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Singers & Hosts Wisdom Post how to be a great karaoke singer or host.

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  #1  
Old October 9th, 2002, 05:15 PM
DennisH DennisH is offline
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What do you do about "BAD" regulars?

I've been running a karaoke show for several years, and since the beginning... my show has had a standard set of "regulars" who come to almost every show. It's usually a group of about 7 to 10 people, and while each and every one of them are nice people... I am having some problems.
1- These regulars have become way too comfortable around me. For instace, I have been aproached twice by one in particular who has asked me to lend him money! I refused, as I believed this would interfere with our "professional" KJ-customer relationship. Yet he had the nerve to ask again!
2. When my shows are busy... which they usually are... several of these regulars will become agitated when they don't get to sing more than one or two songs.
3. I am constantly having to listen to many members of the crowd complain about these "regulars", as they are much older than anyone else in the bar, and their music reflects that. For instance, I'll have 5 or 6 upbeat modern songs that get the whole bar moving, and then a regular will get up and sing "Crazy" by Patsy Cline... I realize that this is the nature of Karaoke, but I'm tired of listening to the crowds complaints!
4. Finally, the most important factor is that the majority of these regulars don't drink... and in effect... they don't spend any money at the bar! A couple of them literally drink water all night long!
I've even seen one of them fish a soda pop out of their back pack just so they wouldn't get charged for a drink!!!
The staff at two different bars that I work at have been complaining to me heavily over the last year about these regulars... and none of the waitstaff want's to wait on them!
I'm not sure how to handle this situation, because I don't want to say or do anything that would create hard feelings on any side... but I'm getting kind of fed up! Has anyone else here had this sort of problem, or am I just being an *******?
-D
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  #2  
Old October 9th, 2002, 10:48 PM
SteveWalker SteveWalker is offline
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DennisH,

This sounds pretty much like normal mix of singers and those who don't like the old singers songs can just go somewhere else. You should just be friendly and fair to all newcomers and oldcomers.

Ask your singers to be sure to tip the bartenders and waitresses and hopefully peer pressure will help the bums to do the right thing. Bars obviously don't allow people to bring food and drink so have the manager of the bar ask them to leave.

Steve
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  #3  
Old October 10th, 2002, 03:38 AM
Cid_cat Cid_cat is offline
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As the KJ, you should be able to control the mix to some extent. Take a look at the song list as it occurs and maybe move one or two songs to keep the mood going. Also, I try to encourage my regulars to try some newer music when the nights are slower. This helps them pick better songs to keep the crowd interested.
As for the money thing...just say no. One funny thing about regulars...they get mad..they ALWAYS come back. They just have to understand that you're treating every equal and explain to them it's about perception, depending on what side of the argument they're on. They wouldn't want to be treated as they are suggesting you do to someone else, therefore, you won't treat anyone unfairly. (did that make sense?)

The rotation is a tough issue. I average 30+ singers, 4 nights a week and they wait because they want to sing to a crowd. Funny how no one wants to sing to an empty room, eh?
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  #4  
Old October 10th, 2002, 03:42 AM
Cid_cat Cid_cat is offline
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If I'd read the whole post, I would have caught this earlier...soo....

About the water thing....some people just don't drink. Although they have a right to be there, they don't contribute to the club with money and thus it makes it hard to pay you. I solved this issue by encouraging the club owner to sell bottled water. Tehy still come..and now they spend money.
If you see someone bringing their own drink in, have the club deal with it. A bartender will handle it ASAP because they can be fined for that stuff, depending on the license of the club.

Thanks again...good post.
cid_cat
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  #5  
Old October 10th, 2002, 04:32 AM
DennisH DennisH is offline
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Thanks for the advice!
Although, I have hinted to my customers that they need to order SOMETHING once in a while to appease the bar owners... and I think that's one of the main reasons I've been approached for a loan!
I believe that one or two of the regulars may believe that they are doing me and my show a favor by being there.
I'm dealing with some weird attitude's here... and I hate to judge... but a few of these folks are VERY strange individuals.
I am never ceasing to be amazed by their actions.
That's a good point, Cid_cat, about modifying the rotation a bit to keep things flowing... but amazingly enough, it is almost always brought to my attention when the rotation is fudged. Even when it's only a song or two!
I guess I already know what I have to do, as I believe I am facing some extraordinarily bad regulars... and I need to be a hard ass and tell them to fix their act, or find another show.
I've exhausted every other avenue over the last year with no improvement...
At least I've gotten some of this off my chest... It helps to talk to other people in the business.
Again, Thanks for your tips!
-D
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  #6  
Old October 10th, 2002, 07:14 AM
SteveWalker SteveWalker is offline
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Quote:
Originally posted by Cid_cat
[b]As the KJ, you should be able to control the mix to some extent. Take a look at the song list as it occurs and maybe move one or two songs to keep the mood going. Also, I try to encourage my regulars to try some newer music when the nights are slower.
Cid_cat,

Those are good suggestions but don't forget that the singers expect a fair rotation which means you don't re-order the singers every time someone sings a song that is too slow...or...too old... or...whatever.

Most singers know what songs they can sing and what song they want to sing. Old farts aren't interested in singing newer music because they NEVER listen to it - da. If the customers want a specific type of entertainment, then they can hire their favorite band.

Karaoke is obviously overrun with ameteur singers who very often cause normal people to run for the door.

Steve

Above All Remember: "It's Only Karaoke"
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  #7  
Old October 10th, 2002, 08:41 AM
Wayne White Wayne White is offline
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Talking They are doing you a favor

Thank God for the regulars. It's these people who get us started when we go into a new club.

Yes some are bad singers, yes they sing 'ballads' and more 'ballads'. We try to lead by example and sing upbeat stuff when it's our turn. We also play a couple of current club dance tracks between rounds to change the mood and get people dancing.

We currently do 7 shows per week not counting the extra jobs we do on weekends and a good part of the crowd is usually people we consider regulars. I know some of them sip 2 cokes all night, or a bottomless cup of coffee (it's tough to spend alot of money when you go to karaoke every night, also hard to work if you get drunk every night), just remember this about bars, "people go where people are". Even a crowd who isn't spending a lot of money gives the appearance of being busy which will cause some people to stay who may have turned around and left if it was empty.

I may be dumb, but, I have loaned money to a few. Sometimes you get it back, sometimes you don't. Not because they are customers, but, because they have become friends over the several years I have known them.

Just my opinion.

Wayne
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  #8  
Old October 10th, 2002, 01:36 PM
Cid_cat Cid_cat is offline
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Believe me, I know that people WATCH the rotation and they KNOW exactly when they're supposed to sing. It's amazing! I'm just saying that on occasion, the KJ MUST control the show, not the other way around, that's why you're being paid.

Sometimes you just gotta give em some tough love and let them know that you enjoy them being there but they don't have to be there for the show to go on. February will be 4 years I've been hosting shows and it's been a helluva learning experience. Karaoke is 50% singing, 40% people skills and 10% money.
At least for me...but I still love it and it's easier than working for someone else.

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  #9  
Old October 10th, 2002, 03:32 PM
kedmison kedmison is offline
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Post Rotation

Cid_cat,

I agree with you. A lot of it has to do with the kj themselves. My groups have learned that after the first or second rotation that I try my best to work new people into the rotation. They know this and accept it because 1, it's my show, but 2 and more important, they know I'm trying my best to be fair to everyone. And we all know how long the rotations can take sometime. You have to let those new people in if you want them to become part of your regulars. The only people I have to contend with that get upset about not getting up quick enough are those that have already had too much to drink.

Just last week I had a guy want to make an announcement. His announcement started out that his table (who none were singing)was tired of hearing country. I don't sing a lot of country; mostly 50'&60's, but that crowd, that night was singing predominatly country. I took the microphone back and politely told him there were three possible remedies for his problem; 1. Find a song he wanted to hear and sing it. 2. Find someone who would sing it for him. OR 3. That we had both a front and back door and he could take his choice. To which the crowd stood and applauded. And believe it or not he came up to me afterward and apologized and admitted he had had to much to drink. Be fair, be firm, and be nice. Most of the time it works.

Kelly
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  #10  
Old October 10th, 2002, 05:20 PM
SteveWalker SteveWalker is offline
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kedmison,

You don't have to kiss their ass to have regulars - just provide a good show. If the music isn't upbeat enough alternate upbeat DJ music for a while and keep the rotation in tact. I don't understand why he was allowed to take the mike in the first place?

Steve
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  #11  
Old October 10th, 2002, 08:23 PM
George George is offline
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The problems addressed here are not unique unto Karaoke. Most clubs have always been comprised of two groups; the entertainers, and those who come to be entertained. Karaoke is unusual in the sense that those being entertained become entertainers for three minutes a crack. Just because a club owner chooses to use Karaoke as his live entertainment media does not make that club "exclusive territory" for Karaoke enthusiasts only. There will always be those who come simply to be entertained.

What about those "regulars" who entertain not, and drink not, or even those who sing but do not spend? Are they to be branded simply because they don't get slopped faced like the "good old boys", the ones who you admit cause most of the problems?

This problem is not new and was taken care of generations ago by what used to be called a "cover charge". It was the usual practice, was expected to be paid at the entrance, and was accepted without question. During the course of the evening, in most any reputable club, the cover charge was credited against what drinks, meals etc. one purchased during the evening. If one chose not to drink, but came because of the live entertainment, they had the right to do so, having paid for the priviledge. This satisfied the problem you are now facing.

And what's wrong with Patsy Cline's "Crazy"? It's still selling. You who espouse only today's "upbeat" stuff will one day still be singing your favorites when they've become boring , so best be a bit more tolerant.

Brand me an old fuddy if you wish, but at least in my time they didn't have to put a little block on the envelopes to tell us where to put the stamp

George

Last edited by George; October 11th, 2002 at 08:36 AM.
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  #12  
Old October 11th, 2002, 11:32 AM
kedmison kedmison is offline
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Question Handling the crowd

Steve,

I understand now why you and George seem to get into it from time to time. You seem to read these post from a different angle. I never once said or insinuated that I "kiss ass" towards the regulars. And "He" got the mike because I gave it to him. "My crowd" is usually a very good crowd. We sing, we also allow people to come up and tell jokes. So they do get to talk from time to time. Oh well. I Enjoy reading your posts. Even when I don't always agree with you.


Kelly
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  #13  
Old October 11th, 2002, 04:32 PM
DennisH DennisH is offline
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I agree with kedmison... George, you seem to want to take offense, when it's unnecessary.
I have no problems with patsy cline... Nor do I have a problem with people who do or don't get "slopped faced like the "good old boys"... the issue with that, was that they weren't spending ANY money at the bar at all!
And this goes to Wayne White...
Now you may argue that it's expensive to go to every karaoke show and drop a few bills every time... "(it's tough to spend alot of money when you go to karaoke every night, also hard to work if you get drunk every night)"... well in my opinion, the only solution to that is... DON'T COME TO KARAOKE EVERY NIGHT!
I have NEVER been out anywhere expecting entertainment for free... I'm afraid the world just doesn't work that way.
There are many times I would have liked to have gone out, but couldn't afford to. Should I have expected the movie theatre to let me in for free? Or the concert venue to sympathize and not charge me a dime for tickets?
Karaoke is entertainment, and EVERYONE who participates has an obligation to pay for it... and getting drunk is by no means the only solution. How about tipping the waitress who has been bringing you coffee or soda all night? I don't see what so wrong about expecting karaoke patrons to do at least that...
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  #14  
Old October 11th, 2002, 05:14 PM
George George is offline
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KEDMISSIONS REMARKS WERE NOT ADDRESSED TO ME.NOW WHO'S TAKING OFFENSE WHEN IT NEED NOT BE? I DIDN'T DIRECT MY REMARKS TO ANYONE SPECIFICALLY, DID I? SURE WENT ON THE DEFENSIVE FOR NO REASON.Y'ALL ARE THE ONES COMPLAINING ABOUT THE DRUNKS ALL THROUGH THESE KJ POSTS. DO YOU EXPECT THEM TO SPEND BIG MONEY AND STAY SOBER!!! YOU JUST MIGHT NOT BE ABLE TO HAVE IT BOTH WAYS. IN YOUR POST ABOVE YOU SAID SOME SPENT NO MONEY AT ALL, THEN COMPLAIN BECAUSE THEY DO NOT TIP???ALL I DID WAS MIRROR BACK EVERYTHING I'D BEEN READING IN A TONGUE AND CHEEK MANNER. CAN'T HELP IT IF YOU CAN'T SEE IT. NO OFFENSE WAS MEANT.


Last edited by George; October 11th, 2002 at 05:50 PM.
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  #15  
Old October 11th, 2002, 06:12 PM
DennisH DennisH is offline
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Umm... yes George, they were directed at you AND Steve.
And dude... you need to seriously calm down or you're going to have a heart attack.
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  #16  
Old October 11th, 2002, 06:30 PM
George George is offline
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Dude...
I'm not the one who got all bent out of shape, and came back raising cain, so don't turn this around on me. In my original post, I simply expressed the point that the freeloaders had a right to be there. I also told you how this problem was dealt with in the past, because it has always been a problem. That was the main thrust of the entire post. I was not confrontational, but objective.

Now for something you'll probably really not want to hear. You started out wanting how to deal with the,"BAD"guys. That, frankly is none of your concern, unless they become argumentative, or start heckling. You job is to entertain, and the freeloaders are the "house's" problem. Do you really think that Frank Sinatra, or Dean Martin, or whoever got concerned because the guy at table 14 wasn't spending money? That was a concern of the house, and the cover charge or the minimum took care of that. Now if the club owners of today haven't gumption enough to do those things to solve the problem, knowing it worked in the past, it certainly is not the concern of the entertainer, so to answer your original question...what do you about the BAD guys(meaning non-spenders)...absolutely nothing. . It is not your concern.

George
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  #17  
Old October 11th, 2002, 07:39 PM
DennisH DennisH is offline
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Do you make it a habit of always pointing out how wrong someones post is?
Look George... I know you're just trying to make me understand that my problem is not really my problem. Theoretically, you are correct, I suppose... but your simple solutions are no help in the real world in which I live.
I need to handle this problem, not ignore it.
Oh, and pardon me for raising so much cain...
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  #18  
Old October 11th, 2002, 08:02 PM
George George is offline
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Dennis,
I only make a habit of pointing out how wrong someone's posts are , when they try to make me out to be the ogre when I wasn't.

As I've already said, I sympathize with the freeloader problem, and can see the KJ's concern from the standpoint of making certain the club owner can foot the bills, but revenue is still the club owner's concern, and I'd most certainly discuss that with the owner, making it clear that I'd do my job and keep the crowd entertained, but revenue was his concern. The solutions are not theoretical. they worked for years, and somewhere along the line the club owners got gutless. Is it really any different than paying to get into those theaters you referred to?I think that's the most objective answer you can expect.

take care,

George
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  #19  
Old October 11th, 2002, 09:14 PM
SteveWalker SteveWalker is offline
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Re: Handling the crowd

Wow I almost missed all the excitement! kedmison I wasn't thinking of anyone HERE when I said "kiss ass", all KJ's have regulars not just you and me. Cid_cat said "As the KJ, you should be able to control the mix" and he is right but the mix doesn't have to be MIXING UP THE ROTATION which is seen by the singers as unfair. Just add some upbeat DJ music to fix it if need be.

I was razzin you a little about giving the mike but you're an alright guy and George is too. Hey! The next time the people at the table get sick of country music put him on stage to tell their jokes but make em promise not to complain to your singers about their choice of music. The policy is not to boo... the singers right?


George,
You know, these boys are alright!

Steve
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  #20  
Old October 11th, 2002, 09:29 PM
kedmison kedmison is offline
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Talking Easy Boys!!

Hey guys,...

Take it easy. Boy did I open a can of worms. lol. For the record,...my post was NOT directed at George, it was directed at Steve. And no I'm not mad at anyone. I was just poking back.

Take a chill pill DennisH. lol.

Hey we all have different types of crowds and we all learn to handle them in the way that suits us best.

Let's all go to our corners....

Kelly
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