The Lawsuits Have Started In Virgina

[muzicman144]

Originally Posted by billyo

i don't think they will, in my opinion, private clubs are for members only, it's like playing in your own house, unless they are invited.

I would tend to disagree with this statement. ASCAP/BMI?SESAC, etc. has no problem getting their money request in, and, no problem sitting in to hear what is played. A private club does not license illegal acts, IF, these suits prove to have merit.
I haven't seen a private club in my day that an invite was a problem at all. Some are strict, most have no door checkers, nor do they check membership cards. But sueing military clubs such as the Amercan Legion, VFW's etc. is just not a good publicity stunt at anytime, especially during a time of war or conflict (war is war no matter how it is worded)
I believe private clubs are targets just as open to the public clubs are. JMHO
muzicman144

[billyo]

Originally Posted by muzicman144

I would tend to disagree with this statement. ASCAP/BMI?SESAC, etc. has no problem getting their money request in, and, no problem sitting in to hear what is played. A private club does not license illegal acts, IF, these suits prove to have merit.
I haven't seen a private club in my day that an invite was a problem at all. Some are strict, most have no door checkers, nor do they check membership cards. But sueing military clubs such as the Amercan Legion, VFW's etc. is just not a good publicity stunt at anytime, especially during a time of war or conflict (war is war no matter how it is worded)
I believe private clubs are targets just as open to the public clubs are. JMHO
muzicman144

American Legion , VFW is in my opinion not really a private club,since they will sell drinks/food to the public,you could get in to those places as long as you know someone ,which i used to go and i am not a member of the org. i play in a country club which has sec. guard right by the gate and your name has to be listed in what they call guests list,or was invited by a member and still have to have your name on the list. a friend who was supposed to help me out set up my gears at one time tried to get in and they woudnt let him in , till i asked the club mgr. to let him in and put his name on the list.

[muzicman144]

[quote=billyo;98675]American Legion , VFW is in my opinion not really a private club,since they will sell drinks/food to the public,you could get in to those places as long as you know someone ,which i used to go and i am not a member of the org.

The charter of the VFW or American Legion does not allow purchases by non members. The are required to have a member sign them in and they still cannot make a purchase. None that i know of sell food or drinks to the public as it's charter bylaws do not allow this, except on special designated events.
As you and i know well, these restrictions are ignored quite often, yet, they ARE private clubs. You can get into any club if you know someone, which i'm sure KIAA or the Slepps could arrange to get into your private club date without a problem.
They real answer is to avoid buying a Sound Choice Product. Hit them where they are trying to hit you!!!!
muzicman144

[billyo]

Originally Posted by billyo

American Legion , VFW is in my opinion not really a private club,since they will sell drinks/food to the public,you could get in to those places as long as you know someone ,which i used to go and i am not a member of the org.

Originally Posted by muzicman144

The charter of the VFW or American Legion does not allow purchases by non members. The are required to have a member sign them in and they still cannot make a purchase. None that i know of sell food or drinks to the public as it's charter bylaws do not allow this, except on special designated events.
As you and i know well, these restrictions are ignored quite often, yet, they ARE private clubs. You can get into any club if you know someone, which i'm sure KIAA or the Slepps could arrange to get into your private club date without a problem.
They real answer is to avoid buying a Sound Choice Product. Hit them where they are trying to hit you!!!!
muzicman144

a friend of mine played at one of the VFW's at one time and i was able to get in and bought a few drinks, and i also know that they have diff. menu's on diff. days,but anyway that's true all the KJ's should stop buying SC, hit them where it hurts

[ddouglass]

Originally Posted by billyo

American Legion , VFW is in my opinion not really a private club,since they will sell drinks/food to the public,you could get in to those places as long as you know someone ,which i used to go and i am not a member of the org. i play in a country club which has sec. guard right by the gate and your name has to be listed in what they call guests list,or was invited by a member and still have to have your name on the list. a friend who was supposed to help me out set up my gears at one time tried to get in and they woudnt let him in , till i asked the club mgr. to let him in and put his name on the list.

I beg to differ with you. Most American Legions and VFW do limit who can come in and they usually know who their members are. Members can bring in a guest, but they have to be with that member and cannot enter on their own. Not all American Legions and VFW serve drinks and some who do will only sell to their own members and not to members from other posts.
The VFW I play at is one of the exceptions and is open to the local populace only because we are one of three (used to be two) clubs in the local area. This is not the case in the larger towns around us. By the way Musicman144, VFW National does not even want to hear anything about the canteen most posts have. It is like they want to stick their heads in the sand. The Bylaws that set down the rules are locally produced and are sent to National just to make sure the legal wording is correct.
All that said I know Musicman is correct that the music organizations have no problem getting in any club to check licenses for things like jukeboxes, TV and radio usage. I doubt that the KIAA would have any problem either.

[billyo]

i don't dis-agree with you guys,i've only been in one of the VFW's, i came in with my KJ friend who was playing there at that time, and i didnt have any problems getting drinks ( probably being nice? )..tell you what i'm going to call my friend and i will ask her to make sure ..

[billyo]

sorry guys, i was wrong,it's not the VFW nor the American Legion, it's the Moose Club

[RandyMcCharles]

I am finding it pretty easy to stop buying SC products as they are hardly producing anything new and have discontinued most (if not all) of their custom disk outlets. Most of what I have bought recently is from UK producers: ZOOM, SBI, etc.

[Musicman51]

Dale is right...i've been doing karaoke at the Americian Legion up here for going on 6 years now. Just try walking in alone and not be a member. They will nail you before you even reach the bar. We have more security, then any eagles, moose, or elks club i've ever played in. Infact, guest at our american legion up here, even though they are signed in, cannot go to the bar and order a drink. The person who signed them in has to do the ordering and paying. We do have open food night to the public, but NO alcoholic drinks are sold, also during the public bingo games, water and pop only....

[capnvic]

Originally Posted by ddouglass

I beg to differ with you. Most American Legions and VFW do limit who can come in and they usually know who their members are. Members can bring in a guest, but they have to be with that member and cannot enter on their own. Not all American Legions and VFW serve drinks and some who do will only sell to their own members and not to members from other posts.
The VFW I play at is one of the exceptions and is open to the local populace only because we are one of three (used to be two) clubs in the local area. This is not the case in the larger towns around us. By the way Musicman144, VFW National does not even want to hear anything about the canteen most posts have. It is like they want to stick their heads in the sand. The Bylaws that set down the rules are locally produced and are sent to National just to make sure the legal wording is correct.
All that said I know Musicman is correct that the music organizations have no problem getting in any club to check licenses for things like jukeboxes, TV and radio usage. I doubt that the KIAA would have any problem either.

DDouglas is right, as an officer and member of an American Legion post, I would have to abide by all rules and regulations pertaining to guests. I saw the court documents for the Virginia case, if anyone wants to read it let me know and I will post the link....I know that outside of Ron, several of my other KJs are extremely concerned....

[ddouglass]

Originally Posted by capnvic

DDouglas is right, as an officer and member of an American Legion post, I would have to abide by all rules and regulations pertaining to guests. I saw the court documents for the Virginia case, if anyone wants to read it let me know and I will post the link....I know that outside of Ron, several of my other KJs are extremely concerned....

Please post that link. It would be very interesting to see exactly what they are claiming.

[capnvic]

Originally Posted by ddouglass

Please post that link. It would be very interesting to see exactly what they are claiming.

I attached the complaint as a PDF document. There is some very interesting if not frightening aspects of this lawsuit.

[RandyMcCharles]

I like the description of how unlicensed use damages the industy for both producer and legitimate KJ. The problem I see is in point 94. "investigators observed Defendants benefiting from unauthorized, counterfit copies". The document seems to imply that all HDs are illegal (point 76) but this will never stand. Courts have already ruled that purchasers have the right to change formats. The defendants will have to produce original disks to show that they are legitimate. Then will then be a battle in court about 1-to-1 format transfer that is probably what Sound Choice is really after. Sound Choice will say that just because a KJ produces original discs doesn't mean that his HD is the only copy and the disks are stored away. This will be a mess. If the jury has any smarts they will say that the vendors product is unmanagable and that the only should be on Sound Choice to make their product less priratable or find other means to encourage licensed use.
I feel very sorry for the legitimate KJs who are being put through this process. They are the sacraficial lambs who are being used to bring the HD debate back to court.

[muzicman144]

It will be very hard to prove these cases as no evidence has been taken other than the plaintiff's "eyes". Any illegal files or hard drives are easily concealed and replaced by a legal copy.
I sincerely believe this is just a follow up on the first letter Sound Choice sent out threatening the venues that hire KJ"s. They openly state that if one who is accused pays $6500., they will be dropped from the lawsuit. This is just EXTORTION under the guise of legitimacy.
Boycott Sound Choice and Stingray. Remember SC sold out to Stingray, who's owner just happens to be kin. This allows Stingray to operate as Sound Choice did, but now Sound Choice can chase these lawsuits forever without fear of a KJ boycott as they no longer produce CDG's. But, remember, Stingray, (aka Sound Choice) is still under the Slep family management, and comes forth like a virgin with no dog in the fight. Bull Crap!!!!!
Boycott Both Companies and any company or organization the Sleps are associated with.
muzicman144

[Rockrz]

The VFW Halls around here have no such policy that is actually being enforced.

'Round here, if you can crawl up to the bar and you got money (or a good credit / debit card) then they'll serve ya!

[ddouglass]

I am going to bet that if you walk into a VFW Hall drunk and staggering that they would NOT serve you. I know because I help enforce this in my VFW. VFW does not go against state law or they won't be in the alcohol business long and no state that I know of doesn't enforce this.
If they don't enforce it then they are opening themselves to massive lawsuits when that drunk leaves and kills someone or themselves.

[Rockrz]

I was joking around about the "crawling up to the bar" part

I was just saying that where we are at, they serve anyone
who walks in regardless of if they are members or not, or if
they are with a member or not.

I've been in quite a few of these places in Texas and only
once did I have someone ask to see my ID and that was
back when I was young and they were just making sure
I was old enough to drink

[ddouglass]

Many of the VFW's, especially those in smaller towns or out in the county, do allow other than members to come in. Ours does too. In our case we opened it up after 1 of the 2 bars in the area closed up. If we had to depend on our small membership then we would barely be able to pay the utility bills and the loan every month. By allowing others to come in we have enough in our coffers to be able to help provide for the our area in times of disaster, like Hurricane Ike, as well as being able to provide community service.