Smoking Venue And Hoster

[marklwood]

Originally Posted by Musicman51

"I could have a weight limit and not violate any discrimination laws."
Marklwood, i'm not sure what part of the country you are from, or who your legal advisor is. Ever heard of a discrimminatory class action law suit? Gay folks are also not a protected class of people. But i dare you to hang a sign on your establishment that says no gays allowed. Good luck with that one.

Actually the country as a whole has already proved that gays are not a protected class. How many states either don't allow, or outright criminalize gay marriage? Sounds like discrimination to me. But I wouldn't give up my Tuesday night "Boys" for anything. Some of the best customers I have. The reason you think they are a protected class is that even though they are a minority, they are not afraid to stand up for themselves.

As far as fat people, the airlines are a great example. The airlines will charge them for 2 seats. If the media happens to pick it up, they will apologize and offer some form of money or free tickets to make up for it. That is the difference between market driven pressure and discrimination.

I think I mentioned this before, but I hope you guys are not upset by my comments. I am passionate about my views on civil liberties, but I thoroughly enjoy a spirited debate on the topic.

Just to give you more fuel, I have a couple of other angles for you. How about building codes or health department/EPA as a reason to not allow hazardous chemicals in a building you may some day sell to someone else? Like lead paint, or a previous meth lab inside the building.

[muzicman144]

Mark, I, too, try to make a stand on civil liberties and I'm very anti government when it comes to regulating our lives. But, the truth is they are so imbedded in all facets of our lives that they have obtained the foothold to do as they please.
NOw they regulate your liquor sales, as a public place, they regulate your bar as to health regulations, they tell you how many customers you can have at one time, the list goes on and on with regulations you MUST follow as they ALLOW you to operate your "private" business. At any time, the powers to be could invoke ways and means to put you out of business if they wished.
No wonder private citizens who operate "private" business' are so upset. I'm on your side.
muzicman144

[marklwood]

The concept of a Health Dept started as an opt in program. It was really just a marketing concept to assure people that eating here was safe as opposed to eating somewhere that wasn't certified. The government just grabbed on and took control because no one opposed it.

[RandyMcCharles]

Mexico is less regulated. I prefer that even though it is 'buyer beware'. Regarding karaoke, there are 2 bars in Mazatlan I have found that I like and 1 that I dislike. The first 2 get my business the other does not. Neither does it miss my business because it consciously caters to locals and discourages tourists. What I like is they they choose to operate as it suits them rather than are required to operate as the gvt mandates.

[RIKKI TIKKI]

Originally Posted by RandyMcCharles

Mexico is less regulated. I prefer that even though it is 'buyer beware'. Regarding karaoke, there are 2 bars in Mazatlan I have found that I like and 1 that I dislike. The first 2 get my business the other does not. Neither does it miss my business because it consciously caters to locals and discourages tourists. What I like is they they choose to operate as it suits them rather than are required to operate as the gvt mandates.

Randy,

The Mexican Government has more laws and regulations than the average tourist realizes! The enforcement can be where you are noticing a little less pressure, and that is only because the municipalities are grossly undermanned. But, if you cross the line in a foreign country such as Mexico, as an American, Canadian, Japanese, or .... Citizen, you'll find a sharp distinction of differences that we sometimes take for granted, in the USA, or Canada!

Being a resident of a border town with all kinds of Mexican Heritage, I have seen the Latino Culture change about as fast as their American border cities. In a tourist area such as Mazatlan or Nogales, you will see little differences... but go to a non-tourist area, and you will find a totally different culture, along with the old Mexican traditions, and incredibly different values...

Back to the subject at hand... most all of Mexico allows for smoking in public, but each private business, can allow for the smoking/non-smoking segregation, that is the same as most of the USA, but there has been many businesses that have posted the non-smoking signs...

You say the bars in Mazatlan, that you prefer, vary in the way tourists are treated... I don't know if you are bi-lingual or not, but I would like to hear the conversations amongst the employees/staff once the tourists have gone back home, and they are left with the local residents... Most treat their clients like locals if they can see that they are bilingual, and respect their culture... if you are a "Gringo" and cannot speak the language, they will do what is necessary in order to get you to spend your American/Canadian dollars, and then ridicule you in the local tongue, once you are gone, whether it's the Bar Servers, Curio Shops, Restaurant Waiters, or Local Police.

Mazatlan is on the coast not far from Culiacan, which is the heart of the State of Sinaloa, which is the drug capital ( Also Produce Capital! ) of Mexico. If you get a chance, go to Culiacan, and see the difference between a commerce center, and a tourist trap... See the militia carrying machine guns through the public streets, and the federales who don't take any lip from anyone, and all those endless smiles, that are missing... and you'll see how the drug cartels have changed a country that didn't know better, and doesn't have the government manpower, to reverse the situation and protect its citizens, so they feel safe going out on the street at any time, day or night... to a smaller extent, we in Nogales, Arizona, have seen the same thing happening recently to our sister city of Nogales, Sonora, Mexico...

Tourists have been staying home because of the fear of being an innocent bystander when the drug cartels, and the federal police, start shooting without regard of the innocent people that have been caught in their crossfire... it's a way too frequent occurance in the Border Towns of Mexico, such as Tijuana, Nogales, Juarez, etc.

But for an enpoverished country like Mexico, the tourist trade will probably take a back seat to drug trafficking, since an Uzi will make you more money than a pina colada! They used to say that if you don't go looking for trouble in Mexico, that you won't find it... but that's not exactly the truth anymore!

[RandyMcCharles]

Great info. I should have been more clear. By "Mexico is less regulated" I was referring to bars and restuarants in regard to smoking, entertainment, hours of operation, no shirt no service, noise loudness, etc. The get to set more of their own policies than their counterparts north of the border do.
Perhaps I should also have mentioned that the liquor manufacturers behave like mob cartells, breaking legs if the bar owners sell a competitor's product. I was also told that Mexico requires foreign owners to have a Mexican business partner (who usually does little more than collect a salary).
I also recognize that in tourist towns like Mazatlan that the posted price is the tourist price and that locals (or those who pass for locals) often get a lower price.
The one karaoke bar I found that I don't like was very blatant in favoring local regulars. The KJ knew them by name and continually rearranged the rotation moving tourist slips backwards. Not that there were many tourists as like us, no repeat business.
The other 2 bars were very friendly, with locals and repeat tourists in abundance and everyone treated fairly. They got our repeat business last year and will get it again next month.

[marklwood]

Originally Posted by RandyMcCharles

Perhaps I should also have mentioned that the liquor manufacturers behave like mob cartells,

Sounds just slightly worse than Missouri. If I want Jack Daniels, or any other particular brand of alcohol, beer included, I have one choice on where to get it. I can't even go to a liquor store and take advantage of a sale. In fact, I pay $3 more a case on average for a case of beer, than the regular price at Sam's club.

If I want some esoteric brand that doesn't have a distributor in my area, too bad. Not allowed to import it even though I live 5 miles from Kansas that may have it available.

It doesn't matter if they treat you like crap or not, you still have no other choice. I call that a government sponsored monopoly. What would you call it?