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[admin]

MCPS licensed songs (such as sold by Tricerasoft) are ILLEGAL to play at a show in the USA and Canada.

Playing a Sound Choice disc MAY be illegal, as they didn't pay the licenses for their music. Sony sued them for around $2 to $5 million and settled for $0.25 on the dollar. The other manufacturers who had been pay the full license (aka legal) were livid! To my knowledge, the settlement agreement included that SC would pay licenses in the future; i.e. this was converted from copyright law to CONTRACT LAW... which is very clear and specific. Again to my understanding, SC again didn't pay the royalties and Sony sued them for $19 million. I understand that was the straw that broke SC's back. To continue making money from the Karaoke market, their "business model" is now to sue anyone who plays a SC song, and then you must prove you are innocent... or pay them $4,000+ for their remaining library... regardless of how may discs you bought from them in good faith.


There is one way that is legal to get your Karaoke songs!

1. Buy a music song with vocals (Audio CD, MP3 from Amazon, Walmart, etc., or iTunes and convert their song with their player to MP3).

2. Use Vogone to remove the vocals. Yes, IF there is any reverb, it will remain, but usually it's less than 10% the amplitude of the vocals, so the audience won't hear it when someone is singing the song. The audience focuses on the Singer, not the reverb.

3. Use KHPro to add the lyrics in sync. First open the music with the vocals, tap in the lyrics in sync with the vocal, then replace the music with vocals for the vocal removed version and export your song. For a 3 mnute playing time song, it takes a few tens of seconds more to add the lyrics in sync to the vocals.

We have close to 7,000 KHPro users, and tons of Vogone users. Price is $59.99 for KHPro, and $59.99 for Vogone. For $119.98, you can make any song you can find the audio for... and it's legal. If you own the music with vocals, the songwriter has been paid their royalties.

We are upgrading Vogone and KHPro to make it even easier to buy the music (or open a HDD song file), remove the vocals and save the new song as KMA or MP3G with KMH header to index it in the Songs Database. We'll also be adding it to your Hoster Songs Database for you. How much easier can it get? Well.....

Next question...

[Lonman]

Originally Posted by admin

Next question...

So if ANY MCPS track is not legal for use in the US, this would include not only downloaded/custom tracks (selectatrack/karaoke-version/tricerasoft) but even the original manu discs (ie from Sunfly, Zoom, or any of the overseas manus, which SC are/were licensed overseas as well as of their last few years & the GEM series, etc.) I am assuming as well. Which I guess I would have to wonder, where would the jurisdiction lie as far as enforcement - RIAA, ASCAP or the likes? I'm sure the manus wouldn't be involved especially if you bought the tracks directly from them or their affiliates? I buy a good majority of my customs via Selectatrack, and have many Zoom & Sunfly products from over the years.

Most of the problems concerning many of the manus weren't so much the music licensing but the 'sync' licensing and permission to reproduce the lyrics either in print or on screen. My question is how would it be legal to make your own graphics without obtaining proper sync rights to use in a commercial venue/show?

[admin]

Originally Posted by admin

MCPS licensed songs (such as sold by Tricerasoft) are ILLEGAL to play at a show in the USA and Canada.

We have a copy of the MCPS license. It's hiding after our move last March, but we'll find it soon. I remember a Paragraph in this "Legal Agreement" that specifically stated to the effect that "any MCPS licensed song cannot be played in the USA, and (I think) Canada".

Originally Posted by Lonman

So if ANY MCPS track is not legal for use in the US, this would include not only downloaded/custom tracks (selectatrack/karaoke-version/tricerasoft) but even the original manu discs (ie from Sunfly, Zoom, or any of the overseas manus, which SC are/were licensed overseas as well as of their last few years & the GEM series, etc.) I am assuming as well. Which I guess I would have to wonder, where would the jurisdiction lie as far as enforcement - RIAA, ASCAP or the likes? I'm sure the manus wouldn't be involved especially if you bought the tracks directly from them or their affiliates? I buy a good majority of my customs via Selectatrack, and have many Zoom & Sunfly products from over the years.

Most of the problems concerning many of the manus weren't so much the music licensing but the 'sync' licensing and permission to reproduce the lyrics either in print or on screen. My question is how would it be legal to make your own graphics without obtaining proper sync rights to use in a commercial venue/show?

Who is policing MCPS violations? No idea... don't care either. I just know what their Legal Agreement requires of ALL licensees who sign. Suffice it to say, they have the legal right to enforce violations. It appears that every dollar you pay for MCPS licensed songs is in jeopardy. Once I find their agreement, I'll quote the exact Paragraph so you will know for sure.

As to Tricerasoft, I have watched them since their inception as "Tyrannosoft" that they were legally forced to change their name for infringement. They have copied MTU products from their start, and finally renamed their "Hoster work-alike" to... "Video Hoster". FACT: We took legal actions against them in the USA and Canada and won. See our HOSTER Registrations and published successful defenses of our Mark.

I have learned many things in my 41.9 years in business. One in particular is that "if you do anything illegal, one day it will be revealed."

It is a known fact that MTU has fought against Sound Choice and other Producers who tried to intimidate the world into believing among several "myths", that media shifting songs from a CDG disc into a computer compressed file is illegal. That is incorrect based on IPJustice.org's search of WestLaw and NexusLexus legal databases. There are court cases to substantiate their reported findings on their website.

Read Sound Choice's retraction letter.

MTU will continue to bring LEGAL fun to this industry.

[Lonman]

Originally Posted by admin

We have a copy of the MCPS license. It's hiding after our move last March, but we'll find it soon. I remember a Paragraph in this "Legal Agreement" that specifically stated to the effect that "any MCPS licensed song cannot be played in the USA, and (I think) Canada".


Who is policing MCPS violations? No idea... don't care either. I just know what their Legal Agreement requires of ALL licensees who sign. Suffice it to say, they have the legal right to enforce violations. It appears that every dollar you pay for MCPS licensed songs is in jeopardy. Once I find their agreement, I'll quote the exact Paragraph so you will know for sure.

I think you are thinking of paragraphs 1.40 outlining where, and connecting to 3.16 of the licensing agreement.
http://www.prsformusic.com/SiteColle...%2007%2010.pdf

[Musicman51]

Admin, you are 100% correct. And i do use vogone, and khpro to write many custom disc, over 500 to date.

I can tell you, that when i switched over to CDG's from laser, and cassettes. I spent over $2,300 at sound choice, over the phone, in about 15 minutes. The sleps even sent me a free gift pack, with cold cup holders, a sound choice ball cap, and a coffee mug out of appreciation. Now, those same people, are as much as calling me a crook, because i have a computer based karaoke show. Kinda puts a bad taste in my mouth.

Up around these parts, there are 5 of us KJ/DJ who cover a 40 mile area. If you want karaoke, or a DJ, you deal with us. And NONE of us use a sound choice product. One of us is still disc based, and she will not out of respect for the rest of us, use a sound choice product. Now..... not only us KJ's. But we have made darn sure, this applies to our customers as well. All of us, have a section of our song book, that deals with the antics of sound choice, and that fly by night karaoke police outfit, the KIAA or whatever it's called. We have asked our singers, NOT to bring us up a sound choice disc from home for us to load and play. MANY... of our singers do karaoke at home. We explained to them about sound choice, and printed out from the web, and given them a copy of a you tube video of how they (Sound Choice) accused a disc based kj of having a computer show. And they to, will not purchase a sound choice product online.

I don't need to do this (karaoke) for a living, thank god. But out of respect for those honest kj's who do. We stand united! I have all but stopped purchasing any new CDG's from anyone. I will use mtu products, and build my own. They are better, and tapped in time with the music. I will put my custom built CDG's against any commercial products any day of the week.

[admin]

Originally Posted by Musicman51

Admin, you are 100% correct. And i do use vogone, and khpro to write many custom disc, over 500 to date.

I don't need to do this (karaoke) for a living, thank god. But out of respect for those honest kj's who do. We stand united! I have all but stopped purchasing any new CDG's from anyone. I will use mtu products, and build my own. They are better, and tapped in time with the music. I will put my custom built CDG's against any commercial products any day of the week.

Musicman51, whatever you do, DO NOT delete those KHPro .KPR project files. You will want to use them in a different way soon.

[djbikeerrob]

I have been using those services as well. But i have to say that in my area I seem to be the only legit host. I walked into a karaoke lounge the other day after my own early show had ended and the host was actualy streaming? stealing a song off of Kara Fun's website I watched and she did it all night long. This was a Karaoke lounge. Talk about piracy. In my area the biggest company / host is also a pirate. He pays his help 50 bucks a night and it is all pirated music and he has a lock on most places in town because yep he is the cheapest one going. No one is doing a damned thing about it. And yes I have reported it several times no one I write to even acknowledges my emails much less does anything about it. It is like shoveling *&^% against the tide.

[Rockrz]

Originally Posted by Musicman51

They walk into your show, you are using a computer and hosting software

I heard as long as you have the originals, can proof you purchased them, and you only have them loaded on to one hard drive... you are legit.

Is this still true, or do they still try to sue you?

[djbikeerrob]

as far as i know yes that is still true but i have herd rumors that some folks still are getting sued. but as long as you do what you said they will not win.

[Lonman]

Originally Posted by Rockrz

I heard as long as you have the originals, can proof you purchased them, and you only have them loaded on to one hard drive... you are legit.

Is this still true, or do they still try to sue you?

You will need to go through and pay for an audit if you are using Sound Choice - and possibly Chartbuster/Digitrax. These are the only two companies at this time doing anything.

[djbikeerrob]

PAY for an audit? how can they want you to pay for something they are unjustly accusing you of? If it is unjust that is? doesn't seem right. innocence should not have to be paid for by the accused.

[RIKKI TIKKI]

Originally Posted by djbikeerrob

PAY for an audit? how can they want you to pay for something they are unjustly accusing you of? If it is unjust that is? doesn't seem right. innocence should not have to be paid for by the accused.

Go to the Legal Forum on Karaoke Scene Magazine... You Can Gain Some Insight... And Read For Hours... Your Mileage May Vary!

[Rockrz]

Originally Posted by djbikeerrob

PAY for an audit? how can they want you to pay for something they are unjustly accusing you of? If it is unjust that is? doesn't seem right. innocence should not have to be paid for by the accused.

I think I'd tell them to go get a court order... because that opens the door for a counter suit when they find I've purchased all my own stuff, have the originals with receipts.

Then, you could sue for false prosecution because they would be using the court system to falsely accuse someone... which means you would be able to win a lawsuit for substantial damages.

Surely they get some evidence of wrong doing before trying to audit someone, right? Even the IRS doesn't just audit without there being some evidence of something not being right.

That'd be a good question... has anyone been accused by a manufacturer of wrong doing, taken to court and lost, and then got counter sued for damages?

[Lonman]

Originally Posted by djbikeerrob

PAY for an audit? how can they want you to pay for something they are unjustly accusing you of? If it is unjust that is? doesn't seem right. innocence should not have to be paid for by the accused.

The only accusation is making an unauthorized copy to your hard drive which each discs state no unauthorized copies. If you use SC the choice is pay for authorization through an audit or wait until they sue you for making an unauthorized media shift & pay a lot more for the audit and court fees. Or no audit using original discs or no audit using no SC material.

[Lonman]

Originally Posted by Rockrz

I think I'd tell them to go get a court order... because that opens the door for a counter suit when they find I've purchased all my own stuff, have the originals with receipts.

Then, you could sue for false prosecution because they would be using the court system to falsely accuse someone... which means you would be able to win a lawsuit for substantial damages.

Surely they get some evidence of wrong doing before trying to audit someone, right? Even the IRS doesn't just audit without there being some evidence of something not being right.

That'd be a good question... has anyone been accused by a manufacturer of wrong doing, taken to court and lost, and then got counter sued for damages?

Yeah, many have thought that way as well that have ended up paying quite a bit and some getting their stuff confiscated BY a court ordered judgement against them.
Yes they do investigations, but unless you are using original discs, they cannot tell if your hard drive has actual stuff you shifted or bought off ebay - no way to tell and since SC was never sold on computer format (the GEM series is, but it's different colors than the regular discs), the only way they can distinguish is with an audit. Submitted by the kj or through the courts.
Haven't heard of any kj fighting it and winning to date.

[Rockrz]

So, if I buy a from a dealer on eBay... that doesn't count as being a legitimate purchase?

And, MTU says it's legal to put your VD+Gs on your hard drive... are they incorrect?

[Rockrz]

Originally Posted by djbikeerrob

I have reported it several times no one I write to even acknowledges my emails much less does anything about it

I found out very early in life that if one is gonna be a nark... one must live their lives es in perfection cause someone will come along and nark on me for something I'm doing wrong, just like I was willing to do to the other guy.

I always had mixed feelings about being a nark... it's have to be something seriously against the law like murder er something before I'd be a nark.

I know that may tick some folks off, but what we sow is what we reap.
No way around that, so what we do to others is what is going to come back to us.

I figure on this karaoke stuff, if a guy is cheatin... it'll catch up to him since the publishers do stand a chance to at least get assets from the venue.

[Lonman]

Originally Posted by Rockrz

So, if I buy a from a dealer on eBay... that doesn't count as being a legitimate purchase?

As long as it's an original disc and not a counterfeit - it's a legitimate purchase. You can even buy a used original from someone and it will be just as legit. This isn't about buying discs, it's about how you ultimately use them. Play them straight from disc, no audit, no lawsuits. Shift them to computer, you run the risk of both. Cheaper if you go to them first, more expensive if you get named in a suit.

And, MTU says it's legal to put your CD+Gs on your hard drive... are they incorrect?

I'm not arguing with MTU's findings, just going by 1 manufacturer that IS actively suing and are winning in most of their suits for unauthorized copies of their product shifted from original disc to computer. Many of the other manus don't seem to mind at this time.

[Rockrz]

just going by 1 manufacturer that IS actively suing and is winning in most of their suits for unauthorized copies of their product shifted from original disc to computer

Well, if there is actual cases where the courts are ruling that you cannot convert your CD+Gs over to a hard drive... then that means you cannot legally do that.

I wonder if any music publishers are suing DJs for putting regular music on a hard drive and playing it in a public venue... cause if you can't do this with CD+Gs, then certainly you cannot do it with regular music.

[Rockrz]

Yeah, many have thought that way as well that have ended up paying quite a bit and some getting their stuff confiscated BY a court ordered judgement against them.
Yes they do investigations, but unless you are using original discs, they cannot tell if your hard drive has actual stuff you shifted or bought off ebay - no way to tell and since SC was never sold on computer format (the GEM series is, but it's different colors than the regular discs), the only way they can distinguish is with an audit. Submitted by the kj or through the courts.

Why pay for an audit if they are gonna say it's illegal to convert to a hard drive... sounds like the thing to do at that point is just quit... or start using the original discs

What do you do? Take all your originals and purchase receipts to each show in case the karaoke police show up?