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Singers & Hosts Wisdom Post how to be a great karaoke singer or host.

View Poll Results: what is a fair amount?
100.00 - 150.00 28 9.18%
150.00 - 200.00 123 40.33%
200.00 - 250.00 91 29.84%
250.00 - up 63 20.66%
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  #161  
Old February 22nd, 2007, 11:39 PM
muzicman144 muzicman144 is offline
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Thumbs down top paY

I Guess Slefar Has My Vote For The Best Of The Best. I'm Kinda Old And Remember 8 Tracks, But Seriously Can't Remember A Karaoke 8 Track Recording, But I Will Not Say It Didn't Happen. $975 For A Regular Show Of Karaoke Is Fantastic And I Congratulate You For Getting It. I Don't Do Karaoke, But Do A One Man Shows Up And Down The East Coast, And, With The Lite Show, Fog, Smoke, Etc. At Private And Public Shows, We Are Lucky To Do The Same, And It Is Repeat Business. Once Again, The Only Karaoke Show I Have Seen In About Ten Years Worth The $250 He Gets, And He Should Do Better, Is Alan Ross In Nags Head, N.c., And Believe Me, He Doesn't Know Who I Am. I Travel The East Coast From New York City To Miami, Fla Doing Shows, Don't Have A Dog In The Fight. This Is Just An Opinion, And Only Meant That Way. No Reflection On Anyone. For Alan Ross' Info, I Stopped In Nags Head, N.c., On The Way To Meet Billy Joe Royal, Who Has A Home In Cape Hatteras, To Do A Show, Saw Your Show A Second Time. Alan, You Have Karaoke Right, But You Should Be A One Man Show On The Road.

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Ps If I Ever Get Out To Skefar's Neighborhood, Can We Exchange Phone #s So I Can Negotiate Some Of That $975 Per Job.
  #162  
Old February 23rd, 2007, 12:30 AM
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Out of curiosity, what seems to make Alan Rosses show a whole lot different than the others who may be simply call up singers one at a time like everyone else.

What else does he do?
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  #163  
Old February 23rd, 2007, 11:32 AM
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First I want to thank muzicman144 for the very kind words. Next time you're in the neighborhood, please identify yourself to me so I can thank you personally.

Please understand, although I may not feel completely worthy of your praise, it would be disingenuous of me to disagree with your assessment.

But seriously, to answer Bryant's question, "...what seems to make Alan Rosses show a whole lot different than the others..."

Bryant, I wish I knew exactly what it was that draws people to our show, but the truth is, I think it's one of those intangible things that defies description.

When I knock on doors to sell our shows to new venues, I tell them about our format and the manner in which we approach the shows, but in the end, I invariably have to tell them that to really understand, they have to come out and see the show. Once they see it, we get booked.

When people ask me what they can do to make their shows better, I tell them this:
First, it's not a matter of being better. It's a different approach that works for our area. What works for us, may not work in other areas and vise versa. I went to a show on Bourbon Street in New Orleans (pre-Katrina) and found a show that works perfectly for that street, but would fail miserably in our area. So the first thing you have to do is understand your client base and the flow of traffic in and out of your venue.

Second, we have to have rules. People like structure. They like to be treated fairly and they like to be able to enjoy themselves in a safe environment. You will always have some who dislike the rules, but the majority of people appreciate them. Some of the rules include, no swearing on the mic; no drinking or smoking on the stage; no one is allowed to jump up and start singing with someone unless they are invited and are not already in the rotation; the rotation is the bible and we don't deviate from it; everyone gets one turn on stage in each rotation - period; new vocalists wanting to sing after the first rotation are added into the rotation every other song so there isn't a two hour wait to sing their first song. Detailing why these work would take a whole volume so I'll try to move on.

This all leads up to the third, but most important point which is to respect the vocalists. Karaoke is all about the audience and when someone steps up onto that stage, it is the hosts' responsibility to help them shine.
We work hard to give them the best quality sound for their voice, which means adjusting each person and each song constantly throughout the night.

We also police the stage to prevent unwanted distractions. Anyone messing with the vocalist is messing with the show and that's unacceptable. Good singers don't want to sing with crappy sound and drunken idiots jumping up to "help" them sing.

You don't have to have the most expensive system, you just need to know how to tweak it. I've tried to train all our employees to adjust the sound for each vocalist to make the room sound like it is a concert hall.

We also never compete with our vocalists. I've seen shows where the host is so insecure that when a good vocalist comes in and gets a huge response from the crowd, the host will try singing their big song to show that they can sing too. This is childish. Embrace great vocalists. Give them their props. The audience will appreciate you much more if you are secure enough in yourself to let others shine. There have been many many people that sing way, Way, WAY better than I do, and I love it! It makes for a great show that people want to come watch. This is all part of creating an environment in which great vocalists want to be. You get better singers, you get more audience. You get more audience and the bar gets more patrons - more patrons, more revenue = job security.


Finally, Give your show a more professional look. There are several ways to do this.
1) Dress appropriately. Even If you're doing a show in a local bar, dress one step up from the majority of the patrons. If everyone else is in t-shirts and shorts, wear a button down shirt and jeans. If you're in a Country Club, wear a suit. Always look your best for the environment.
2) Have good looking song books and request slips. Use a graphic designer if design isn't your strong suit. Make your books and slips look like they were made by a professional. Then, keep your books clean. This can be a nightmare, but no one likes to open a song book that's been abused, had drinks spilled on it, has unsolicited comments written on the pages, or is unorganized. Make your books user friendly by thinking about it this way... Think about the one person you respect the most. Whether it's a family member, a friend or a celebrity, think about how proud you would be for the person you most respect to see your song book. If you can see them being impressed with your song books and requests slips, then you've got it right.
3) Don't drink while working. If you stay sharp, people will respect that you know what you're doing.
4) Find someone in your area who has solid, reliable sound design experience. Ask them to help you find the best way to set up your system to get the best quality sound while being as inobtrusive as possible. You want the audience to hear the sound without necessarily being aware of the equipment it takes to produce it. This means tucking cords in so they're not seen, getting a road case that keeps your equipment neat and positioning things so the vocalists can really take the spotlight. I've seen shows where the host puts a table on the floor, puts their equipment together on it and has wires hanging all over the place and it looks really unprofessional.
5) Be professional and respectful in your delivery. As you introduce people up to sing, leave no dead air. Ad lib, improvise, repeat their name, ask people to tip the bartender, whatever, just don't leave any dead air hanging while you wait for the next vocalist to begin. Some KJs fill this time in with music, but my feeling is, if you are letting people take that much time to get up to the stage, your show is dragging. Keep things moving. Pick on people who are taking their time to get up to the mic., but do it in a nice way. Never be outright insulting.

The bottom line is, I've seen many good shows, but the best are the ones that are polished and sharp. The host has a great personality and from song to song there is a really good tempo to the hosts' delivery. Remain upbeat and enthusiastic and that energy will transfer over to the audience. The host must set the tone and be fully aware of the energy in the room. A good host can read the crowd and adjust their own energy to accommodate.

This is what I do and it works for us. As I said, it may not work for your area, but don't be afraid to try something different. We are also blessed by having what I like to call, drunken Karaoke shows to the North and South of us. Most of the really wild, drunken people hang out in those places and allow us to shine. Not that we don't get our share of drunks who get up and try to slur out a song, but by having a number of good vocalists, the drunks are more comic relief for the audince rather than being the obnoxious frontrunners. When the drunks outnumber the rest of the audience, they set the tone for the show rather than the host. This is a disaster.

Well, I don't know if I've answered your question, but to the best of my knowledge, that's what separates our shows from the rest. I'll let muzicman144 give you his take on it and see if anything I said makes sense to him or if he has other reasons for his opinion.

- Alan Ross
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  #164  
Old February 23rd, 2007, 12:36 PM
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To muzicman144:
While I certainly appreciate that you think I deserve to be a One Man Show, and I cannot thank you enough for the huge compliment, I am very comfortable in my skin as I am. When I was younger, I wanted all the fame and fortune and tried to pursue that career, but as I started getting more and more recognition, I realized that I value my personal life and privacy too much to really make it big.

I have also discovered the joy that comes from helping others realize their dreams. As a KJ, I have the honor and priviledge to give other people the opportunity to expose a side of themselves they may not have been able to in any other venue. I've seen people with huge insecurities, find a home with Karaoke and develop a sense of self-worth - even if it's just in one area of their lives. There is a tremendous sense of satisfaction that comes with helping someone find something that makes them a more complete person. To watch someone blossom because of something you encouraged them to try is the greatest reward I get from this career.

My dirty little secret is that I am actually very shy and when I pull on the cloak of Alan Ross (my stage name, not my birth name), I become the performer people expect. My dear friends have some idea of who I really am, but only my wife has any idea what really makes me tick and how I feel about myself.

Crowds make me neverous and uncomfortable, which is why I need the mask of my stage personae to do what I do. I am very insecure about my abilities, but the Alan Ross character slips on and off the stage with ease. At home, my wife will tell you what a clutz I am and how silly I can be.

I say all this to let other people know that they can do what I do if they have a desire. I have always wanted to be a showman, but with limited talent, I had to develop skills. I was not blessed as some people are with natural talent. I've worked hard to grow and develop the skills necessary for a performance artist. It did help to be a big ham as a child, but that was to try to get attention as the "middle" child in a large family.

I spent years listening and disecting great vocalists and trying to duplicate in my voice what they do with theirs. I studied hard and learned how to use my voice to maintain proper pitch, tone and power. I've never had any professional vocal training, but I highly recommend it. I have sought the wisdom of great vocalists I've been fortunate enough to meet over the years and those with the best voices have learned the same skills I try to use. It's a learning process and every year, I try to improve. It is a lifelong commitment and it requires consistant training. You can never stop learning how to improve.

I've been in the entertainment field for the past 28 years and I am just now starting to feel like I can sing. I am better than I ever was, but I still have so much to learn and there is tremendous room for improvement. I used to say, if it takes until I'm 93 and I have to become the oldest New Recording Artist at the Grammy's, I'll keep trying. But truly, my focus has shifted from being very ego-centric to wanting to be a catalyst for other people to shine. It's much more rewarding.

But you have to have a tough skin. Not everyone is going to like you. There are certainly people who do not like me, but they respect what I do and they do not cause trouble. I've learned to accept those people that don't like me, so long as they don't disrupt the shows. Take me out back and kick my butt if you want, but don't do anything to make the audience uncomfortable or you will see another side. When I'm at work, I am all about the show. The audience doesn't care if I've got the flu, or if I'm in a bad mood. They are there to be entertained and forget their troubles. It's my job to give them that escape. This is what drives me.

Everyone has troubles and I consider my self blessed. I have a good job, a good home and a wife that loves me. Who am I to bring my troubles out to a show with me in front of people who may be in far more distress than I can imagine. We've had the priviledge to meet and perform for people with Cancer, MS, paralysis, heart disease, strokes, family problems, and even missing limbs. It is humbling to have these people make a special trip to our venue because they are made to feel appreciated and special. With our schedule, we don't usually do shows at Nursing Homes or Special Care facilities, these people come out to see us. What an honor.

My greatest honor is to perform for members of the military. I have the greatest respect for them and I'm not afraid to show it. I was fortunate to be living here, near where the Wright Brothers took their first historic flight at Kitty Hawk in 1903. In 2003, we celebrated the Centennial Of Flight and celebrities of all kinds came to the celebration. One of the original surviving Tuskegee Airmen came out to one of my shows and I became very emotional when, after singing "God Bless The USA" in his honor, he came over and shook my hand. What a moment! Later that evening, one of the officials of the Centennial celebration, who'd been watching the show, invited me to perform during the ceremonies - on the main stage, where people like Chuck Yager, Neil Armstrong, Buzz Aldrin, John Travolta and President Bush all made their presentations. I will never forget that feeling!!

Anyway, I just wanted you to know that I appreciate the very kind things you have said about me, and for others to know that they can do it too. I don't often get the kind of positive feedback you would think. It's become expected and most KJs have learned that they don't get nearly the kind of audience response when they're working as they do when they visit a new area and sing. People grow used to you and eventually expect you to be good, so you don't often get the high praise. It's always appreciated and it's not going to my head, so keep it coming!! (just kidding)

- Alan Ross

Sorry I'm so long winded!! I'll bet Bryant's sorry he ever opened the door.
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  #165  
Old February 23rd, 2007, 06:07 PM
muzicman144 muzicman144 is offline
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To answer the question of the difference in a Alan Ross show and others is not simple. I mainly mentioned his show, and i have seen karaoke shows up and down the east coast for years, because of the very things he just mentioned. He takes care of the little details that semi and non professionals ignore. Neat stage, stage presence, quality sound and the knowledge to adapt that sound to make the less talented singer sound better, and the good singer sound even better. So many times i have seen the kj set his sound and never change it except for the volumne knob. Lastly, there is very little dead time (ten silent seconds is an eternity of emptiness on stage), and he is a professional entertainer. Now, i don't Personally know Alan, but used him simply as the professional kj who runs the type of show that will always get the top dollar in any area he chooses to play in, as would anyone else who runs this caliber of show.
The reason for this thread is to discuss the rate of pay across the country. One kj show in Miami, Fl. may get $150 and another may get $400. at the same place. Pretty easy to see why this is so. Bottom line is, if you aren't the one getting top dollar in your area, chances are you don't have to look very far to find out the reason. No one deserves more money simply because someone else is getting more than they do.
I don't intend to step on anyone's toes and these are my opinions only.

May your show always be appauded
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  #166  
Old February 24th, 2007, 02:42 PM
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I also run my shows like Alan does. Only difference I have is if a new singer comes up I just add them right into the end of the current rotation. It works pretty well and some singers are exceited to get up right away.

I am from Minnesota orginally. Now live in Iowa. One of my best bookings is in Wisconsin where I make from $300-$600 depending on if it is a holiday or not. Yes they have local KJ's... but I have seen their shows and there is much to be desired from them to be nice. Not to mention but there seem to be a ton of fights that go on when the local KJ's play. So I get asked to drive 241 miles one way just to do a show in a VERY small town of only 200 or so and make $300+. The best night in Wisconsin is New Years Eve... The bars do not close!! So that means I can make up to $600 in one night. (stupid Packers played this last NYE and I had to start 2 hours late kind of sucked lol) but still made $500 on the night so not a total loss.

Weddings are becoming very big in karaoke now days... Already been booked for 4 or 5 weddings for this year already. (this is with DJ services as well) It is very nice as of being a KJ before I added on DJ so I can blow any regular DJ out of the water in song selection. Wold you believe that on top of most DJ who charge from 700-800 for 4 hours they have karaoke add on for $375 on top of their $700-800!!! That is very insane and this is after looking at the DJ's 500-1000 song selection book. Pretty sad how much they rip off the public lol. I am sorry I have been DJing for about 5 or 6 years now and been a KJ for around 10... DJing is 100 times easier then being a KJ... DJ there is very little to do but keep the crowd in it where KJ... you gotta GET the crowd into it in the first place set up more equipment (cause I do use full lighting in my karaoke shows just like I do for DJ or DJ/KJ shows gives a more spiced up mood) but incluse the TV and cables mics other tvs in the bars and then slips, books, rotations, fairness to every singer.... I am sorry but a KJ's job is 10 times harder and a DJ does not get crowd interaction as much as karaoke does... karaoke means the crowd is the show. However it is the people going out and buying CAVS and illegal hard drives off ebay and craig's list that can charge $100 a night and make it off it because they didnt spend anything in the first place to start like all us OLD CDG people.

Lol anyways that was long winded
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  #167  
Old February 24th, 2007, 04:14 PM
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I think the top DJ's and top KJ's can provide the same quality of entertainment but they are at the top of the pyrimid. In general the public expects DJ's to entertain at a much higher level and quality compared to KJ's. A professional DJ makes much more money and would not switch over to be a full time KJ. This is just my unbiased opinion as I'm am not a DJ. I am musician and professional singer.
  #168  
Old February 24th, 2007, 05:35 PM
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Yes that is right. The public thinks there is more to being a DJ then a KJ. However it is the other way around. a KJ puts a lot more time into their business. Making books is a long and tiresom project and are changed almost weekly if not monthly. Most DJ's do not even have books it is go up ask and pray they have the music you want.

A DJ plays music to get people up and dance... I have had nights where I sang for the first 2 hours out of 5 hours before people were brave enough to come up and sing but once you get them up there then they do not want to stop but that is what you have to do to keep your show going... I have never seen a DJ come out from behind his computer or CD tray to get a group dancing by dancing by him/herself out on a floor.

That is the problem out in the world is everyone knows how much a DJ is paid and that it is anywhere from $600-$1500 a night and bars are happy to pay that price but they are not happy to pay a KJ $200.00. Yes I know that a lot of troll KJ's have taken down the respectability of the karaoke industry. Once of my friends who used to even be my baby-sitter lol is now starting up her own karaoke system and I am sorry she is a horrible KJ when it comes to running a system. As a MC she is great! but she does not know how to adjust her music and vocals which is what makes a quality show. For me it would be rude to go up and tell her how to run her system even if it was to help her quality. I do have 9 years experience on her but I just do not know how she would take constructive critisizm from me knowing I am a KJ.... Any comments on how I could maybe go about helping her out? She does give a good show but she could give a heck of a lot better show.
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  #169  
Old February 24th, 2007, 06:52 PM
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Yes that is right. The public thinks there is more to being a DJ then a KJ................As a MC she is great! but she does not know how to adjust her music and vocals which is what makes a quality show.
The professional DJ can MC and motivate the crowd in a way only a KJ (except a very very few) could dream of doing. The professional DJ does more to learn the skill of being an MC and motivating a crowd. The KJ concentrates on motivating singers and adjusting their vocals. Actually, we are talking apples and oranges in making this comparison. I think the DJ profession would be a great leaning ground for KJ's because this is where the real people skills are learned and used.
  #170  
Old February 25th, 2007, 04:16 AM
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The professional DJ can MC and motivate the crowd in a way only a KJ (except a very very few) could dream of doing. The professional DJ does more to learn the skill of being an MC and motivating a crowd. The KJ concentrates on motivating singers and adjusting their vocals. Actually, we are talking apples and oranges in making this comparison. I think the DJ profession would be a great leaning ground for KJ's because this is where the real people skills are learned and used.
I starting as a KJ think it is the other way around. There is no way I would of ever became a DJ if it was not for being a KJ first. KJ/DJ does not have much of a difference... DJ/KJ and MC is a HUGE difference. Most DJ websites do not even offer MC services and the ones that DO, charge more to MC a wedding reception.
Really the only difference I can see comparing the two is DJ has more control over the show then the KJ does.
However both a KJ or a DJ can be an MC. MC is a whole different trade all together from both KJ and DJ.

masters of ceremonies
  1. A person who acts as host at a formal event, making the welcoming speech and introducing other speakers.
  2. A performer who conducts a program of varied entertainment by introducing other performers to the audience.
In a way a KJ is an MC all the time, a DJ is an MC only if the wedding couple wants them to do introductions or to even have them call out the dances or other events in the night. I have had the bride and groom do it at their weddings. So that took my MC jobs over and I did not have to do it. That is how they wanted to do their reception and they are paying me so I do what they want.

disc jockey
nouna person who announces and plays popular recorded music

Karaoke jockey or KJ

The KJ is a specialized disc jockey who plays and manages the music for a venue. The role of the KJ often includes announcing song titles and whose turn it is to sing.

So by definition a KJ is a form of DJ and neither a KJ nor DJ is an MC but both could do MC duties. Both KJ and DJ MUST be good with people and be people persons. Now what you are saying (and you must have met some horrible KJ's) is that what you have seen does not compare to a professional KJ/DJ. You I would say have seen KJ's that are in it for the money and do not care how well the people sound or the apperance of their system and must not run it professionally if you do not consider them to be professional. (I have seen these type of KJ's and I call them the trolls and they give a very bad reputation to professional KJ's)

I would consider myself a very professional KJ and/or DJ but the only difference in my shows is how they are run. karaoke I do karaoke and DJ I play music. That is the only difference between the two. (oh and one I wear a tux and the other I wear jeans and a nice button down shirt) I live in both worlds and even both at the same time.

However I see that this is a bit off topic now but maybe could make for a very good topic of its own to see what people think other then us lol?
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  #171  
Old February 25th, 2007, 11:06 AM
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I had the benefit of being a mobile DJ before mobile DJs were the accepted norm at weddings and formal affairs. Back in the late 1970s, bands still dominated the wedding circuit. I lived in Northwestern Vermont at the time and there were only three professional DJ systems in existence in the state and ours was one of them. I've seen the industry change and I've seen what it takes to be a good DJ. But let's define what kind of DJ we're discussing.

Club jocks are different than Rap DJs, but they're closer cousins than other types of DJs. In a club, the focus is on mixing, scratching and maintaining a beat that keeps the crowd moving. Rap jocks are proficient in mixing, overdubbing and scratching to enhance the song. Both are different from radio DJs whose whole focus is to project their personality over the airwaves. Radio DJs are different than mobile DJs because they don't have that immediate, live feedback from an audience for whom they must adjust their playlist. But radio jocks make a better fit into the mobile world because they're used to filling in dead air with banter.

I mention this because it goes to the reason why bar owners consider DJs more valuable than KJs. First you have to understand the fact that perception is reality to the vast majority of people. It rarely matters what the facts are, if people perceive things to be a certain way, it is very hard to convince them otherwise.

There is a perception that DJs are more highly skilled and have a semi-celebrity status, partially because of the radio DJs and partially because of the wedding circuit. Radio DJs have an on-air presence that gives them that sort-of celebrity status. Who hasn't tugged on the sleeve of a friend and said, "Hey that's so-and-so from WXYZ radio!" when they've seen a radio DJ in person. This increases their value to a bar owner. The other perception is that of the wedding DJ. Wedding DJs pull in good money for each gig. The perception is then that they are worth that much, even in a smaller, weekly venue. So when a bar owner hires a DJ for $400 for the night, he feels like he's getting a deal.

We all know that the general perception of Karaoke is that it is third rate entertainment. Any time you make people who are not professionals the center of the show, you will foster a perception that your show isn't professional. It takes a great deal of work to change that image, but it can be done. We've done it here at our shows. But it takes a lot of work and most KJs simply don't care. They're making their money and they're done. So Karaoke across the globe is not considered to be a professional form of entertainment.

Again, this is the perception. We as professional KJs, struggling to make our shows real entertainment venues, know that reality is a far cry from the perception.

kilith is spot-on when he talks about DJs not necessarily being MCs and that KJs do way more work than DJs. I've been doing DJ/KJ/MC work since the late 70s and I can personally attest to the fact that KJ work is the most difficult and requires the most dedication, commitment and perseverance. If you're running your shows right, you don't stop moving, listening, adjusting, monitoring, loading, announcing, bantering, schmoozing or watching from the time you start 'til the time you end. There are no breaks. It's four straight hours of constant action and being in what I like to call "Go-Mode".

When I do a wedding now, it feels like I'm cheating. I do 1/8 of the work and get paid 3 times as much - at a minimum. So, just to make myself feel better, I sing half the songs to which people are dancing. It makes me feel like I'm earning my money and 1/2 the people don't even notice, so they keep right on dancing. The half that does notice, usually ask for my business card and visit my tip jar. The point is, DJ work is so boring compared to KJ work, I charge astonomical rates to dissuade people from hiring me. Last year I increased my DJ rates to $300/hr for me personally and $200/hr for any of my guys. That wasn't good enough to stop 'em, so I began charging $400/hr for me personally and I already have 6 gigs lined up this year. It's ridiculous!

The bottom line is, if KJs could change the public perception of Karaoke, then we could earn the same rates that DJs make across the board. Unfortunately, because of the cut-rate Karaoke that's probably always going to be available, and the easy access to it in bars and nightclubs, I don't see the situation changing.

If fact, what I've seen is a shift from people having their wedding receptions in a reception hall, to wedding couples scheduling their wedding receptions at the nightclubs in which we play so they get free entertainment. Granted, they're bringing their private function into a public forum, but the bar owners love it because it's that much more revenue and the wedding party doesn't care, because, as you know, when any large group comes into the shows, they pretty much take over the room anyway.

I get very cross when this happens and I usually make sure the wedding people understand that they will get no special treatment. They are at the mercy of the rotation regardless of how many of them there are. I make it clear that if they want special treatment, they should have paid me to do a private party for them. As such, I make them understand that their wedding is now over and they are at my show, not their reception. The bar customers are every bit as important and will be given as much respect as the bride and groom.

Invariably, someone from the wedding party try to make it all about the wedding couple, but I just don't play that game. They might get upset a the moment, but upon reflection, most people realize that they are really trying to get something for nothing and that dog don't hunt with me.

The biproduct of this is that the "regulars" appreciate us that much more.

Anyway, I'm getting long winded again. Sorry.

- Alan Ross
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  #172  
Old February 25th, 2007, 02:52 PM
SteveWalker SteveWalker is offline
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The KJ is a specialized disc jockey who plays and manages the music for a venue. The role of the KJ often includes announcing song titles and whose turn it is to sing.
I agree that a KJ is a specialized DJ. To me specialized means the KJ is not a fully trained professional DJ. I'm very sure you are exceptional in your role as both a KJ and DJ but unfortunately these types are few and far between.

However, we can agree to disagree at this point!
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Old February 25th, 2007, 03:36 PM
muzicman144 muzicman144 is offline
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rate of pay

With all due respects to any and all dj or kj. At what point does one become a "fully trained professionial dj/kj", and who decides it. One could do dj/kj work full time for ten years and not be considered one of the "best" or "professional". Another can start and immediately have abilty to be considered one of the best or most professional. I beleive it is the intangible that can't really be described that draws the largest crowds and makes the kj or dj draw top money. Its the ability to say/do the right things at the right time that separates the "best or professional" from the rest. This can't be taught or "trained". It also sets the rate of pay.
Again, just my opinion

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Old February 25th, 2007, 03:37 PM
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I agree that a KJ is a specialized DJ. To me specialized means the KJ is not a fully trained professional DJ. I'm very sure you are exceptional in your role as both a KJ and DJ but unfortunately these types are few and far between.

However, we can agree to disagree at this point!
Hey I am going to change this to a new thread peeps... it is too far away from the orginal topic.
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Old February 26th, 2007, 09:45 AM
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I think the top DJ's and top KJ's can provide the same quality of entertainment but they are at the top of the pyrimid. In general the public expects DJ's to entertain at a much higher level and quality compared to KJ's. A professional DJ makes much more money and would not switch over to be a full time KJ. This is just my unbiased opinion as I'm am not a DJ. I am musician and professional singer.
Boy do we all get weary of hearing, "I'm a professional singer". If one in five 'professional singers' can sing the karaoke version, I'm surprised. Almost every night I have at least one 'professional singer' who also is 'in a band', so they are so snobbish they don't like any version of a song. Invariably, they will say, "it's too fast', or "too slow". "That's not the way my band plays it, so it must be wrong".

The people come to my shows to sing, not listen to records. They can do that at home. Most of them don't even like live bands, since they can't participate.

Lord save me from the so-called "professional singers and musicians" of the world.
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Old February 26th, 2007, 10:22 AM
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horseshoe,
I agree with you. Most of the people who claim to be in a band are not nearly as good as the people who come out regularly to sing. I've only seen three people over the years that were truly "professional" vocalists and they were wonderful. No attitude, happy to be able to sing, were adept and professional enough to sing with unfamiliar arrangements. They were great and two of them come back at least once or twice a year to look us up.

The conversation about "professionals" in this context is more about the show hosts and their ability to put on a professional looking show, rather than their ability to sing. I apologize if I led the conversation away from that. The ascertion is that even in a depressed economic area, hosts have the potential to make better money if their shows are produced in a more professional manner.

Whether we need a new thread to discuss the manner in which we increase our rate of pay, I will leave to better brains than mine. I thought it was relevant, but perhaps a new thread would be more appropriate.
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Old February 26th, 2007, 10:55 AM
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Alan, first of all, I was delighted by your analysis, regardless of length, and your explanations of what you do different that seems to make your shows different.

I have been doing many of those very things you suggest, which does amount to more than just "John, good job, Jane, you're up next." In fact I got a chance to visit another show last month, and I could've sworn the host must have said that, and only that, about 45 times.

I tend to use that short time between singers to interact with the crowd, either by praise (but not the same ole "good job, Pete"), or something special about how that person did something, or anything else that is complimentary, or sometimes joke with the crowd in general. When not adding in too much, I play background fanfare for the next singer as well. I always mention other shows in town, and encourage ppl to visit them and to let me know if there is something that I can do to improve mine. That gives them some form of ownership, they can associate with, and they usually end up saying '"Nothing you can do, you are the best".

Many usually leave and say, "Wow, this is not the typical karaoke show we usually get around here, and I've been to all of them."

Alan, again, thank you for your advice on professionalism, it was read twice, if not three times.
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Old February 26th, 2007, 11:26 AM
SteveWalker SteveWalker is offline
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Thanks for reminding me that this is thread about how much a KJ gets paid so we did get off track defining what a KJ, DJ and MC is.

So back to the topic of this thread please!
In Clearwater I know that KJ's made $250 for a four hour show in 1988 and today KJ's average $125 for a four 4 hour show. The average KJ could make much more money if they were more professional.
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Old February 26th, 2007, 12:13 PM
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But then again, those who are not, accept the fact, lower the rate, get gigs, and then the avreage rate is lowered,
sort of supply and demand, especially if the bar owner is not concerned about a certain level of professionalism, just the amount of dollars that go over the counter.

In a "regulated" profession (notice I changed my choice of wording here), this would be against the law. But by nature, the kj/dj "profession", is not regulated in any manner, thereby exposing the "profession" to legal quacks.
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Old February 26th, 2007, 12:21 PM
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Alan, again, thank you for your advice on professionalism, it was read twice, if not three times.
I'm happy to share whatever I can with anybody who cares, if it helps increase the validity of Karaoke as a valuable commodity for bar owners.

As always, the devil is in the details - it's those little touches that will always set you apart from the rest of the crowd.
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