Audible Pop When Changing Key Up

[bernie]

Using Keyrite 2.0.0.8 (had the problem with 1.x also) an annoying "pop" or "click" is added at the very beginning of any song with a raised key change.

Doing a subject search, I see that at least one other user has reported this problem (with version 1.x). If it weren't for his post I wouldn't have realized that the "pop" only occurs when selecting one of the "up" level changes. I thought the problem was random. But now that I have checked my songs, he is right... lowering the key does not produce a "pop", raising it always does.

Any solutions/suggestions?

Thank you in advance for your feedback.

bernie

[bernie]

I have installed Keyright on a second computer... and it produces the identical problem. How bizarre is that?

I've have read only one other post where someone complained of the audible pop at the beginning of a song which has had the key changed upwards, and I end up with the problem on two entirely different installations.

The two computers have very different CPU's (generations apart), hard drives, memory, video cards, etc. They are both, however, DELL computers and both came with the Creative SB Live! series soundcard.

A little more background. Although I am now running XP, the problem existed with 98SE. And, the problem also existed in the previous version of Keyright. For grins, I tried a different version of soundcard drivers on one of the pc's and it made no difference. Nor do any changes in dxdiag have any affect.

At this point the only thing common between the two installations appears to be the soundcard. For what it's worth, I believe the SB Live! cards that DELL installs are unique, i.e., not the same as retail version. I suspect that to be true because when I checked for updated drivers there was a warning that the drivers were *only* for card that came with the DELL.

The other individual that reported this audible pop problem may not see this update. I would love to know, however, if he by chance has a DELL also equipped with their version of SB Live! soundcard.

Short of replacing the soundcard, anyone have a comment or suggestion at this point? Thanks in advance for your feedback.

bernie

[MTUSUPPORT]

Is this Pop actually Written to the .cdg or .wav file? Do you only hear the pop under Keyrite, or can you try to listen to the file through another program, such as Microstudio for .cdg or Media Player for .wav. Does the pop occur in these other programs?

[bernie]

In the case of a .cdg file, yes, the pop is indeed written to the new file. It is heard when played back in Microstudio. I've even had a karaoke host complain of the pop at the beginning of those tracks when I take one of my custom assembled discs to the bar.

I had not used Keyright on .wav files until you asked the question, so I just evaluated it. The pop does NOT occur with .wav files. I can raise the key and hear no pop in either Keyright or the saved new file when played in another application.

We've now narrowed down the conditions for the pop to occur to the following:

1) .cdg files only
2) Only if key is raised

bernie

[bernie]

It's not the sound card.

I removed the existing SoundBlaster Live! sound card and replaced it with an Audiotrak Maya44 MKII. The new card is about as different from the original as one could get (different drivers, different on-board clock speed, etc.).

Unfortunately, the card replacement had no affect on the audible pop. At least I know what isn't the root cause. The search continues.

bernie

[George]

Thought I'd try to help you guys out. Took a cdg track up three steps. Did the same with the same track on both pc's, and no audible click when playing back on either system.

I'll dink around some more and see if I can duplicate this anomaly.

George

Here's my system info for both boxes.

[George]

Here's another possibility we can eliminate.

I know when there's insufficient dead space at the end of a track it has cause problems with KHP(clipping of tracks), so wondering if KHP would have a conflict loading the title page, I tried clipping off all the dead space at the beginning of the same .wav file used in the cdg used in the prior post, and created a new cdg, took it up the same three steps in Keyrite. No luck...no pop.

Back to the drawing board.

George

[bernie]

Thanks George for trying to duplicate the problem.

By the way, I don't need to actually write the new file to hear the pop. It's there immediately if I initiate Preview Play when any upward key change is selected. The pop occurs when the graphics on the button change from "Preview Play" to "Stop Preview" (whether I've used the mouse or keyboard navigation to click the button).

Since there's no pop when I initiate Preview Play in either 0 or any downward key, I've tried to circumvent the pop by waiting until playback starts before selecting the desired upward key change. Doing that results in no pop being heard during Preview Play, but it is recorded to the new file.

George, on what may be totally unrelated, could you check the file size and/or playing time of the track you ran your test on (original vs. key changed)? In my case, a new track written by Keyright is slightly larger than the original. Not much, but I'd like to confirm this what everyone else experiences as well. For example, original track play time reported by MicroStudio is 04:15:30 whereas the new track created by Keyright is 04:15:37.

Thanks,

bernie

[George]

Bernie,

Did as you asked and here's what I got:

Before keying...3:30.69

After keying.....3:30.71

Doesn't make sense to me that a key change would alter the track length especially since if it were so, then what we're seeing is backwards. You would think the lower the key, the longer it would run if re-keying had any effect at all in track length.

Question, does the popping occur in commercial manufactured cdg's, KHP produced cdg's or both?

George

[bernie]

George,

Thanks for checking the length of the keyed tracks. I also noticed that it seems not to make a difference if a track is keyed up or keyed down, the new one written by Keyright ends up being ever so slightly longer. Doesn't appear to be important, just an interesting observation.

And thanks for asking about KHP produced tracks. I just evaluated a bunch of them and although they too produce the pop for an upward key change, the amplitude of the pop is *significantly* less than tracks imported from commercial discs. Now that is indeed interesting. I don't know what that means yet, but it's more data.

bernie

[George]

Bernie,
I agree about the change in track length not being that important, just strange.

I was hoping to narrow the search down further if the pop turned out not to be present in one or the other(commercial or KHP cdg's), but no such luck other than a difference in amplitude, which is rather interesting..

Guess there's not much I can contribute to this one since I can't create the popping, so I'll quit muddying up the waters unless I can come up with something meaningful.

Take care,
George

[jahern]

quote: Is this Pop actually Written to the .cdg or .wav file? Do you only hear the pop under Keyrite, or can you try to listen to the file through another program, such as Microstudio for .cdg or Media Player for .wav. Does the pop occur in these other programs?
__________________
Bryan, MTU


bernie: In the case of a .cdg file, yes, the pop is indeed written to the new file.

If you create a disc with the popping file, how does it sound when played in a non-microstudio player. I have had clicking, if not popping, noises before and they stop when played in another player

[bernie]

jahern,

You asked about a disc created from one of these files and whether the pop was heard on other players. Yes, the initial pop becomes part of the song which is heard regardless of how/where the disc is played. I've had karaoke hosts grimace when they play one of those tracks. Depending on where his gain settings were last set, the pop is loud enough to be unfavorably attention getting.

bernie