The Lawsuits Have Started In Virgina

[billyo]

i don't dis-agree with you guys,i've only been in one of the VFW's, i came in with my KJ friend who was playing there at that time, and i didnt have any problems getting drinks ( probably being nice? )..tell you what i'm going to call my friend and i will ask her to make sure ..

[billyo]

sorry guys, i was wrong,it's not the VFW nor the American Legion, it's the Moose Club

[RandyMcCharles]

I am finding it pretty easy to stop buying SC products as they are hardly producing anything new and have discontinued most (if not all) of their custom disk outlets. Most of what I have bought recently is from UK producers: ZOOM, SBI, etc.

[Musicman51]

Dale is right...i've been doing karaoke at the Americian Legion up here for going on 6 years now. Just try walking in alone and not be a member. They will nail you before you even reach the bar. We have more security, then any eagles, moose, or elks club i've ever played in. Infact, guest at our american legion up here, even though they are signed in, cannot go to the bar and order a drink. The person who signed them in has to do the ordering and paying. We do have open food night to the public, but NO alcoholic drinks are sold, also during the public bingo games, water and pop only....

[capnvic]

Originally Posted by ddouglass

I beg to differ with you. Most American Legions and VFW do limit who can come in and they usually know who their members are. Members can bring in a guest, but they have to be with that member and cannot enter on their own. Not all American Legions and VFW serve drinks and some who do will only sell to their own members and not to members from other posts.
The VFW I play at is one of the exceptions and is open to the local populace only because we are one of three (used to be two) clubs in the local area. This is not the case in the larger towns around us. By the way Musicman144, VFW National does not even want to hear anything about the canteen most posts have. It is like they want to stick their heads in the sand. The Bylaws that set down the rules are locally produced and are sent to National just to make sure the legal wording is correct.
All that said I know Musicman is correct that the music organizations have no problem getting in any club to check licenses for things like jukeboxes, TV and radio usage. I doubt that the KIAA would have any problem either.

DDouglas is right, as an officer and member of an American Legion post, I would have to abide by all rules and regulations pertaining to guests. I saw the court documents for the Virginia case, if anyone wants to read it let me know and I will post the link....I know that outside of Ron, several of my other KJs are extremely concerned....

[ddouglass]

Originally Posted by capnvic

DDouglas is right, as an officer and member of an American Legion post, I would have to abide by all rules and regulations pertaining to guests. I saw the court documents for the Virginia case, if anyone wants to read it let me know and I will post the link....I know that outside of Ron, several of my other KJs are extremely concerned....

Please post that link. It would be very interesting to see exactly what they are claiming.

[capnvic]

Originally Posted by ddouglass

Please post that link. It would be very interesting to see exactly what they are claiming.

I attached the complaint as a PDF document. There is some very interesting if not frightening aspects of this lawsuit.

[RandyMcCharles]

I like the description of how unlicensed use damages the industy for both producer and legitimate KJ. The problem I see is in point 94. "investigators observed Defendants benefiting from unauthorized, counterfit copies". The document seems to imply that all HDs are illegal (point 76) but this will never stand. Courts have already ruled that purchasers have the right to change formats. The defendants will have to produce original disks to show that they are legitimate. Then will then be a battle in court about 1-to-1 format transfer that is probably what Sound Choice is really after. Sound Choice will say that just because a KJ produces original discs doesn't mean that his HD is the only copy and the disks are stored away. This will be a mess. If the jury has any smarts they will say that the vendors product is unmanagable and that the only should be on Sound Choice to make their product less priratable or find other means to encourage licensed use.
I feel very sorry for the legitimate KJs who are being put through this process. They are the sacraficial lambs who are being used to bring the HD debate back to court.

[muzicman144]

It will be very hard to prove these cases as no evidence has been taken other than the plaintiff's "eyes". Any illegal files or hard drives are easily concealed and replaced by a legal copy.
I sincerely believe this is just a follow up on the first letter Sound Choice sent out threatening the venues that hire KJ"s. They openly state that if one who is accused pays $6500., they will be dropped from the lawsuit. This is just EXTORTION under the guise of legitimacy.
Boycott Sound Choice and Stingray. Remember SC sold out to Stingray, who's owner just happens to be kin. This allows Stingray to operate as Sound Choice did, but now Sound Choice can chase these lawsuits forever without fear of a KJ boycott as they no longer produce CDG's. But, remember, Stingray, (aka Sound Choice) is still under the Slep family management, and comes forth like a virgin with no dog in the fight. Bull Crap!!!!!
Boycott Both Companies and any company or organization the Sleps are associated with.
muzicman144

[Musicman51]

It's actually going further then that randy. They are assuming every kj that has a show is making a profit off them {SC and the Slep Clan}. Ask billyo how much profit he's made in the past few years. These folks should drag down every piece of paper to show after all the operating expense they make very little in profit. Sound Choice is not the ultra karaoke super disc manufacture they portray themselves to be. Sure a cadillac is a great car, but so is a lincoln. Now that's actually a small point. But they are assuming everyone...no exceptions who has "Format Shiffted" is a theif. I showed this to my neighbor who is also my family attorney. His daughter and her husband attend my shows, and are regular singers in our small community up here. His thoughts about these "moving Papers" {after he stoped laughing}, were, they were "poorly written", "the attorney who wrote this motion was sloppy", and no federal judge that he has ever been before, will read the "Sound Choice Infomercial" portion of this mess". And that's what he called this very shoddy written court motion. He said it appears someone drafted this using a pay to use law site. Like they have for you to file your own will, divorce, and bankruptcy with. And of course we haven't heard the opposing side's arguments yet. Those are the ones i'm waiting to read. My family lawyer said the whole lawsuit was a sham. That these guys are crying in their milk because technology has bit them in the behind. I hate'sa theif to. But hey, i have been a victim of injustice, we all have. Tjhey failed to mention in their suit the strong arm tactics, and forced search's and the very fact, that they themselves have produced CD+G's that they clearly did not own the rights to. The "Eagles" Sound Choice disc being just one of several i'm told. Sound Choice...gather up your marbles, and go home. When you can come back, and learn to be a good karaoke neighbor, reaching out to the legal kj's for a solution to this problem. Then you can come back, and we might....just might...let you sell a few more cdg's....

[Musicman51]

One last thought i was going to mention. The term "Marks" in the law suit. Those Sound Choice sacret holy "Marks". Now that mtu has created a state of the art karaoke presentation software program. That can literally mask, avoid, those sound choice sacret holy "marks", in both the title and credit screens. Do you suppose the slep clan might.....naw

[billyo]

just got a question about the word "karaoke " i've known for years that it was a japanese term meaning empty orchestra, i was just wondering if they ( SC ) paid to use the word " karaoke " to the japanese people who invented karaoke or copied their inventions...i played in asia for years and i used to see this kind of entertainment back then, before it even became popular in the U.S. now to your question of how much i made doing this as a hobby ?..well lets see, i started doing karaoke when cassette was out, probabbly +_ $5,000, when the disc came out, just updating my gears +_$12,000 not including the disc ,laptops (3 ) 2008 Toyota Tacoma 4 door P/u truck $23,000, camper top $1,000, gas, binders, printer/papers etc..(unknown amount )...doing karaoke, i made.....maybe closed to $1,500 taxes deducted...mind you this is just a hobby , this is not including the tunes i bought from itunes,( 6,000 tunes to date @ a .99/1.25 ea.) and diff. dj. softwares, maybe you're wondering why am i still doing this.if i am not making any money...i"ve been playing since i was 18 yrs. old ..simple i love playing music and also gets me out of the house....

[billyo]

i was just wondering if these so called " marks " can be edited using Hosters removed silence.or since 4.11 has a marquee , maybe all KJ's can typed in " NO SOUND CHOICE DISC WILL BE PLAYED ON THIS SHOW...EVER !!!!! "on their marquees..

[Musicman51]

Well billyo, sorry to be the messenger of bad news. But if you will look under the thread KIAA Membership, i posted two craigs list links. According to that guy, 80-90% of all kj's are theives anyways. And those who don't make $200 a night for a week night show, and $250 a night for a week-end show, is a theif. So is that Billy Theif, or do you prefer William Thief? hehehe...see how crazy this has become? if it wern't so **** sad, i'd be funny....

[billyo]

Originally Posted by Musicman51

Well billyo, sorry to be the messenger of bad news. But if you will look under the thread KIAA Membership, i posted two craigs list links. According to that guy, 80-90% of all kj's are theives anyways. And those who don't make $200 a night for a week night show, and $250 a night for a week-end show, is a theif. So is that Billy Theif, or do you prefer William Thief? hehehe...see how crazy this has become? if it wern't so **** sad, i'd be funny....

i was making that much , but i also do a lot of charity work, friends parties ( wedding, daughters 18th b-days graduation days etc. all freebies ) if i were to charged people and if playing music is my means i would be charging more than $200-250, i would spend that much in a hearbeat and it wouldn't bother me..i only charged $ 175.-$200 a night but i don't have to pay for food/drinks tabs..the most you can get around this area is $200 since the economy went down, and i stopped playing for a year all the offers i got within that year, was passed on to friends that do this for a living, i only started playing again maybe the last 6 mos. which is only 1 day a week and the country clubs every other week..and if he categorized that as being a thief..well that's he's problem..i know that i'm not..and also what is the diff. bet weekdays and weekends,anyway, you bring in the same gears on both days anyway, set up the same place( area)? sing the same songs..etc.

[RandyMcCharles]

I think what SC is suggesting is that "illegitimate KJs" made lots of money because they did not put out a fortune to buy 6000 licensed tracks. I could not get a feel from the document of how profitable they felt legitimate KJs may be.

I'm sorry if I sounded like I was supporting SC's position. I am not. I was just suggesting that they have described their problem in terms a jury can understand, in a few simple four letter words.

SC's problem is real. If they cannot make a profit on CDG sales they are out of business. Piracy, which they have described, contributes to that problem. All of Canada's karaoke producers have gone out of business. None of them credited this to piracy. All of them said it was due to rising license fees from rights holders. Even fees on manufactured products went up so they had to raise sales prices to between $40 - $50 a disc at which point sales fell off a cliff. Result? The Canadian industry killed itself.
SC makes no mention of rising royalties impacting their bottom line, though I am sure that is a big contributor.

I have heard that country music rights holders have not increased fees as much, which may explain why 90% of Chartbuster new releases are country.

SC also makes no mention of increased competition from UK manufacturers, which as far as I can tell are taking over the market. Canadian karaoke suppliers all carry UK brands, most at better prices than SC. I have seen play books here with virtually no SC tracks and I think this is because the KJ only bought cheaper discs (which is often painfully obvious).

I agree that SC is going about this whole business backwards and all they are really doing is just speeding their demise. If piracy is the final nail in the coffin (which it isn't) then the entire industry will soon follow. Because the entire industry won't die but will just go global, SC is clearly wrong.

I mentioned in a post many months ago: the only KJ here in Calgary with HD that I have talked to about licensing says she gets her discs and HD audited twice a year as part of her business licenses. Seems to me that is a far better solution. (She uses Hoster BTW)

[Musicman51]

I have heard that country music rights holders have not increased fees as much, which may explain why 90% of Chartbuster new releases are country.

No thats not the reason actually. Chartbuster is a spinoff from the old "American Accompaniment" in nashville tn. American had a state of the art studio back then in nashville, and went to recording full time and gave up the karaoke aspect of their business, which was all cassette by the way, with the exception of 2 or 3 cdg's. I purchased one of each copy they had left in their library upon their closing up shop. When the FedEx man delivered those boxes of cassettes, my family thought i'd lost my mind. Took all of us about 10 minutes to unload that truck. Great multiplex and vocal track karaoke cassettes. Those old recordings beat anything...anything done today. Using the original musicians on mostly first run original tracks. So now chartbuster is located in Knoxville TN, and uses some of the same nashville studio musicians you hear that play on the original recordings on the radio today. Chartbuster is clearly the leader in country karaoke, just as american accompaniment was before them. Pocket Songs for instance is clearly the leader in big band, and standard music by the way. Pocket Songs are not known for their country releases by the same token. Hope this helps.

[muzicman144]

I mentioned in a post many months ago: the only KJ here in Calgary with HD that I have talked to about licensing says she gets her discs and HD audited twice a year as part of her business licenses. Seems to me that is a far better solution. (She uses Hoster BTW)[/quote]

The last thing i want is the government attempting to regulate, license, and enforce the "karaoke" business. I don't think it will be too long before some town or city is going to require a business license because it is a pretty huge tax loss as most KJ's pay no tax on their income unless they recieve a 1099. We are talking millions and millions of tax revenue across the country. It's got to happen!
muzicman144

[RandyMcCharles]

Musicman51, great background on Chartbuster. Thanks.

Muzicman144, I was suggesting the licensing/audit as an alternative to KIAA going around dragging KJs into court. I would rather have the gvt give me the 'good-to-go' than buy a promise from KIAA. Lesser of 2 evils.

BTW Small business in Canada is more rigorously regulated than in the US. I know a guy who started a company and was driven out of business by regulation. He started again in the US and was a millionaire in 3 years.

[Musicman51]

Walt, i agree withya. If this non scense gets too far out of hand, i will sell my gear and git out of it. I'm serious. I'll go back to playing guitar and pedal steel in a band. At my age, my blood pressure doesn't need the excitement..hehehehehe