New place to gig on Thursday, but Sun/Tue. bar owner doesn't seem to like the idea.

[marklwood]

Joe is a pretty smart cookie here. I would go with the bud nippin' theory. You, as a red blooded American should be, are always looking for an opportunity to increase your revenue just like the bar owner. If he can find some way to make up that extra $$ by either making you an exclusive, or letting you do that other night for him instead, that should make you both happy. If not, is there some other parameter that is acceptable to him, but doesn't keep you from seeking additional income? If my DJ had come to me with a proposal like that, I probably would have given him that bump in pay to keep him away from my competition.

[billyo]

loyalty will only take you so far, if he thinks he's losing revenue by you doing other nights on diff. place, asked him to have you do other nights, fri-sat. would be the best nights in my opinion.and if he doesn't like it, then maybe you could asked the other guy to let you do sun/tue.

[Joe Nieves]

Yep, you don't give up the one in your hand for two in the bush., or in this case, two in the hand for one in the bush!!!!

Hmmm? am I making sense here....

Joe....

[Musicman51]

Far be it from me to give advice of this type. But i have been at my present club 6 years, and see no chance of leaving any time soon. With that being said, out of loyalty, i personally wouldn't dream of taking a job down the street. My off night or not. I know some guys are into this for the money and money only. But something i personally wouldn't do. I work yard parties, graduations, weddings, that type of thing on my off nights. But i'd never think of giving my own club competition. And that is actually what you're doing.

I bet it is spreading the profits of your regular bar a little thin. This apparently bothers your boss of 5 years. If thats the case, don't worry about who benefits, dump the second job, and show loyalty in return, to the guy who showed you loyalty for 5 years. Hip hop night or not. He is still running entertainment those nights. Lets hope he just doesn't decide to boost his hip hop night by cutting back on karaoke to do it. Good luck whatever you decide.

[billyo]

Originally Posted by Musicman51

Far be it from me to give advice of this type. But i have been at my present club 6 years, and see no chance of leaving any time soon. With that being said, out of loyalty, i personally wouldn't dream of taking a job down the street. My off night or not. I know some guys are into this for the money and money only. But something i personally wouldn't do. I work yard parties, graduations, weddings, that type of thing on my off nights. But i'd never think of giving my own club competition. And that is actually what you're doing.

I bet it is spreading the profits of your regular bar a little thin. This apparently bothers your boss of 5 years. If thats the case, don't worry about who benefits, dump the second job, and show loyalty in return, to the guy who showed you loyalty for 5 years. Hip hop night or not. He is still running entertainment those nights. Lets hope he just doesn't decide to boost his hip hop night by cutting back on karaoke to do it. Good luck whatever you decide.

this is just my opinion, about loyalty, its a 2 way, bryant in his case, he should be able to play anywhere in his days off, be it across the street or or half a mile away, if bar#1 wants him that bad and doesn't want him to play in bar#2, in my opinion if i were bar#1 i would either give him a boost on his pay and i'll add those 2 days at my bar.

[Joe Nieves]

You do have the right to make the extra money on your days off, but then their are consequences and conflict of interest involve here (Bar #2 being so close), so cash in your chips and strike the best deal with Bar #1.

Good Luck,
and may the karaoke gods be with you..

Joe.....

[Musicman51]

Exactly what Joe said..... I sure wish i had the command over the queens english like most of you have. That is exactly what i was trying to put across..thanks Joe.

[billyo]

Originally Posted by Joe Nieves

You do have the right to make the extra money on your days off, but then their are consequences and conflict of interest involve here (Bar #2 being so close), so cash in your chips and strike the best deal with Bar #1.

Good Luck,
and may the karaoke gods be with you..

Joe.....

this is just for the sake of conversation, my question is why would there be a conflict of interest? lets say i work for Ford. Co. assembly line installing break lines, and on my days off i work for GM doing the same thing, are you teling me that since i work for GM on my days off you'll cut my pay, if i were the Ford Co. i will ask you to work on your days off, same pay,no overtime pay,and i'll get more break work done..thats what i'm saying if bar#1 doesnt want Bryant to do those days in bar#2, Bryant should ask to have Thurs.added to his tue/sun gig.iIf Bryant is bringing in more people on tue/sun gig, then he might have the same people on thur. that means more revenue on those days.for bar #1

[Roy Dennis]

Some times I think you can over kill. Too much of the same entertainment night after night in the same bar. Or may just spread the same crowd over different nights. Not bring in more revenue over the week. So although Bryant would be getting an extra nights pay, the bar owner would be down.



Roy.

[bryant]

Originally Posted by billyo

this is just for the sake of conversation, my question is why would there be a conflict of interest? lets say i work for Ford. Co. assembly line installing break lines, and on my days off i work for GM doing the same thing, are you teling me that since i work for GM on my days off you'll cut my pay, if i were the Ford Co. i will ask you to work on your days off, same pay,no overtime pay,and i'll get more break work done..thats what i'm saying if bar#1 doesnt want Bryant to do those days in bar#2, Bryant should ask to have Thurs.added to his tue/sun gig.iIf Bryant is bringing in more people on tue/sun gig, then he might have the same people on thur. that means more revenue on those days.for bar #1

Yup, that's sort of like the way it is. The ppl I bring in on Sun/Tue are karaoke ppl only, which is the only place in town that offers anything on those nights to do. He is only concerned about those same ppl will have another place to spend their money doing the same thing on another night (even if the other night was at his place), so it spreads out the karaoke crowds money among three nights (instead of two). I'm trying to understand if his rationale makes a lot of sense, or just a little sense, or any at all. I had asked him last year about adding a third karaoke night on thurs. His response was "It might be too much of a good thing." Sort of saying it is just spreading out two nights over three.

[marklwood]

We have been through the worst economic times that I can remember. Every chance you have to keep ahead of the competition has become even more important. The bar owner that you are working for is painfully aware of the market in his area. I am sure that he is looking to both keeping a death grip on whatever market share he has, and looking at cutting expenses. This situation is making him look at both. If he sees that he is losing customers on his karaoke nights, he has to make a choice. Either increase business, or cut expenses. I think he is just hedging his bets by having an initial conversation. That is why I agreed with Joe on forcing the issue now. Waiting to see what happens to business is only a negative for you Bryant. If you can hammer out the outcome before he is able to get enough data to beat you with, it can only help your situation.

Be honest with him, and ask the same from him. It is not bad of you to be looking to increase your own income. He is always looking for the same. Just tell him that while you don't want to jeopardize the great long term relationship you have had with him, he can't blame you for looking at increasing your own business.

[muzicman144]

Been doing local shows in Florida for the last three years. There are approx 8 clubs in one area. I play at everyone. I have never had any club make this approach to me. I may play Tues at one, thurs at another, and so on. This has never been an issue. Fortunately, i do draw healthy crowds each time i play.
If I was approached as Bryan was, I would simply say, this is the price and we have been pretty successful at it, and i see no reason to change a thing.
It seems to me Bar #1 is beinga little selfish as he wants to protect his profits while attempting to control or deny Bryans freedom to make a little more money on a night he is not obligated to play Bar #1.
As for myself, i wouldn't change my price and i would continue to play at Bar # 2. Let's see where the loyalty of the 5 years of fringe benfits Bar #1 has enjoyed comes into play.
JMHO
muzicman144

[Roy Dennis]

Originally Posted by Musicman51

Far be it from me to give advice of this type. But i have been at my present club 6 years, and see no chance of leaving any time soon. With that being said, out of loyalty, i personally wouldn't dream of taking a job down the street. My off night or not. I know some guys are into this for the money and money only. But something i personally wouldn't do. I work yard parties, graduations, weddings, that type of thing on my off nights. But i'd never think of giving my own club competition. And that is actually what you're doing.

I bet it is spreading the profits of your regular bar a little thin. This apparently bothers your boss of 5 years. If thats the case, don't worry about who benefits, dump the second job, and show loyalty in return, to the guy who showed you loyalty for 5 years. Hip hop night or not. He is still running entertainment those nights. Lets hope he just doesn't decide to boost his hip hop night by cutting back on karaoke to do it. Good luck whatever you decide.

I agree with Musicman51, I think you are rather fortunate to have had a 2 nights a week for 5 years at the same establishment.
It is perfectly alright to work else ware but not if it is in direct competition with your regular gig.
Just my opinion.

Roy.

[bryant]

Originally Posted by Roy Dennis

I agree with Musicman51, I think you are rather fortunate to have had a 2 nights a week for 5 years at the same establishment.
It is perfectly alright to work else ware but not if it is in direct competition with your regular gig.
Just my opinion.

Roy.

But I've also had 4 nights a week at three different places for the same five years. All these places are aware of the others as well. Just adding a Thursday as part of my retirement income.

Your rationale, as I understand it, would mean that a DJ could, and would, only work at one place, i.e., all bars are competition for all other bars at some point.

Also, let's remember that bar #1 has several things going on at his place on Thurs. nights, upstairs band or DJ, musician during supper hours, hiphop DJ downstairs, and full resauraunt and two bars open till 1 am. I am not competing with THOSE customers at all. Again, as i've stated before, it's the thinning out of my regulars over three nights and him thinking that I will be worth less, even though it is well known to him, the bartenders, and ALL the patrons that go On Sun. and Tue. that I do WAY more than other KJ's in the area do, and I do WAY more there than I do at other places too, e.g., make sure all customers can sing any song they've ever requested, take pictures, show slide shows over three large screens, interact with them (many patrons often leave me "unsolicited" tips in my hand), dance music with videos all by request in between singers on slow nights (not many slow lately though).

[bryant]

Originally Posted by Musicman51

Far be it from me to give advice of this type. But i have been at my present club 6 years, and see no chance of leaving any time soon. With that being said, out of loyalty, i personally wouldn't dream of taking a job down the street. My off night or not. I know some guys are into this for the money and money only. But something i personally wouldn't do. I work yard parties, graduations, weddings, that type of thing on my off nights. But i'd never think of giving my own club competition. And that is actually what you're doing.

I bet it is spreading the profits of your regular bar a little thin. This apparently bothers your boss of 5 years. If thats the case, don't worry about who benefits, dump the second job, and show loyalty in return, to the guy who showed you loyalty for 5 years. Hip hop night or not. He is still running entertainment those nights. Lets hope he just doesn't decide to boost his hip hop night by cutting back on karaoke to do it. Good luck whatever you decide.

True, and nice comments here, Musicman. Although I also started two other bars in town 5 years ago, all with slightly different clientele though. I work regularly at three different places, all started about 5 years ago. As a result, I said I would retire from my full time job (good pay, with all free benefits, medical, dental, etc) if I could find a Thursday night stay. I had been off and on for a while at another place on Thursdays. Now this brand new bar just seems to be copying a lot of stuff from bar #1 and the owner seems concerned. let me say a bit more about these two places. bar #1 is also a 7 day/16 hr per day restauraunt with a bar upstairs and downstairs. Downstairs DJ on thurs./Fri./sat...Upstairs is full restauraunt and bar with musicians during the week and bands on Fri. and Sat. (On fri. he just started a cem free DJ upstairs, however). The owner owns the building and rents apartments above as well. He is completely established.


The new bar just opened up and is only a bar, no food, no TV yet above the bar, only dance floor and bar. Is only open from 9 to 1 on Thurs. fri. and sat., They rent the building, and have just remodeled that same building. The two owners are young and sort of new in the business. Their fridays are slow now, their thurs were even slower when they first started. Karaoke was an after thought as an idea to get something going on Thursday's a little better. the place has only been open since the first of the year.


Also, bar #1 owner doen't expect me to NOT work anywhere else, he had never said that. It's more of a copycat thing now with this new club that bugs him.

[ddouglass]

The only point I see not being brought up here is if you don't so it he (Bar #2) will get someone else. So Bar #1 will likely see some loss of business anyway especially if Bar #2 decides to compete on the same nights you do. We have this problem with a new bar down the street from the VFW we play at. I already told the other owner I wasn't interested....besides she couldn't afford me . I hate having to move my equipment.

[billyo]

Originally Posted by ddouglass

The only point I see not being brought up here is if you don't so it he (Bar #2) will get someone else. So Bar #1 will likely see some loss of business anyway especially if Bar #2 decides to compete on the same nights you do. We have this problem with a new bar down the street from the VFW we play at. I already told the other owner I wasn't interested....besides she couldn't afford me . I hate having to move my equipment.

i had the same experienced, i was offered a job the same nights i used to play at..there are 3 things i wouldn't do, i wont take a job if i'm doing one the same nights, no matter how much, i wont undercut nobody, especially if thats how they make their living, and i wont take a job if the mgmt. is not happy with the one playing there, especially if it's a kj friend. the only time i'll do karaoke is when i'm not doing any or places that wanted to start karaoke, the rest i always recommend other kj who does it for a living.

[marklwood]

Good point Dale. The other point I think Bryant eluded to was the feeling that the new bar wasn't in it for the long haul. It would be a good gesture to maybe cement your relationship with Bar #1, and get a little bump in pay while your at it.

[bryant]

Originally Posted by ddouglass

The only point I see not being brought up here is if you don't so it he (Bar #2) will get someone else. So Bar #1 will likely see some loss of business anyway especially if Bar #2 decides to compete on the same nights you do. We have this problem with a new bar down the street from the VFW we play at. I already told the other owner I wasn't interested....besides she couldn't afford me . I hate having to move my equipment.

Exactly how I seem to look at this, too, Dale.

Actually bar #2 had been looking at someone else a while back (before they opened). It was one of those guys using another program and an E-Bay bought HD w/75,000 songs he was bragging about. Once a regular of mine I spoke about in a previous forum, if any of you recall. I didn't want to see his butt anywhere in this area (he lives out of town as it is), so I actually approached bar #2 a while back on this gig, for that reason, thinking there was absolutely no harm to bar #1 on his already packed house hiphop Thursday downstairs.

[ddouglass]

If you know Bar #2 owner well enough I would show him the stuff on the lawsuits going on now with Sound Choice and point out that what that guy has is exactly what they are looking for in these lawsuits. Then if you know anyone else in the area who does shows (if you decide not to take the job) you could recommend them.
A thought just hit me. Even if Bar #1 decides he wants to lower your pay by adding an additional night at Bar #2 I figure you are still farther ahead then without it.
As far as being in it for the long haul, as long as Bar #2 can make enough to keep it going for a year or two, then it will probably be there for a while. As far as Bar #2 copying what Bar #1 is doing, I would do the same thing. Why at this early stage try something new if this already works in an established place. Common business practice.
AT least your Bar #2 had enough sense to have enough capital for entertainment. The lady running our #2 pout all her seed money into remodeling and had nothing left for entertainment to draw in the crowds. She had one KJ in for a while that all they were working for was tips and doing karaoke 2 nights a week. They quickly tired of that and quit.