KIAA Membership

[RandyMcCharles]

The thing about WMV and MP4 is that they are intended for home use. And individuals cannot buy a song to take to a pub to sing. I don't beleive their condition of sale includes KJs playing the video karaoke as part of their song book. For this reason I have not bought and have no intention to buy any video karaoke. It is lost sales as far as I'm concerned.

[billyo]

this is what i learned and i have posted this in another thread, i learned that , it is legal to play an original cd that you paid for in any places, you can do whatever you want to do with it, you can use it as a coaster if you want, for every cd that you buy, a portion of that money goes to the artist, producers or to anyone that help made that cd, producers and artist wanted you to go out there and play that cd in public so people can hear it and maybe they'll like it and buy it..

[RandyMcCharles]

But what about songs that you buy that are downloaded and then burned to CDG? I have examined the FAQs and emailed questions to all of the producers that offer downloads and have only seen vague and unclear responses that can be interpreted as anything from "you can only use the original download at home" to "you can convert to another media, such as CDG, but can only use it at home" to you can convert to CDG and use in public" (though I don't know any KJs who would play a homemcade CDG even if you have a receipt for the download). I did not ask or see any info about KJs purchasing and adding downloads to their play book as I am not a KJ. Karaoke downloads are a booming business in the UK and Canada. Chartbuster now has CDG downloads as well (in Beta).

Because of the lack of clarity, I (as a singer) have not purchased any downloads, but the market is certainly moving in this direction.

[billyo]

i don't download karaoke tunes, so i can't answer that question, but i do download my dj tunes from itunes, 6000 tunes to date,and paid .99 for the earlier tunes and $1.25 for the latest and i do use it in public

[Musicman51]

(though I don't know any KJs who would play a homemcade CDG even if you have a receipt for the download).

I know many many who do. That is the whole idea of a pay to use karaoke download site. And if the site is sat up correctly, the quality is every bit as good as a store purchased pressed CDG....every bit as good. Most of the download sites that i have read about on various karaoke forums, have a "Digital Locker" if you will. Where the CDG's that you have purchased from that site are stored for you if you need to download them again for some reason. That is your proof of purchase. Remember, if you purchase something that is sold online for a specific purpose. And that site says it paid all royalties, and rights for your use. You may under the law...{and i hate this word} assume, they are legal. You must have crimminal intent of fraud or illegal use, for you to be held liable. If you paid for instance .99 for an older DKK download of a frank sinatra "My Way" track. You are free as a bird to use it at any karaoke show you are running, providing.....that site says they are legal. How would you know any different..intent is the key word here...stop worrying about it, and enjoy singing your songs in canada...

[RandyMcCharles]

I would be that confident if the maufacturers were more clear about it. Same with the KJs here in Calgary who won't take the 'risk' of playing singers downloaded songs. I find it very amusing that KIAA continues to claim that there is no legal download site even though Chartbuster (a founding member) now has one. I took a quick peek around Chartbuster and could no longer find their KIAA logo. And the KIAA website continues to not list members or 'approved' karaoke sources.

[Musicman51]

Yeah Randy those henchmen at the KIAA have just about ruined any hope for a decent legal download site. They have all the working paying legal kj's running for cover. I know many on this forum alone wouldn't even give them or sound choice the time of day now, moreless dare purchase a sound choice disc. And look..i don't blame this all on sound choice either. They made a decent disc, just poor management decisions, and possibly...possibly greed. So i would say, personally..now this is just my own opinion. From the emails i've gotten from around the country from working kj's & entertainers. Sound choice is just too hot to touch right now. I wouldn't purchase a sound choice disc if it was pressed in gold...like i said. From the emails i have recieved from my kj friends and entertainers who use backing tracks in their single club acts, they won't touch a download site or sound choice. They pretty much have had it with both the KIAA henchmen, threats of legal suits, forced organization fees, forced search's..i mean come'on. There are just too many other ways to go...again, good luck up there in canada. Here on the lake michigan shoreline, in the absolute middle of nowhere...it's 11 degrees, and -3 below wind chill..schools closed the whole bit. I most generally git my mail by 10 AM...it's 2:16PM now, and the neighbors are calling to see if the mailman has been through yet...burrrrrrrrrrrr

[RandyMcCharles]

Yeah. I don't envy the KJs in Arizona and other parts of the US where they are being persecuted. I know here in Canada everyone is just keeping a low profile. As I said, the KJs here won't touch downloads because they don't want to get involved in the dispute. Anyone I know who does buy downloads uses them at home. Period.
Canada was and still is to some extent a battlefield for regular music downloads. Bringing music CDs through customs is even iffy as customs may sit on them for months and then demand a long list of fees that exceed the cost of the disks just to make sure that anyone who possibly may have missed being paid gets paid again. Much worse for karaoke CDs ans they usually don't know what to do with them.
If I were to buy downloads, the disk I would burn them on would pay artist fees again. Canada assumes that when you buy a blank CD that you will burn illegal music on them, so they include licensings fees for the presumed music in the cost of the CD. Those fees then get divided among all artists and manufacturs. The fact that they don't know who to pay for a given illegal song doens't matter as most purchased CDs are not used for illegal music. They collect and distribute at least 1000% of additional license fees.

[Musicman51]

I was going to mention. That i have a few active musician friends that still live in nashville TN. Some like myself do karaoke on the side mostly for something to do. I also played on the road many years, and i have backed a few nashville stars years ago. Grandpa Jones, and Jan Howard just being a couple of them. Anyway...they told me that during DJ convention in nashville, these KIAA clowns were down there snooping around during DJ Convention in nashville. I know for a fact the Oakridge Boys use Chartbuster CDG's during some of their club dates. Anyway...wrong thing for these dudes to be doing. Pushing around a local kj is one thing, go sticking their nose down there..they are lible to git spanked real good.

[RandyMcCharles]

Oh, man. Nashville is a force to be reckoned with. I think now I am just watching the clock for KIAA to make a big misstep.

[billyo]

talking about downloaded songs, i did a show last. Sat. and there was an this lady that came up to me and asked me if i could play her cdg's i asked her if it was the original disc, or if it was copied , she said it was a dowloaded disc that a friend made for her, when i said i couldn't she flatly told me that i was rude, and she walked out, so i asked the owner who let her in, i was told that she came in with someone earlier to have dinner and was asking for me and the owner thought that she was one of my regulars.

[RandyMcCharles]

"a dowloaded disc that a friend made for her" = it is an illegal copy. Some people have no clue. This is why local KJ's here won't play disks not made by the manufacturer. Even if you have a receipt it could be a copy of a receipt.

[Musicman51]

Billy & Randy, let me first say, i completely understand your concerns ok? Everyone wants to make sure they stay open and above board, and do the right thing, legally and morally. And far be it from me to give advice about how to run someones show ok? With me so far?...if not read that line again..please. Now...i take a little bit different spin on it i guess. First of all, if that happened to me, not you, but it happened to me..ok? i want to be careful here. And it has happened to me. ok? Still with me here? Now...for me and only me. It's actually none of my business to ask where a singer got their disc. Remember..the law allows for you to make 1 backup copy of 1 legally purchased original...are we still together? i want to be so very careful in my reply here. So, as long as i don't stop hoster temporarily...copy her disc, turn hoster show back on, keep my copy of her CDG and use it illegally myself. I must assume and under the law i can. That she made a legal back up copy from her own legally purchased original. Still with me here guys? So as far as the law is concerned, you are not breaking the law by simply playing her disc, how in the world under what {theory} of law would you think you are committing an injustice? aiding and abeding in the illegal performace of an unlawfully copied disc? That would sure be a long shot..... Frankly i don't have time even during my meeger show singer rotation to ask every singer who brings in their own disc where they got it..like i said..actually none of my business. But if play others disc, i must play all singers disc. Several of my original CDG's are no longer available, some at any price. I keep them safe under lock and key. So i simply make my 1 backup copy of my legally purchased original CDG. Explain to me please, under your theory of not playing a customers own backup disc, you are breaking a law? Just curious.

[RandyMcCharles]

I hear you, musicman.

I think you make an excellent case. I also agree with you. The KJ's around here may also agree with you, but they also don't want to take the risk that they may be wrong. It is no skin off their nose to say they will only play original CDGs. They have implemented policies that are far more off-putting to customers than that one.

The sad thing is that you can be absolutely right, but someone will prosecute you anyway. Then you waste a lot of time and money in court to prove you are right. And sometimes, the courts make bad verdicts. So why take the risk?

On the other hand I asked a KJ in Mexico if next year I could bring down some favorite tunes copied to CDG from my collection as I don't want to risk damage to orginal disks and he has no problem. The reason being that in Mexico there is no risk of frivolous prosecution.

What a world we live in.

[billyo]

i know what you're saying, my reason for asking was, i had problems with downloaded disc, i have tried it before , before this legal or illegal disc came up, i used to play in a bar and someone gave me a dowloaded / copied disc to import as a singers disc, and it didnt do nothing, all i got was a little avatar, (you know those little disc showing when you insert a disc to the drive ) and disrupts my show.i used to never have problems importing original disc, ( only if disc is dirty or scratched ) and since we are now on 4.11 everytime i import a singers disc tthe song playing stops for a sec. then it goes back on.if you noticed on my post i didnt asked her if the disc was legally downloaded/copied, all i asked was if it was original or a copied disc..she was the one who mentoned that it was a downloaded tunes. if it was an original i would import it, but at the very end of the song playing.

[ddouglass]

This one of the reasons I still have a player in my console. Keeps interuptions down to a minimum and there is no way it could be taken as a possible copying either.

[billyo]

i know what you're saying, but this is why i bought Hoster so i can avoid carrying extra gear, i don't have any problem importing singers disc whether it's a copy or downloaded, just as long it wont interupt the song playing, but righ now i am having that problem.

[muzicman144]

Just reading these threads makes me ask one question. Why are you worried???? If you are legal, do your show, let the eyes be what they are.
I have stated many times that 99% of all KJ's have at least one illegal file. I believe this to be true. I fully admit i have a few illegal files that i seldom use. do i delete? No, just do the same thing i have done for the last forty years. If the "police" come, so be it. At that point i will make every chance i have to make life miserable for them by posting on every .com i can find and take me chances in court. As presented so far, i don't think they can win. Alll I have is time, and, time is on my side!!!
Boycott Sound Choice
muzicman144

[billyo]

Rolling Stones did that song " time is on my side "..no i am not worried if it's me you're referring to,i work for the local gov't and i can't afford to have something illegal on my personnel file. i paid cash for everything i have,my dj gears, pc/laptops ( 7 ) etc. except the house and the vehicles and Hoster...

[Musicman51]

Why are you worried???? If you are legal, do your show, let the eyes be what they are.

Walt, that is the message i am trying so desperately, and yet delicately to put across, in my post here if you read what i've tried to convey. And trying hard not to look like someone who doesn't care about the law or these fella's concerns. I really really wouldn't lose any sleep over these jerks at the KIAA, sound choice, or even download sites for that matter. You know yourself if what you are doing is appropriate. If you feel comfortable in public with what you are doing, dandy. Like walt said, don't sweat these clowns.These hacks are after M*O*N*E*Y. Also to change the industry, under the pretence of accountability, but their way, on their terms. Not the right thing to do. They can bring all the lawsuits they wanna. It will only cause bad feelings and rejections on the part of the end users. They stand to lose more then they can possibly gain, if they won every single one of their lawsuits. So enjoy discussing it, it makes for a great read guys. And i am learning about the rules in canada thanks for the inside scoop on that randy. But seriously, i have no doubts, Randy, & Billy, you guys are straight shooters. So just enjoy this crazy (hobby) business we are in, and don't let those bullies bother you. They done cooked their own goose, and it's just a matter of time. Your Buddy..George