KIAA Membership

[Musicman51]

I found this forum posting, from the anoited one Kurt Slep. Thought i'd pass it along. You make up your own mind.

　



Sound Choice

Member

Join Date: Sep 2009
Posts: 27
Thanks: 0
Thanked 93 Times in 23 Posts


If I had the time, I would try to answer everyone point by point, but let me say this: For those who are predominantly "legal" (i.e., they have an original legally purchased Sound Choice disc to support each and every copy that they have of a song file on a hard drive or CAVS system) we are not going to pursue a lawsuit against you if you have the discs BEFORE we investigate and file suit. We are not being hardnosed or unfair. If you are "legal", we recognize that there might be a disc or two missing over the years and you shouldn't have any concerns. Come on - I hope that no one really believes that we would waste our time pursuing someone in that situation!

Those that settle quickly are only being charged what would be a little over full retail for the library of discs that we ship you - although we could be much more punitive. You also have a permanent physical "record" (the CDG) in case the music publishers ever decide to come seeking retribution against the KJ community. (Remember the on-going RIAA lawsuits for huge amounts - and those settlements have been against HOME USERS, not even commercial users like KJ hosts). If we wanted to go to court, the MINIMUM we could ask for would be $200,000 and the maximum could be $4,000,000. So why would any KJ be so stupid/stubborn to want to go to court to learn they have no defense and pay tens of thousands more than it would take to get themselves legal?

Basically we want to be paid and WE SHOULD BE PAID for the music that many KJs have been using for years to earn a living or for pocket change or whatever. If you disagree with this statement, then you shouldn't mind if I come to your house and steal your car or something else you own. If you have a great many discs already, but maybe slid to the "dark side" in cloning a rig or "filling out" your library with stolen, traded songs, etc. we will take that into account. But whatever the amount is, just remember it is a "pittance" compared to what it could be. For those who are named in a suit and wait to respond until they are served (we try to give at least a 20 day response time via an advance letter after you have been named), their cost will go up because our costs to deal with the matter goes up. The smarter KJs (and yes, we are running across more and more of them) are buying a library of our discs BEFORE they even get investigated. And that's OK with us. They save money and we save a hassle. Sounds like a win-win.

For those who chose to buy before we "catch you" the library of discs on hand is being sold for about $0.75 per song. We are working on relicensing about 7500 songs in our catalog and releasing them in 320kbps MP3+G format, so that you don't even have to go to the trouble of format conversion. We still can't legally grant you the right to put them on a computer because our licenses do not specifically state we have that right. But since publishers know that our CDGs are being used in a commercial setting (and authorize them for that use), it is our opinion that as long as you have a 1:1 ratio of disc to song file, the US publishers aren't going to worry about the format shift problem. (In Australia and the UK they DO have a format shift license that allows this and it costs about $400 a year and covers your commercial music and karaoke discs).

As for suing venues, we are fully within our rights to do so if they continue to benefit from a host running an illegal system. It's called CONTRIBUTORY INFRINGEMENT. And we are pursuing this approach AT THE INSISTENCE of and for the benefit of many of our long time karaoke hosts who have bought our products and who have been put out of business or suffered financially from competition from thieves who have had the unfair advantage of not having any investment in their music. As more thieves lose their gigs because a bar doesn't want to be at risk and the bars hire legal KJs, those who are legal will thank Sound Choice and the KIAA more and more because they can get more gigs at a higher price. If you are a thief (we are going to move away from the glamorized term of "pirate") you will probably cuss Sound Choice and the KIAA more and more as you find your opportunities limited.

For those who are adamant that Sound Choice is the “bad guy” in the on-going scenario of lawsuits, I would be hard pressed to even understand your position if you think we are not entitled to being paid. You might not like our “collection methods”, but there is a perfectly legal solution if you are worried about a lawsuit and how you would defend or respond. Avoid the suit altogether - be PROACTIVE – BUY BEFORE YOU “FRY”. No one is stopping you from doing what you can and should legally have been doing all along – buying our products. We are even doing some limited financing and are trying to arrange credit sources prior to the launch of our new products. Stay tuned for all that.

Kurt Slep
CEO Sound Choice

PS. I won’t be monitoring the responses to my post here. I will be busy trying to get our new product out to market, so that we can have a better solution for our KJ customers.

[ddouglass]

My only comment is they are not doing any checking before filing and they do not let you buy the ones that you may have that are illegal but instead require that you buy there entire library which I have no need for at $6500.00. Additionally you have to sign a contract with them stating you are guilty. As Admin said this is a bad idea.
Additionally when they file against the establishments that these people are playing at those establishments and others who see this going on no longer want to have karaoke at all. So how is that helping us???? And what kind of settlement are they offering those establishments?

[billyo]

i think i understand their position, if you're a kj and have 5 people working for you in diff. venues, then in my opinion you should have, like they said you have to have all the orig. disc for every comp. that's being used in those venues, having a comp/laptop , copied disc /hhd for back-ups shouldnt be considered illegal., unless like i said it's being used to do another venue.

[Musicman51]

Billy, i completly agree with you, and it doesn't matter if it's 2, 3, 5, or if his is the only rig he has going. I actually can sympathise with Sound Choice with the pirating thing. But thats where my sympathy ends. In the entertainment business. And it is a business, whether you do it as a hobby part time like myself, or you're going 7 nights aweek. If you're a software manufacture, or a club, bar, disc manu, whatever. Perception, and the impression you make upon others, is 99.99999% of the game. If you run a great show, have first class gear, a library to die for. And you treat others with disrespect, and not give them a fair shake. You cut your own throat. This is exactly what Sound Choice has done here. I said it before, and i'll say it again. There is a right and a wrong way to go about doing things. The feeling of the majority of KJ's i've spoken with, say they are done with sound choice. And my two closest kj friends, run an all disc show. And they say they are also done with the slep castopo. The KIAA have the first 3 letters correct {KIA} Karaoke Industry Alliance of ....and i don't need to tell you what many in the karaoke community say that last {A} actually stands for.....

[RIKKI TIKKI]

IMHO Sound Choice is within their legal rights, to pursue the illegal bootleggers/pirates that have evaded paying for the rights to use the SC karaoke music... They obviously are testing the water, as how to go about it, and will ultimately ruffle a few feathers, using the legal system to corral the crooks, and allow the legitimate KJ's to do business as usual. If you are a working KJ like myself and most other KJ's that are reading, and following the test cases of Phoenix, Az. and now Virginia... then you are either worried, or not, if you are even slightly illegal, then you can still be prosecuted, so if it's a few Sound Choice, discs, or songs that you are worried about, please get them replaced with legit originals, or same songs produced by other manufacturers to fill out your libraries.

I have a preponderance of Sound Choice cdg's in my collection/library, and find them to be close to the top of the list of manufacturers when it comes to producing a very good rendition of the original artists that they try to emulate for the Karaoke officianados, whether you are KJ's that make a living using the cdg's, or background music, hobbyists, etc. The quality is there... they paid a lot of money for the licensing rights, and still more in the production costs, for studio time, musicians, duplicating and recording gear, etc.

When somebody bootleggs your rights to make a profit from your business endeavor by pirating your licensed property, and shares it illegally, or make copies and then in turn sells it for profit, you would not sit still and take it either... they are going to recoup some of their lost profits by legal action against those that are grossly infringing, or blatently portraying an illegitimate operation that is profiting from the fruits of their labor, and skirting the licensing rights that Sound Choice paid to use, and in turn, profit from...

Boycotting Sound Choice will only hurt those that are illegal, and worried! Their business (SC), will return when the playing field is leveled, and most of the pirating is eliminated, and the illegal downloaded files can be stopped, so that the company can profit from legal licensing of down loads, and we can move on to the next controversy... and how to improve Hoster, for the future of Karaoke!

[muzicman144]

Boycotting Sound Choice will only hurt those that are illegal, and worried! Their business (SC), will return when the playing field is leveled, and most of the pirating is eliminated, and the illegal downloaded files can be stopped, so that the company can profit from legal licensing of down loads, and we can move on to the next controversy... and how to improve Hoster, for the future of Karaoke!

Illegal has always been one step ahead of legal. I don't expect things to change in my lifetime
muzicman144

[Musicman51]

As i stated, preception is 99.99999% % of the game.

IMHO Sound Choice is within their legal rights, to pursue the illegal bootleggers/pirates that have evaded paying for the rights to use the SC karaoke music...

I have read every single posting on this forum on this matter, and i haven't read anything that says sound choice doesn't have a right to pursue their property. No disagreement there. Again..preception.

They obviously are testing the water, as how to go about it, and will ultimately ruffle a few feathers, using the legal system to corral the crooks, and allow the legitimate KJ's to do business as usual.

Simply not true. Many innocent individuals have been faulsly accused, a few have had their suits dropped. Not one, not one single apology to these individuals by the sleps. Right now, if i were in virginia, and i owned a bar, and a kj asked me to start up karaoke, what do you think i would say to him? Already there is a 20% drop in available karaoke night spots in virginia already. have legitimate kj's doing business as usual? where? Sir, you are naive.

If you are a working KJ like myself and most other KJ's that are reading, and following the test cases of Phoenix, Az. and now Virginia... then you are either worried, or not,

NOT....and heres a news flash for ya. Neither are the majority of crooks. Concerned? of course. Not about the legality issue. But of the manner sound choice is using, costing a loss of jobs, and ruining the reputation of legal kj's. Sound choice does not want a single case to go to trial. They are in this for the money, and they have demostrated, they don't care who gets injustly accused. It is cheaper for an accused legal kj to settle, then to pursue his innocents, and reputation. Sound choice is counting on this.

I have a preponderance of Sound Choice cdg's in my collection/library, {that statement makes no sense what soever}and find them to be close to the top of the list of manufacturers when it comes to producing a very good rendition of the original artists that they try to emulate for the Karaoke officianados, whether you are KJ's that make a living using the cdg's, or background music, hobbyists, etc. The quality is there... they paid a lot of money for the licensing rights, and still more in the production costs, for studio time, musicians, duplicating and recording gear, etc

I personally don't own that many sound choice disc. I will say they are actually no better then chartbuster, music maestro or pocket songs. They do the job. However, sound choice does not pay anymore for rights to a song, studio time, duplicating, recording gear, musicians then chartbuster, or any of the other top karaoke manus. And the other CDG manufactures have something sound choice no longer has now. Thats class, and respect of the karaoke community. This is of their own choosing...sadly

This is sounding more like a KIA {A} form letter the more i read it and reply to this.

When somebody bootleggs your rights to make a profit from your business endeavor by pirating your licensed property, and shares it illegally, or make copies and then in turn sells it for profit, you would not sit still and take it either...

No disagreement here...Show me a posting on this forum, where someone suggest sound choice sit still for this? please. It's not the pursuit the legit kj's object to..it's the method, and the damage caused by this method. The loss of clubs, the loss of reputation, the bad name this is giving the karaoke industry as a whole. I do this as a hobby. And i'll tell ya...the ripple effect is already starting where i'm at. I predect, clubs will be going to DJ's, single accoustic guitar acts, small combos' piano singalongs, comedy acts, pool tables, video games. And...we have the shoddy messy tactics of the sleps to blame.
Don't come crying to me rikkie.

they are going to recoup some of their lost profits by legal action against those that are grossly infringing, or blatently portraying an illegitimate operation that is profiting from the fruits of their labor, and skirting the licensing rights that Sound Choice paid to use, and in turn, profit from...

It's not legal action actually..it's the threat of a legal action. Big difference there. If you think for one minute sound choice is going recoup any substatial lost profits by taking a few kj's and bars to court, and making them settle for 6 grand, then you arenaive. Sound choice is trying to make examples of these poor slobs, and nothing more. And...don't be surprised, when someone holds sound choice to task, and wins... KJ's don't have deep pockets, but the bar owners do...and i can hardly wait. Sound choice stepped on the wrong toes there. The club owners hold the purse strings for the entire karaoke industry..hang on for the ride of your life.

Boycotting Sound Choice will only hurt those that are illegal, and worried! Their business (SC), will return when the playing field is leveled, and most of the pirating is eliminated, and the illegal downloaded files can be stopped, so that the company can profit from legal licensing of down loads, and we can move on to the next controversy... and how to improve Hoster, for the future of Karaoke!

Wrong, a boycott of sound choice will also hurt the retailers who legally sell sound choice disc, also any future legal download sites. Also legit kj's. I am a legal operating kj. If there were a boycot of sound choice. I would out of respect for my fellow kj's also not purchase or even play any sound choice disc. And if you think i'm a minority, again...you are naive. I also predict, because of the actions of sound choice, the KIA{A}, the slep costopo, that the download part of sound choice, although i wish their endevour a complete success. Will Ultimatly be unprofitable. Kj's..myself included, by all this confusion alone...will not feel safe downloading anything. Right now, i say over 80% of ALL kj's have absolutly no idea what is a legal download site, or if there actually are any. How the sleps will over come all this mass confusion they have started, is anyone's guess. But i betcha, it will show in profits. Perhaps the slep clan can take all the download sites out there to court to? think so? As i read the majority of forums, and have KJ & dj friends in many states, and hear even way up here. Sound choice is digging their own grave.
Again......remember that perception thing i mentioned earlier? Confusion, rumors, misinformation, threats of law suits, club owners dropping karaoke. It's happening as i type. yep..... {shakes his head and sighs}

[Musicman51]

pooo...i was going to bring up the sound choice eagles cdg that the sleps released without fully having the rights secured....oh well...yep that perception thing again...
P.S. I'm smiling as i'm typing....

[RIKKI TIKKI]

Originally Posted by Musicman51

As i stated, preception is 99.99999% % of the game.
George, you are correct in stating that everyone will have their own perception of what & how SC is going about protecting their business.

I have read every single posting on this forum on this matter, and i haven't read anything that says sound choice doesn't have a right to pursue their property. No disagreement there. Again..preception.

I agree... although it is your right to form an opinion, whether in agreement or discontent.


Simply not true. Many innocent individuals have been faulsly accused, a few have had their suits dropped. Not one, not one single apology to these individuals by the sleps. Right now, if i were in virginia, and i owned a bar, and a kj asked me to start up karaoke, what do you think i would say to him? Already there is a 20% drop in available karaoke night spots in virginia already. have legitimate kj's doing business as usual? where? Sir, you are naive.

Naive... probably true, but we all have the same industry to protect, if we want to perpetuate the Karaoke business, that we all stand to lose, if piracy or bootlegging is allowed to prosper, and don't police our own...


NOT....and heres a news flash for ya. Neither are the majority of crooks. Concerned? of course. Not about the legality issue. But of the manner sound choice is using, costing a loss of jobs, and ruining the reputation of legal kj's. Sound choice does not want a single case to go to trial. They are in this for the money, and they have demostrated, they don't care who gets injustly accused. It is cheaper for an accused legal kj to settle, then to pursue his innocents, and reputation. Sound choice is counting on this.

I'm sure you are correct on this assumption, simple warning labels, and chain letters, wouldn't stop the mass production of bootleggers, or the illegal sharing by ignorant KJ's, or the purchase of that unlicensed copy of the Eagles cdg. They (SC) have drawn a line in the sand, and I am not so sure that they are not prepared to go to court if and when the cases involved justify a court action to recoup any perceived lost revenue. There will be some innocent KJ's involved, who should be able to satisfy the court. "Innocent until proven guilty", if you choose to take the stand in your defense. We all have the right to a fair trial, and face our accuser.

I personally don't own that many sound choice disc. I will say they are actually no better then chartbuster, music maestro or pocket songs. They do the job. However, sound choice does not pay anymore for rights to a song, studio time, duplicating, recording gear, musicians then chartbuster, or any of the other top karaoke manus. And the other CDG manufactures have something sound choice no longer has now. Thats class, and respect of the karaoke community. This is of their own choosing...sadly

This is sounding more like a KIA {A} form letter the more i read it and reply to this.

Your stance on the K.I.A. {A} is documented and understood... I think their purpose has been more than slightly misconstrued, and with their teaming up with Sound Choice, Stellar, the Sleps, etc. has poisoned the effect that an internal "Karaoke Police" could have in helping to straighten out the business end for the legitimate KJ's.

Sound Choice again, in my opinion, " is or was " one of the best producers of Karaoke cdg's... and this opinion is about quality and perception by this lowly KJ.

K.I.A {A} form letter? ... lol

No disagreement here...Show me a posting on this forum, where someone suggest sound choice sit still for this? please. It's not the pursuit the legit kj's object to..it's the method, and the damage caused by this method. The loss of clubs, the loss of reputation, the bad name this is giving the karaoke industry as a whole. I do this as a hobby. And i'll tell ya...the ripple effect is already starting where i'm at. I predect, clubs will be going to DJ's, single accoustic guitar acts, small combos' piano singalongs, comedy acts, pool tables, video games. And...we have the shoddy messy tactics of the sleps to blame.
Don't come crying to me rikkie.

Blame the bootleggers, and pirates. The Slep's method is probably not the best, if they are falsely accusing the legitimate KJ's, then their birddog's that are informing their legal eagles, are at fault, and should be taken out in the alley, and sternly talked to...lol

Let's ask the DJ's, single accoustic guitar acts, small combos, piano sing alongs, comedy acts, and maybe include the jukebox industry, and small time bands, what they think of the Karaoke Industry. Ouch!

It's the Karaoke Industry, that wants to coexist or compete with these proven forms of bar and nightclub entertainment, and if the Karaoke Industry can't or won't see the harm that has been done by the bootlegger's or pirates, and we don't weed them out internally (the word snitch comes to mind) by legal precedents, and court action, then we only have ourselves to blame!



It's not legal action actually..it's the threat of a legal action. Big difference there. If you think for one minute sound choice is going recoup any substatial lost profits by taking a few kj's and bars to court, and making them settle for 6 grand, then you arenaive. Sound choice is trying to make examples of these poor slobs, and nothing more. And...don't be surprised, when someone holds sound choice to task, and wins... KJ's don't have deep pockets, but the bar owners do...and i can hardly wait. Sound choice stepped on the wrong toes there. The club owners hold the purse strings for the entire karaoke industry..hang on for the ride of your life.

If the threat of a court action is all it takes, then the warning on the jewel case about unlicensed use would have sufficed... it didn't, so the next step is legal action...

Bar Owner's pockets are not as deep either right now, if they were at all... That is why they will be the one's looking for the precedents that these cases invoke, and will act with a two-edged sword once the legalities of the issue have been thrust in their face, and they must decide whether a KJ is legal or not, and if it's worth pursuing in a court of law...



Wrong, a boycott of sound choice will also hurt the retailers who legally sell sound choice disc, also any future legal download sites. Also legit kj's. I am a legal operating kj. If there were a boycot of sound choice. I would out of respect for my fellow kj's also not purchase or even play any sound choice disc. And if you think i'm a minority, again...you are naive. I also predict, because of the actions of sound choice, the KIA{A}, the slep costopo, that the download part of sound choice, although i wish their endevour a complete success. Will Ultimatly be unprofitable. Kj's..myself included, by all this confusion alone...will not feel safe downloading anything. Right now, i say over 80% of ALL kj's have absolutly no idea what is a legal download site, or if there actually are any. How the sleps will over come all this mass confusion they have started, is anyone's guess. But i betcha, it will show in profits. Perhaps the slep clan can take all the download sites out there to court to? think so? As i read the majority of forums, and have KJ & dj friends in many states, and hear even way up here. Sound choice is digging their own grave.
Again......remember that perception thing i mentioned earlier? Confusion, rumors, misinformation, threats of law suits, club owners dropping karaoke. It's happening as i type. yep..... {shakes his head and sighs}

Noted, and I agree with almost all of this assumption... and I am not an employee of the KIAA. (Sorry Dale!)