wanna hear..

[Chad Slater]

I bartend as well as KJ. My advice would be to have the bar stop giving out glasses of water and sell bottles of water. This way it works the bar makes money and the customer isn't paying for tap water.